Coping with a influx of refugees

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
982
113
Yes, another Haiti thread. In DR Debates as a vote of confidence for a good forum, and to deter those who just vent their mindless hatred against Haiti and Haitians from ruining a constructive discussion.

One of the items in today's news is about the possibility - or likelihood - of a mass influx of refugees. The options for the DR authorities are:

A - hide head in sand and let refugees flood in unchecked, which is what happens when you have an insecure border policed by bribeable guards

B - work with international humanitarian organisations, some of which have already expressed willingness, to set up organised refugee camps in the border region.

There is a third option, which is that those camps could be set up in Haiti, which would be the best option for the DR, but there is a technicality in international humanitarian law which (IIRC) prevents major organisations like UNHCR from working with displaced people (the term for refugees who have not crossed an international border).

At the moment, unfortunately, the government here seems to be going for option A. I believe, that unless we are lucky and the situation calms down (fat chance) or the international community opts for the third option, we should be working towards B.

Not to say there are not drawbacks. The installation of refugee camps is likely to encourage more people to cross, motivated simply by hunger rather than political persecution. But at least the problem would be contained, the cost of feeding, clothing, housing and providing health and education would be footed by the international community. The refugees, if all is managed well, would be given incentives to return home once the situation has stabilised, rather than to trickle into the DR proper, with all the problems that implies.

There are even some positive aspects for the DR, in that the presence of camps and international aid workers can inject some dynamism into the local economy, much needed in those desolate and poverty stricken frontier zones. Many agencies have a policy of purchasing as many supplies and equipment as possible locally, and providing employment for locals on both the menial and professional level.

I am thinking aloud here, drawing knowledge on several refugee experiences I am familiar with, from Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Peru, Sudan, Zaire (now DRC) and Tanzania. Some though not all these experiences were positive, but the organisations involved came out of these situations with some lessons, which ought to be applied to the current crisis.

My question is - how do people think this could be best managed? How much chance is there of getting the international community to take the third option?

Chiri
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
982
113
Every case is different, depending on the country and the organisation in question. There will always have to be some liaison with the local government - but not necessarily any direct involvement. We know that in the case of the recent international donations to the flood victims in the NW, the government was not accommodating when they realised they would not be getting their mitts on the money or the emergency supplies. These were distributed by the donors and their local partners, and were largely targeted at Haitian immigrants living in the region who are ineligible to vote, so the government was not interested in helping them.

As mountainfrog's post illustrates, the corruption factor is something the agencies would have to tackle. Corruption DR-style will not be a deterrent or a novelty to people who have experience of working in certain African countries.

In this case, I wonder whether if it is sold to them in a certain way, the government will recognise the benefits of containing the problem at somebody else's expense (as they would see it).

One possible model for a refugee camp is to have one of the larger agencies in overall control with the smaller, specialist organisations like Medecins sans Frontieres taking charge of their area of expertise. As much as possible, community leaders from the refugee population would be encouraged to participate in the running and organisation of the camp. In the early stages of setting up a camp events tend to overtake planning but once the situation stabilises it is possible to organise things in a more structured manner.

Sorry if this is vague, it is just that every situation is different, with so many variables at play. Rather than the logistics of setting up a camp, which IMO would be easy here even in the remote border regions compared to other countries with far less favourable conditions (esp. communication, distances, infrastructure, goods available locally, stability) I am interested in the political viability and implications of all the three options I mention in the OP.

I've just reread Pib's question about outcomes so am adding in this bit: worse cases include order breaking down and deteriorating into factional fighting between refugees in Rwandan camps in Zaire, to better experiences in Central America where the communities were kept more or less intact within the camps. People used their time in the camps to obtain vocational skills and education, with reasonably successful resettlement programmes after the peace treaties (in El Salvador and Guatemala). Other nightmare scenarios from across the globe include refugee camps that take root and the refugees never return, creating a burden on the host country.

Chiri
 
Last edited:

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
2,174
26
0
97
www.texasbill.com
Coping with an influx of refugees

Judging from the manner in which the UN has operated in the past, I would be surprised if that bureacratic, alphabetical monster could move fast enough to handle the problems endemic with a mass influx of undisciplined and hungry Haitians.
And it is obvious even to the most preceptive observer that the Dominican Government would be absolutely incapable of doing so. They couldn't even handle the influx of food goods and medical supplies that were sent to the flood victims recently. And that was only a few thousand spread over a large area.
As to where the suggested camps would/could be set up to accomodate the refugees, that is another question altogether. There aren't many areas open enough, with the water and electricity, sanitary facilities, etc., etc. to be of any use on either side of the border.
Then there is the matter of security and containment of the refugees to a particular area. The problems seem to be insurmountable and unsolvable in the short run and that is the only time available. Long run solutions won't be acceptable.

Texas Bill
 

JenniferDiaz

New member
Jan 31, 2003
48
0
0
On the Haitians side.

