Generators and inverters

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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Power problems aside, it is rare to hear comments about the environmental costs of having all those generators running non-stop for hours on end. The noise, the fuel consumption and the air pollution must have a collossal effect. I don't understand why so many homes and businesses have to run their generators for hours on end, instead of just long enough to charge their inverters. Doesn't that make more sense in every way? Fuel costs as well as the noise and fumes?

Having said that:

Does anyone have info on the pros and cons of an inverter vs a generator - in terms of health, safety and environmental costs?

It may seem clear-cut at first: the silent inverter which consumes no fuel as opposed to the noisy, smoke-belching and fuel-guzzling generator.

But - I have been told that inverters are potentially unhealthy, dangerous even, because they emit toxins. Is this true? Any details?

Chiri:smoke:
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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Don't Forget One IMPORTANT fact!

You know that clean electricity thet (Sometimes) arrives at your house??? Well it is generated somewhere,with those same diesel fumes that your neighbors'Plantas" produce! Remember,If you use your inverter for say 4 hours,you have to run your planta for a longer time to charge your batteries!Only "Golo" has those batteries that recharge for free! Cris Colon
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
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I don't follow, Cris, please clarify. The constant fumes pumping from the emergency plantas are additional to the fumes that occasionally waft from the power stations.

If everyone had inverters, and only used plantas when the inverters were in danger of being stretched to the limit (like now), wouldn't there be a reduction in the overall emission of fumes?

For the overwhelming majority of the time inverters are adequate back-ups for the shorter power cuts.

I still want to know what the other disadvantages are concerning inverters, if any.

Chiri
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
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MrMike said:
Mmmmph....mmmmmmph...(makes muffled noises through a gag)

I am not allowed to talk about inverters on this board until I take out a paid ad. Look for my ad next week.

Of course you can talk about inverters.
Any "real" info is always welcomed, so are your AD $$$ :)
 

gringo in dr

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May 29, 2003
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Some businesses can't run on invertors. Just off the top of my head, hair salons. Try running a couple of hair driers, the hot water heater and the A/C during the summer off of an invertor.
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
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Point taken about businesses that depend on hairdryers and other equipment which consumes a lot of energy. It is possible however to endure a couple of hours with fans instead of A/C.

But hot water? In a Dominican hair salon? That I have yet to experience.

Chiri
 

mondongo

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Jan 1, 2002
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Chiri, the only way to have a material impact on the environment is to use solar or wind power. Invertors burn up fossil fuels when generating the electricity to charge the battery. Fuel cells burn up fossil fuels when generating the needed hydrogen. Generators burn up gasoline. Generators just happen to burn the fossil fuels right in front of you, while the charging of a battery burns the fuels at the power plan. However, generators are still a little worse because they are less efficient than the power plant.

To make invertors enviromentally friendly, you would need to charge the batteries with solar or wind power.
 

XanaduRanch

*** Sin Bin ***
Sep 15, 2002
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Almost Got It!

What do the wind turbines, and solar panels charge to store their 'clean' energy again? Lead-acid batteries.

These batteries are not very environmentally friendly. Very posinous materials inside, and the manufacturing processes are hard on the environment as well. Most landfills in the states will not accept these batteries, they have to disposed of under special supervision to make sure the posinous lead, zinc, and other materials does not leach into the ground water.

Do you think DOminicans despose of these in an environmentally safe way once EdeNada has blown them up? Not me.

Then there's the solar panels. Galium arsenide in most cases. Silicon composites in others. Arsenic, silicon. Naturally occuring but still posions,poisons concentrated in the manufacturing process by man to create the product. Newer materials are just as lethal. Making them release many harmful contaminents, and old cells can be just as lethal if not disposed of properly.

There is no such thing as a free lunch! Energy, costs. Name your poison, it's necessary. But don't fall of that high horse when talking about 'clean' energy from solar cells, and windmills. It's a long way down.

Tom (aka XR)
 

lhtown

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Jan 8, 2002
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Near term perhaps the best solution would be to keep those generators tuned up and have programs to collect that waste oil and spent batteries. A lot of generators generate "gratuitous" pollution because they need new air filters or other maintenance. Of course, they also consume more fuel for the same reasons.
 

MrMike

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Mar 2, 2003
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Inverters are not really practical for heavy inductive loads - some things that are particularly taxing on inverters are: Hair dryers, Air conditioners (unless your name is Adrian or you fill the entire servants quarters of your Dominican house with batteries forget it) water heaters, electric ranges, irons etc. all are best left for when there is street power or a good generator is running. Of course there are inverter and battery solutions that can run these items without breaking a sweat but they are considerably more expensive than a solution that would allow you to run your TVs, Computer, lights and fan only.

With inverters the most dangerous thing (maybe the only dangerous thing I am aware of - aside from licking the transformer) is that the batteries should be somewhere where people aren't, preferably where there is good air circulation. (outside in a metal cage to keep them from getting stolen) They leak trace amounts of lead into the air that gets into your blood and causes lead poisoning. This is barely noticeable when they are new, but as they get older they can begin to leak quite a bit more - long before there is a noticeable difference in their functionality.

I did not believe this when I was first told and spent about 1.5 weeks in a small air conditioned office with a battey bank in the office with me. I had a splitting headache for the full week that went away on the weekend and came back monday. I figured it out and moved the batteries out - no more problem. I am sure that I am at least 5 IQ points dumber from this experience, but at least I can still read and write.

Well that's my .02 on health and safety, I don't claim to know much about the environment except most things I do probably screw it up somehow.
 

MrMike

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I have no direct experience with the gel batteries, I have heard that they are better in every way than lead acid batteries, but they are quite a bit more expensive.

I am working on you solar panels as we speak. (I mean as I am typing this)
 

XanaduRanch

*** Sin Bin ***
Sep 15, 2002
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I am offended.

MrMike said:
I am working on you solar panels as we speak. (I mean as I am typing this)
You mean you're ignoring my Alba as she's sitting right there in your office trying to give you money (OK, Hippo Monopoly Money right I know but?) just to work on a project for Rob?

Cancel my other 10 orders!

Tom (aka XR)
 

MrMike

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I have 2/3rds of my sales staff helping your Alba right now, I have checked on her 3 times to make sure she is treated well, even introduced her to my wife to make sure she has someone to talk to.
 

Tom F.

Bronze
Jan 1, 2002
699
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Mr. Mike,

Keeping batteries indoors always concerned me. When dealing with 1 panel, 1 battery systems, caging and roofing battery is too expensive and sometime the location of the panel requires it to be near the living room or a bedroom. We try to keep the distance between connections to the panel, control box, batteries and lights, tv radio; as short as possible. Sometimes we have stuck them up at the level of the top of the wall. I spent some time in our warehouse when we were charging 20-30 batteries at a time and it made me sick alright. Some of the guys in the warehouse didn't care but I shortly required them to do that out back in the open air.
 

mondongo

Bronze
Jan 1, 2002
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GaAs: this is expensive and rarely used in low cost applications such as in the DR (NASA uses it). Crystalline and polycrystalline silicon are the most widely used.

Batteries: what is worse for the environment: replacing/recycling a battery every few years, or burning several thousand gallons of gasoline?

Silicon: think sand, think glass. Silicon dioxide is not poisonous. True, manufacturing a solar panel made out of silicon does produce a lot of waste, but these panels last 20+ years. How much waste does it take to manufacture a diesel engine?

Solar and wind are not perfect, but over the long term, they are more eco-friendly than the alternatives.

Edited to add: some of the crystalline silicon panels are made from silicon that would have otherwise been thrown away by companies such as Intel.
 
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