Ley de Lemas

Still has to pass the deputies and the Supreme Court.

I assume the deputies can be brought off in some way, not so sure about the Supreme Court.

To me it's all smoke and mirrors to try and diffuse what is really going on.

The government live day to day, they are reactive, not pro-active.
It's all about greed and power, nothing else is important including the people and country.

Must feel good to be so well liked...

There is some good news on the subject in the dr1 daily news today ( 4 Feb). Apparently the ball is being pitched to the Supreme Court. Another matter to consider is that the chief justice of the Supreme Court, Dr. Jorge Subero Isa was one of the five judges that in the 1996 election did what Dominicans thought could not be done -- organize fair and undisputed elections. So, Subero Isa is no neophyte to electoral matters. The team of five judges back then -- Cesar Estrella Sadhala, Aura Fernandez, Bonelly, Subero and (can't remember the fifth person or if they were only 4), were regarded as national heroes. Subero got the job of Supreme Court chief on the reputation that he built as part of that electoral dream team. I think that will be a factor in his decisions at the SCJ.

Does Hippo even need the "Ley de Hippo Preferential" anymore? He is the PRD nominee and is well along in the process of consolidating party power. Subervi's lambones are falling over themselves now trying to get in favor with Hippo. And the botellas are flying.

I don't think this law will pass now, since Hippo is the "official" candidate of his party. I believe, at this point, this is just a delaying tactic until his candidacy is registered with the electoral board. They (PPH) are publicly "supporting" this law, but I'm sure behind Ortiz Bosch's back they are asking the legislators to not pass it. Once Hippo is registered, then they will tell Ortiz that they tried but couldn't get it passed, so her only choice at that point is to support Hippo. Suvervi and his people are already bought out. He will be the candidate for the vice-presidency. Now What will Hatuey do? He will be neutral..."for the good of the party"
With the party "united" behind him and all the USD coming in over the next few months, I don't see leonel getting 51% of the vote in the first round...This spells trouble for the PLD as Hippo will then ask Estrella to repay the favor they did to him, by helping him become the candidate for the PRSC.

I can't see how Hippolito would garner more votes than other PRD pre-candidates (in a legitimate election) - if anything, the Ley de Lemas could screw him over.

I can see how they would want to use it to keep the party in power, but I don't think it would do Hippo any favours. In a legitimate election, that is.

i dont see how the preferential vote would make a difference to benefit hippo, and anyways isnt leonel sure he has more than the 50+1 needed to wipe out in the first round

....subervi doesn't know which way to turn, and he has done himself know favours by not taking a firm stand when discussing which side of the prd fence he should/should not be on.

it could have been argued as little as six months ago that he, along with milagros was the favourite to be the prd presidential candidate.

he was easily 'played' by the pph (money buys anything here) and he lost his chance of being that candidate when, also with milagros and esquea decided to side with hipolito in the convention that never happened.

hatuey warned them of this and they decided not to heed that warning - where are they now? - still holding on to the chance (although they won't admit it) of getting in the back door via the 'ley de lemas' or something similar.
i said when it first came about that the 'ley de lemas' will not come into effect, at least not for this election, but hipolito and his crew still keep leading people on, suggesting that it could happen. subervi and milagros are waiting and waiting, they still don't realise they lost their opportunities before christmas.

you people still write off hatuey - but i say, he is still, and i have said this before, the most influential politician left out there. hipolito cannot win without hatuey's support. the whole notion that the pph can brush hatuey aside is farcical. the prd is still the biggest party with the biggest number of loyal supporters, but they don't support hipolito - everybody knows it. most prd supporters would prefer not to vote than vote for hipolito or leonel (they definitely wouldn't vote for estrella, or anyone else).
so who do they look to now? - hatuey.

if hatuey makes an agreement with hipolito, which i highly doubt - hipolito will be in for another four years.
if hatuey asks his supporters to vote for leonel, which i highly doubt - leonel will be in for four years.
if hipolito stands down, or is declared not to be the prd presidential candidate, hatuey - who has already won one convention, will be the next president.

even if hatuey doesn't become president this time, his reputation has shot up so high that he is a very strong bet for the elections in 2008.

hipolito is proving to be far cleverer than people gave him credit for, but he is no match for hatuey.

leonel, as many people have suspected, has become so over confident in the run-up for these elections that he has completely lost the thread. his only hope of winning depends on hatuey.

hatuey will always be the one with the final say - it doesn't matter how many pph gorillas try to put the frighteners on everyone.

- by the way, if you hadn't noticed i support hatuey.

bochinche said:

by the way, if you hadn't noticed i support hatuey.

Click to expand...

Why?

bochinche said:

.... - by the way, if you hadn't noticed i support hatuey.

Click to expand...

Yes, I did notice. And I'm suprised.

Must be because of everything he's done for his hometown of Cotui...Let me see...hmmm...I guess that would be a big fat NOTHING!

That's Why I am Curious, Too.

All this political intriguqe and insider stuff is fascinating. But that doesn't constitute a reason to vote for someone. I am always amused in the U.S. when politicians, especially in primaries do that. "We're winning, vote for me!"

I know why I would like to see Leonel elected. It's because he's the only one of these folks here who seem to have any idea of what it takes to run a country and has articulated as well as demonstrated those things.

So why is anybody for Hatuey other than that he's not Hippolito?

XR

XanaduRanch said:

I know why I would like to see Leonel elected. It's because he's the only one of these folks here who seem to have any idea of what it takes to run a country and has articulated as well as demonstrated those things.

So why is anybody for Hatuey other than that he's not Hippolito?