If the international community want to have refugees camps, let's have them on Haiti, under the control of the Dominican Army. A security zone can be created on the border, but on the Haitian side. The more refugees, the more Haitian territory is taken for that. After all, the ones with the problem are the Haitians. We must defend the integrity of our territory.

Refugeen camps have the potential of becoming towns or small communities, with needs for social services and all the problems they can bring. We do not need more problems from the Haitians, so it should be in their territory.

Plus, rebels are allowing the delivery of help. So, there might not even be a need for camps.
 

mountainfrog

On Vacation!
Dec 8, 2003
3,146
0
0
www.domrep-info.com
"As mountainfrog's post illustrates, the corruption factor is something the agencies would have to tackle. Corruption DR-style will not be a deterrent or a novelty to people who have experience of working in certain African countries."

Well, suppose, the frog?s post was gulped up by another frog.
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
982
113
From today's DR1 news:

Historian Franklyn Franco, said that the Jesuit Refugee Service's proposal to set up refugee camps made more sense than an "uncontrolled exodus" of Haitians. He pointed out that the JRS proposal was supported by the United Nations and other international entities, and that given the lack of control along the 400km border between the two countries, this option was the most realistic. "If we place them in an enclosure, under the control and supervision of national and international organizations, they can be repatriated as soon as the political unrest is over, and what's more, the (Dominican) government would not have to contribute a cent."

This is more or less my view, if we are faced with the choice between a rock and a hard place.

However, I certainly agree with Jennifer :speechles that the best scenario for all concerned would be for the camps to be in Haiti if it is at all possible.

Texas Bill, the UN and other agencies - bureaucratic dinosaurs though they may be - have coped well enough in much more rugged and remote terrain than the Dominican-Haitian border zone, and dealt with far more difficult groups of people and worse situations! No disputing your comment about the Dominican authorities though.

Chiri

Mountain frog, I liked your post! What happened to it?
 

dms3611

Bronze
Jan 14, 2002
664
14
0
Gosh...I think you forgot about option four.....

...thats the one where the DR military "beats hell" out of and/or shoots those Hatians crossing the border into the DR. I think that was part of the "solution" not a few years back.....
 

Pib

Goddess
Jan 1, 2002
3,668
20
38
www.dominicancooking.com
Chirimoya said:
From today's DR1 news:
Mountain frog, I liked your post! What happened to it?
Maybe the server gulped it... I think I didn't even read it.

Anyways... I agree that a refugee camp is the best solution. However, has anybody thought that Dominicans living well under the poverty line around the border might not be too happy of what they might see as "unfair advantages" given to Haitians on their own soil. Just playing devil's advocate for a second (usually I am the devil).
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
982
113
How can you possibly be the devil AND the goddess?

Your point about causing resentment amongst the local population is a valid one, the issue comes up in nearly every refugee situation I can think of.

Chiri
 

Larry

Gold
Mar 22, 2002
3,513
2
0
Am I missing something here?

How can the Dominican govt. even THINK of setting up refugee camps for Hatians in the same areas where DOMINICANS are dirt poor directly due to governmental misdeeds? Why would the possibility of that even cross your mind? Please explain to me. Remember that I am an American and really have no clue.

Larry
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
982
113
Don't they teach you to read in America? ;) Where did anyone say it would be the Dominican government who would be setting up the camps? Perish the thought!

We were talking about international agencies setting up refugee camps, not holiday camps. But it is a valid point to say that the refugees may be seen as privileged by dirt-poor local communities.

Based on their experiences, aid agencies now know to anticipate these potential tensions and make a point of involving the local population in their consultations, often incorporating projects that will benefit the host population as well as the refugees. As I mentioned in the OP the presence of refugee camps often revitalises the local economy, providing employment for local people and increased custom for local businesses.

The choice is, as the historian quoted above said: contain the problem in a humane manner until the situation is resolved and they can be safely repatriated OR let the influx happen in the usual uncontrolled way, resulting in countless new additions to the illegal immigrants living in the DR. No one is under any illusion that the border can be effectively policed, so whether we like it or not, that is the choice we face, unless some sort of 'safe haven' could be created on the Haitian side of the border.

Chiri
 

Pib

Goddess
Jan 1, 2002
3,668
20
38
www.dominicancooking.com
Chirimoya said:
How can you possibly be the devil AND the goddess?
The Goddess works in misterious ways (meaning she's clueless).

So, having cleared the involvement of the local communities, I see no reason why not do it. However, I would like to know how the government would present the idea to the public, the rest of the country, not been as informed about other countries' experiences they might reject it.
 

Larry

Gold
Mar 22, 2002
3,513
2
0
Ahhh, I see Chiri. Sometimes it takes me a while :). I am often guilty of scanning over threads and responding without reading more deeply into them. Too bad the Dominican border police won't just do their jobs. If they did, no one would have to come up with these complex solutions.

Larry
 

Quisqueya

Bronze
Nov 10, 2003
682
0
16
Never Happen!!!!

