Modern slavery in the DR- Haitians in the Bateys.

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Rapadou

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I've noticed how angry some are at the mention of a European Industrialist echoeing the word lazy with Dominican workers. Why hasn't anyone mention the plight of the Haitian Sugarcane Workers in the DR, Modern Slavery.

A people without a future, stuck in the bateys to only have the cycle continues. THeir kids not recognized by the government of the DR nor Haiti, a people without a homeland, a people without citizenship.

Indeed not only Haitians are placed in such miserable situations around the world. Dominicans are treated as invaders in Puerto Rico, so as undocumented aliens in the US, but none in such harsh conditions.

Working basically for food, working in some of the worse living/working conditions known to mankind since slavery. All these so called humanitarians, why have they all remained mumb on the issue, including the haitian government.

this modern slavery must cease and We as human beings ought to denounce it whether Dominican or Haitian-DOminicans. Something has got to stand up for these voiceless people............
 

Talldrink

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Jan 7, 2004
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What are some of your ideas to start helping this situation? Im not here to debate you on this issue, I agree with you 100%. I just choose not to start a post like this w/o any alternatives b/c then I would sound like I'm just whining.

It is a very sad situation indeed, but it is such a large and vast one as well. It is mostly up to the owners of these fields to have some heart and try to change it from within. Of course, this will need a miracle and we all know Jesus left the earth a few thousand years ago...
 

Chirimoya

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Rapadou, it should not be news to you that there are many organisations dedicated to working with and lobbying for Haitians in the DR. MUDHA, Batey Relief Alliance, Anti Slavery International, Haiti Support Group, Jesuit Refugee Service - to name just a few.

The sad truth is - and this does not by any means justify the conditions they live and work in - that however bad the bateyes are, given the choice between remaining there and returning to Haiti...

Chiri
 

Rapadou

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Good Question.

First of all these people could use anything right now. I raised the issue that they're not recognized by neither the Haitian nor the Dominican Governments. How about giving citizenship to these people. How about legalizing these workers, so that somehow they can seek work elsewhere if that's they're liking. I am sure many on the mainland wouldn't support such initiatives, fearing their jobs would be taken away or these people becoming a political power.

How about an amendment abolishing this modern slavery, how about it?

Haitians have contributed so much for as long as I can remember to the economy of the DR it is time that they're offsprings reap the benefits of their forefathers. Time to put up or shut for both the Haitan and Dominican governments. Something has got to give, things cannot continue like this.

We all know the contributions that Haitian have contributed to the economy, arts, etc.... heck whenever I go back to the DR, buying paintings are some of my hobbies and we all know that such field is dominated by Haitian artist. They've been taken for a ride, their paintings bought from them for cheap to be sold to tourists off the many resorts of Puerto Plata or Punta Cana for example..

These governments ought to stand up and denounce the living conditions of these people, and we know that at the present times, it's something we can dream about. Given all these obstacles I will not cease to talk about it. Hoping someone somewhere will decide to take action against such inhumane conditions.

LEGalize them, I say LEGALIZE THEM!!!!!!
 

Rapadou

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Chirimoya said:
Rapadou, it should not be news to you that there are many organisations dedicated to working with and lobbying for Haitians in the DR. MUDHA, Batey Relief Alliance, Anti Slavery International, Haiti Support Group, Jesuit Refugee Service - to name just a few.

The sad truth is - and this does not by any means justify the conditions they live and work in - that however bad the bateyes are, given the choice between remaining there and returning to Haiti...

Chiri

Some choices you've given them, why should they return to Haiti, some of them were born there and know nothing of Haiti, let alone knowing any family members there. Why not remain there with a slightly better situation. Why doesn't the government step in, it's not like most of these people are just Haitians. What about their offsprings, kids born in the DR, treated as third class non-citizens, not to say untouchables.

What if the US decided to deport all children born to undocumented citizens. WOuldn't you think lots of people would take to the streets and rally against this government. But in the DR for decades this practice of denying citizenship to children born of Haitian parents have been denied their citizenships, yet all these organizations you've mentioned haven't been able to crack or better the living conditions of these people.

Although they were set out to help these voiceless people someway somewhere these organizations have lost the fight. I believe only the Dominican government can help in this situation, by passing Laws to stop these inhumane conditions and possibly giving citizenship to those born on the land and legalizing the rest.

until them anything else will be considered uncivilized, modern slavery I tell you.
 