XR

Click to expand...

wrong....very wrong.
i admit, things were not as bad as present, but leonel did not show what it takes to run a country during his four year term.
if we are going for the lesser of two evils, i would, of course support leonel, but i don't believe he is capable of doing anything in the next four years, other than blame everything on hipolito.
in fact, i don't think he is even capable of winning, solo, against hipolito.
hatuey is the only one who will stop the rot - he is still the only one who has not been bought, and the only one who is strong enough to stand up to hipolito.
that would all change if hatuey suddenly makes an agreement with hipolito, but i have faith this will not happen.

don't ask me what his policies are, who knows what any of the candidates' policies are (prd, pld or prsc), but with hatuey there will be no hipolito, eligio, guido, sjb, sanchez baret or pph. if that isn't a good enough reason to support him then nothing is.

- in fact, if we are lucky, he might just throw in his mob connections to help boost the economy as well

Wow. Stunning!

bochinche said:

... wrong....very wrong ...

Click to expand...

This is a spectacular post. Folks, read this and see where the problem lies. This needs to be made into a flyer and distributed widely.

● "hatuey is the only one who will stop the rot - he is still the only one who has not been bought, and the only one who is strong enough to stand up to hipolito. that would all change if hatuey suddenly makes an agreement with hipolito" I'd say that would change it, Yep. He's not been bought by your information but so he's available for sale? Sounds familiar. No wonder he's in the PRD then.

● "i admit, things were not as bad as present" Sort of like in the same way that having a cabin on the QEII is only slightly more desireable than steerage class passage on the Titanic's maiden voyage?

● "leonel did not show what it takes to run a country during his four year term." Having been in and out of the country much during that time, and living here at the end of his term, I can only ask what medications you take and is a prescreption required? What has Hatuey demonstrated that shows he posses the skills that you believe are lacking in Leonel?

● "but with hatuey there will be no hipolito, eligio, guido, sjb, sanchez baret or pph. if that isn't a good enough reason to support him then nothing is" Looks like you argued yourself right back around the circle to 'nothing is'. Please explain what post you expect Hippo and these others would be offered in a second Leonel administration.

● "if we are lucky, he might just throw in his mob connections" I assume by 'mob connections' you are referring to connections to other people in addition to those in the current administration. Please explain why 'mob connections' are a more important tool to right the Dominican government and economy than solid economic policy.

● "don't ask me what his policies are, who knows what any of the candidates' policies are (prd, pld or prsc)" I already did. Another reason that Baldy is president. Policies are not important here apparently, mob connections are. No need to actually know what the man intends to do. And if you have no idea what Leonel's policies are please explain how that qualifies you to make a statement about why his plans will have no effect.

This is not how a stable democracy is created and survives bochinche. You have a few months to study, yet. All is not lost.

Tom aka XR

XR: You see what I mean...How's the country supposed to ever change? Here's a perfect example of how some dominicans (Yes...I'm one) think. Let me repeat who Hatuey is for those who forgot...This guy is from my hometown. He's never done jack s$&% for his hometown. This guy is a remnant from the times the PRD was in power back in 1984.
Let me tell you how honest this guy is...with a small salary (I assume) this guy manages to own Caribe Tours (The largest bus company in the DR)...talk about stretching the peso...Maybe he can do the same for the economy.
Stuff like this just burns my ass!!! How can anybody think that if the PRD stays in power (no matter who the president is) anything is going to change? Aren't the same people going to keep their jobs? For god's sake how blind can we be?
Actually right now I DO support Decamps, because he's antagonizing Hippo. I keep hopping they destroy themselves as a party.
I need a drink...

i can't believe i'm doing this.

in reply to xr's post;
- of course he's available for sale. show me a dominican who says he isn't and i'll show you someone who's looking for a bit more money. however, i have faith in hatuey in that he will not be bought by the pph.
- things were not as bad as present, in that they were not as bad as present. why do you need to make an analogy about cruise ships?
- i take ranatidina. why you wanted to ask me that, just because you were in and out of the country a few times astounds me.
leonel and hipolito are the only living politicians besides sjb with any presidential experience. why would you want to rule out anyone just because they haven't been able to demonstrate their presidential skills yet? leonel is a wuss - hatuey has shown that he isn't.
if leonel wins, hipolito, eligio, guido, sjb, sanchez baret and the pph will be back in four years. if hatuey wins they will disappear (not in the mob sense, i hasten to add).

Please explain why 'mob connections' are a more important tool to right the Dominican government and economy than solid economic policy.

Click to expand...

- do you really think the economic growth we experienced in the 90's was due to policy? why do you think we are in the top ten list of countries that benefit from money laundering?

you are right about one thing, policies are not important here, but whether you like it or not this is about as close to a stable democracy as you are ever going to get in the dominican republic.

a memorable quote from a couple months back....

bochinche said:

.....
well, i hope he is, because i am well in with hatuey and i want my piece of the pie! ha!
.....

Click to expand...

bochinche, which pie....and who much of it have you been promised? I hope I am mis-interpretting you cause if I am not then ......tsk....tsk....tsk

Actually ...

bochinche said:

... why do you need to make an analogy about cruise ships?

Click to expand...

I think the fact that you refer to the R.M.S. Titanic, given it's history, as a "cruise ship" pretty well explains your support of the P.R.D.

No point in going any further. Others reading this will probably understand, I hope. Please excuse me now. I have some deck chairs out by the pool I need to go rearrange.

Tom aka XR

Mondongo: Thanks...You cleared out the REAL reason he's with Hatuey. We, Dominicans deserve to have Hippo for 20 more years. Para muestra un boton...