JenniferDiaz said:
If the international community want to have refugees camps, let's have them on Haiti, under the control of the Dominican Army. A security zone can be created on the border, but on the Haitian side. The more refugees, the more Haitian territory is taken for that. After all, the ones with the problem are the Haitians. We must defend the integrity of our territory.

Refugeen camps have the potential of becoming towns or small communities, with needs for social services and all the problems they can bring. We do not need more problems from the Haitians, so it should be in their territory.

Plus, rebels are allowing the delivery of help. So, there might not even be a need for camps.


Although haitians might cross the frontier to seek asylum, I dont think the dominican gov't should be solely responsible for the inevitable exodus. With the foriegn aid and charity groups helping the gov't of DR should benefit from the haitian exodus. (basically u know the gov't are not going to use all of the foriegn aid for its purpose)


As far as Dominican Army controlling these camps would be the worse thing to do. For one, its an insult for dominicans to be controlling the camps on Haitian soil unless you really want a civl war on the island to break out. Second, the dominican army are not trained well enough to maintain an effecient humanitary camp. Third, based on our history it will cause so much political propaganda that the tension b/w the two nations will blow up like a time bomb.
 

Quisqueya

Bronze
Nov 10, 2003
682
0
16
You dont you try it

dms3611 said:
...thats the one where the DR military "beats hell" out of and/or shoots those Hatians crossing the border into the DR. I think that was part of the "solution" not a few years back.....


Moderator,

I find the statement above are very offensive and promoting voilent acts towards a group of people. But if you want to fight sword with sword, I promise you that all dominicans will be at the mercy of braceros with his machete at the throat of your people begging them to spare their lives. If you think 22 years of occupation from us was brutal, why not try to manifest your statement and I garuntee that dominican republic will no longer be in existence.
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
982
113
I agree that that post has no place in a constructive debate, unless it's purpose was to serve as a warning for what could happen. No matter what, I don't think your response was justified.

Chiri
 

Quisqueya

Bronze
Nov 10, 2003
682
0
16
You can't reason with ignorance

Chirimoya said:
I agree that that post has no place in a constructive debate, unless it's purpose was to serve as a warning for what could happen. No matter what, I don't think your response was justified.

Chiri

Chiri,

I agree with you 100% but you can NOT reason with ignorance. Some dominicans need to have a reality check. They themselves are dirt poor trying to make themselves have some self worth by picking on the (Some) poor haitians.

yes, the reality is that their are alot of poor haitians living in the DR but on the other hand their are alot of middle & upper class haitians in every sector of dominican society. My statement in the previous thread was to let dominicans know that haitians deserve more respect and we will not allow a dominican to say anything as he/she pleases.

Its funny that I know several dominicans dislike haitians but I didn't know it was to this extent until I came to this forum. I have had many dominican friends of mine from college come to my house and have dinner with me and my family. I am appalled to see how brainwashed and unrealistic you guys are.

My dominican friends and I have debates about the island of hispanola and of course have different opinions on certain issues but always come to the conclusion that hating each other is one of the reason why the whole island can't prosper to its fullest potential. The only subject I hate to talk about with my dominican friends is about race. Since they are darker than I am they really prefer to avoid this conversation because of what I'm assuming is inferior complex. All their life they assume all haitians were dark skin and when they see a lighter or white haitian they completely feel inferior. Ok, i'm haitian but dont fit the typical stereotype. Now what? What else can you say. Nothing!!!

Thank you very much for this site because if this forum wasn't here I wouldn't know how ignorant most of you guys are. Its ashame to see a group of poor people treat another group of poor people bad just to feel good about themselves. Ignorance is a virus and it appears most of you dominicans in this from are infected by this virus.

Quisqueya
 

suarezn

Gold
Feb 3, 2002
5,823
290
0
55
Quisqueya said:
Chiri,

Its funny that I know several dominicans dislike haitians but I didn't know it was to this extent until I came to this forum. I have had many dominican friends of mine from college come to my house and have dinner with me and my family. I am appalled to see how brainwashed and unrealistic you guys are.

Ok, i'm haitian but dont fit the typical stereotype. Now what? What else can you say. Nothing!!!

Quisqueya: I'm not sure if you're aware that most of the people in this forum ARE NOT Dominicans. Even those who are Dominican are not what I would call the typical dominican person, so don't go by what these guys say in here.

You are Haitian but don't fit the typical haitian stereotype? You mean you don't have cocomordan? Darn!!!

Sorry, couldn't help it....
 

Narcosis

New member
Dec 18, 2003
387
0
0
No one "hates" Haitians

What I "Hate" is hunger, poverty, ignorance, lawlessness, this is what needs to be eliminated from the island, both sides.

This has nothing to do with race or nationality, as you have pointed out these ills are present on both sides in different levels but it is present.

Quisqueya let us look for solutions to solve these ills and drop the attacks on both sides.

BTW: I'm sure that when dms3611 made that comment about the Dominican military it was more an attack on the poor methods used and not a suggestion on his part.