Talldrink

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So if the DR legalizes the Haitians, what need will there be for Haiti (the country)? Also, what are your suggestions on helping the Dominican's own problems right now - as if they dont have enough on their plates.

Imagine if the US decided to legalize ALL illegal aliens residing here right now, there will be chaos, the seas would flood with people trying to get over here. As if any country needed more problems...You legalize one, you will have to do them all, and then what?

This is your solution?
 

Rapadou

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Talldrink said:
So if the DR legalizes the Haitians, what need will there be for Haiti (the country)? Also, what are your suggestions on helping the Dominican's own problems right now - as if they dont have enough on their plates.

Imagine if the US decided to legalize ALL illegal aliens residing here right now, there will be chaos, the seas would flood with people trying to get over here. As if any country needed more problems...You legalize one, you will have to do them all, and then what?

This is your solution?

When I said to legilize them, of course there must be some quotas set up. You cannot legalize every tom, dick and harry. The government must bring forth and which criterias these people will be legalize or given citizenship. For example it could be that people who can prove that they're second generation people born on the DR side of the island. I am sure they'll find documents to prove that their families have been on the bateys for such period of time.

The Government can set things up a way that these Owners wouldn't employ those that are considered illegal or newly arrived in the country. This is not something that will be sample to do. It is something that must be researched on given much thoughts.

As for the Haitian government, they must seat down with the DR government to come up with a way of containig illegals from going on the other side, as if that's possible.

My question is to you, should these people's conditions remain the way it has for decades. BOth governments need to step in and do something about this, just like they were the ones who started it all. They were the ones who benefitted from it from the get go. THey signed the contracts with these companies to create this mess, and they must be held accountable to come up with a solution.

Given all the problems both countries have, it still doesn't give them a cop-out to deal with this continuing problem. Obviously, this must come to an end soon. I would hate to see these people in these same conditions 5 or 6 more decades wouldn't you agree.
 

Pib

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Jan 1, 2002
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Let me see if I get it... We Dominicans can either blame Puerto Rico for enticing us with their superior working and living conditions or we can accept that we have screwed it big time, and that we are all partly (some most than others) to blame for all our brothers and sisters that became food for the sharks.

You are been naive. Haiti's problem is not the Dominican Rep. Actually Haiti would be much worse if they didn't have us here. Please let us see your rebuttal. So, I say, yes, we may not have treated them very nice in some/many cases, mea culpa, but what other choice did they have? Go back to Haiti?

How about fixing Haiti? Tell us what you are doing, and what we can do to help. Finding scapegoats is so 60's!
 

Narcosis

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Dominican constitution does not recognize children born in the country to non-citizens for good reason.

The Dominican Republic gained independence from Haitian rule and cultural influence and has the right to keep it that way. All this talk about blending the 2 countries under the excuse that Haitians are not treated well here is BS.

A well know "expert" on Haitian issues regularly states on t.v. that there are 2 million Haitians living in the D.R.. That is about 1/4 of the population. To even think of giving these people citizenship is againts the basic fabric Duarte based this nation on. So forget about it.

It is also false that the Domincan sugar industry was built on the backs of Haitians. Actually the first migrant workers in the fields here were from Antigua, St. Kitts, St. Martin and yes even from Puerto Rico..That is why we have Cocolos, the English speaking people in and around San Pedro de Macoris. Haitains just fell in the mix as the majority as people from other islands no longer came here to work.

I have nothing againts Haiti or it's people but it is about time we stop blaming the DR for these peoples woes.

Wealthy nations need to step-in and actually help Haiti and stop pointing fingers.
 

Dominican Tony

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Feb 16, 2004
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I agree with you Pib and other members that see the problem starts in Haiti, thus just to refrase, the Dominican Republic cannot be left alone to take care of the massive exodus of Haitians coming into our territory, the Dominican government has said it over and over again for the international community to start helping Haiti. Us Dominicans are doing our part to bring the D.R. forward something that can be seen throughout the country, but Haiti's current state affects our progress especially when so many Haitians come over to our side (a good example was when a good amount of the millions of pesos allocated to our hospitals was used towards haitians coming over for medical assitance on our side, something i am not against but at the same time argue because that's the Haitian government responsiblity to provide medical assitance to it's citizens among other basic needs to survive) that example shows that the D.R. has helped haitians at least more then they are helped in their own country, now one can argue Dominicans in Puerto Rico, similar situation yet not as crucial as the latter ......Pa'lante nuestra patria y arriba la Republica Dominicana siempre!!!
 

Dominican Tony

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That's also true about the Dominican Constitution, something i support all the way, we are an independent country and have the right to establish what is right and what's wrong, based on the history of our country our fore-fathers made it known we will be the Dominican Republic and not ruled by another country....the D.R. received plenty of immigrants from other nations in the early 1900's (german jews, puerto ricans, african-americans from the south "u.s.a.", italians, spanish, among natives from other caribbean islands), contradicts to what was said that only haitians have build this country? makes no sense to me. :sleep:
 

Talldrink

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Exactly, if the Haitians worked so hard to build DR, then why arent they working so hard in their own lands? They arent worried about the physical state their side of the island is, let alone work to regain it. Im sorry, but there are many other DOMINICAN children starving for me to worry about legalizing 2 million more foreigners. Where is your plight for the Dominican poor and needy? Did you forget where you are posting?
 

El Jefe

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Jan 1, 2002
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Hippo's criteria for giving Haitians citizenship

$$$ votes $$$ votes $$$ votes...Am I cynical?
 

Rapadou

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Pib said:
Mod's note:

If there is the slightest name-calling in this thread, trust me, the padlock will not be used to close the thread only.[/QUOTE]

Using bully tactics to scare the poor guy huh! :hurt: OUCH!!!!!

I guess I am being threatened to walk a fine line or else, I may wear out my welcome in this place. Well, I am never been one to back down from a fight, not a legitimate one at that. Whenever I meet adversity I look it right in the eyes with no fear. However touchy this issue may be, I will not back down from it, because I believe it is a worthy one. And I will do it in the most respectable manners, my parents didn't raise me to be otherwise.

fear no man but the Almighty..................if I have to turn the other cheek, I will, but I will not back down from my principle beliefs. I will never compromise my beliefs, the rest is history.

Make a field slave a house slave and there's no end to his madness.

Actually, I will try to disappoint you my friend. I am not out to call anyone on here names. I am only standing up for principles and humane conditions. I am only trying to bring the issues of the voiceless to the table. I am in no way trying to disregard or lessen the plight of poor Dominican children all the while over exposing the plight of Haitians in the DR. Given the choice I am sure these poor Dominicans would rather die than be in the situation that my Haitian compadres are in the DR.

With that said, I never pointed any fingers at the Dominican government alone, no no no no both governments got involved to create this fine mess for the voiceless batey workers and they ought to held accountable for coming up with a solution.

And since when was I basing Haiti, as a nation since when was I basing our shortcomings on the Dominican government. The issue with the sugarcane workers was and is the only issue that I am trying to raise in this thread. And unless one's eyes are fooling them, my points were not that only Haitians have contributed to the advancements of the DR, little there is. I only mention that Haitians have contributed somewhat to the DR and very many aspects.

Unless one is an allusionist, the DR although not in a fine mess as Haiti is, the DR is not that better off either. I don't think any other country in the caribbean, besides cuba has produced more professionals at home and abroad than us. Our contributions to very many countries around the world, and mainly in Latin America has bypassed that of any in the caribbean.

I wouldn't be sitting here behind a computer trying to justify, the plight of my people if we as a people had done similarly in our country. Unfortunately, due to interference by outside forces, dividing us we haven't yet been able to solve such dilemmas. If and when we're able to bypass our differences and unite under our country, many in the caribbean will be biting their nails.

We were once declared the pearl of the caribbean and believe you and me, we can rise once again to such prominence, many are afraid of us rising to such feats. In the US, Haitians are far becoming a professional force to be reckoned with. As example, those of you who frequent the medical facilities in New York, Florida, Virginia, New Jersey to name a few I am sure have witnessed the tremendous amount of Haitian Doctors/Nurses not to mention other fields such as law, business etc.... We've yet to organized ourselves abroad as at home, wait til we learn to organize ourselves like others have.

I applaud the Dominicans living in the US, specifically in New York for the great job that they've done becoming a force politically, you ought to be commanded for it. As a Haitian-Dominican I feel proud of both of my heritage. By the way if you're wondering about my ancestry. My Grandparents from my mother's side were Dominican citizens who migrated to Haiti back in the early 1900's and settled there. Currently, I am trying to find my roots back in the DR, San Francisco De Macoris by the way, but that's another story.

The moral of the story is, both nations are to blamed for the plight of these workers because both set out and recruited them. If these workers are messed up, both nations are to be held accountable for it. And I am no way basing the plight of the sugarcane workers as the whole reason why Haiti has fell off the latter. Sooner much rather than later, this country will be a force to be reckoned with in the caribbean as it once was. Many of the Caricom nations deep down are afraid of that.

In the meantime for the sake of humanity stop this DOminican/Haitian madness. With that I would like to leave you guys with this ............................................... Be nice to the people you meet on your way up, because you might just meet them on your way down, a powerful phrase to live by. :smoke:
 
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Rapadou

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Talldrink said:
Exactly, if the Haitians worked so hard to build DR, then why arent they working so hard in their own lands? They arent worried about the physical state their side of the island is, let alone work to regain it. Im sorry, but there are many other DOMINICAN children starving for me to worry about legalizing 2 million more foreigners. Where is your plight for the Dominican poor and needy? Did you forget where you are posting?

With that said, I guess my statements about the contributions that Haitians have brought to the DR are all but illusions huh? I see.....................................................
 

Rapadou

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Narcosis said:
Dominican constitution does not recognize children born in the country to non-citizens for good reason.
The Dominican Republic gained independence from Haitian rule and cultural influence and has the right to keep it that way. All this talk about blending the 2 countries under the excuse that Haitians are not treated well here is BS.

A well know "expert" on Haitian issues regularly states on t.v. that there are 2 million Haitians living in the D.R.. That is about 1/4 of the population. To even think of giving these people citizenship is againts the basic fabric Duarte based this nation on. So forget about it.

It is also false that the Domincan sugar industry was built on the backs of Haitians. Actually the first migrant workers in the fields here were from Antigua, St. Kitts, St. Martin and yes even from Puerto Rico..That is why we have Cocolos, the English speaking people in and around San Pedro de Macoris. Haitains just fell in the mix as the majority as people from other islands no longer came here to work.

I have nothing againts Haiti or it's people but it is about time we stop blaming the DR for these peoples woes.

Wealthy nations need to step-in and actually help Haiti and stop pointing fingers.

What if for good reasons the US had decided not to recognize children born to non-citizens, can you only imagine. Certain job pools we would be kept out of, can you only imagine. A country build on the backbones of immigrants from all over the world, yet we would not be able to reap the benefits of our forefathers. What future could await us, can you imagine where we as immigrants would be right now. Who knows they might even try to deport us back home. Would this country be as great as it is without the contributions of immigrants (from all over the world). HOw insane and inhumane would that be huh!!!!!!!
 

Pib

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Rapadou...

Mod's note: You seem to have a persecution complex. The "do not call names" line was more in your protection than anything. The problem is that when a person feels persecuted even somebody extending a helping hand looks like an agressor. I encourage you to review your belief system in general.




The D.R. is not alone in his inmigration/citizenship beliefs. Actually many other countries are more stringent in their rules to become a citizen. But as you said, that is not the point.

Now, I ask you again, why are all these Haitian doctors contributing to the US society and playing armchair quarterbacks in DR politics and policies? Why aren't they in Haiti helping their brothers and sisters? Are the Haitian canefield workers tied to the land? Can they not return to Haiti whenever they want? I assume they do not want to.

TRUST ME. I have nothing against Haitians and Haiti, and I am all for improving the condition of the haitian WORKERS but I am sick and tired of all this bullet-dodging (in general, we have way too much of that here). Put your effort into helping Haiti first. Things will go from there.
 

Criss Colon

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This guy sounds like a Haitian,living in the USA,

..and bitching and moaning about the Haitians,both legal(if there is such a thing?) and illegal(My guess!) living in the DR!
Anyone who makes 3 posts in a row,without awaiting any replies,is just out to hear himself type! Cris Colon
 

JenniferDiaz

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Jan 31, 2003
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I was waiting for the Haitians.

"Modern slavery in the DR- Haitians in the Bateys", this is a good one to start.

When Haitians have very large families with no planning, no regards for the future of every new member, they born economic slaves. Their Haitians parents make them slaves. Then they have to cross the border to work for very low pay or die. What happens on RD with the Haitian workers is simple market economy. But as always, Haitians blame others for their own actions. Just look at Haiti, unrest.. and unrest... jobs can not be created like that. Now when it come to Talking and Blaming, that is the industry Haitians like you had desired to develop.
 
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