- Thread starter Vainqueur_Noir
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Negrophobia in the D.R.
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Until Black people take ownership of their problems they will never be FREE!
She blames the Spanish Governors from 100s of years ago for the problems of today!Where are her plans to make things better? Cris Colon :tired:
She blames the Spanish Governors from 100s of years ago for the problems of today!Where are her plans to make things better? Cris Colon :tired:
The basic premise is correct, but the 'facts' used to back it up do nothing for the cause. There were no Africans here in 1503. Trujillo was racist, but did not 'impose white supremacy'. etc etc. If these arguments are going to be made, do us the favour of presenting them with informed facts.
Chiri
Chiri
After soing a "search" of Vanqueer-Blacks"11 posts,one thing is clear!
States never having been to the DR,"Nuf Said"?
There is a "Black" "Woe Is Me" agenda at work!
Wants all people who have "Black" blood to identify themselves as "Black African" decendents,and live the "Black" lifestyle! Do the "search" see what I mean! Robert has closed most of her threads! cris colon
States never having been to the DR,"Nuf Said"?
There is a "Black" "Woe Is Me" agenda at work!
Wants all people who have "Black" blood to identify themselves as "Black African" decendents,and live the "Black" lifestyle! Do the "search" see what I mean! Robert has closed most of her threads! cris colon
Criss Colon said:
Most of HER posts? LOL. Who cares who about who sees themself as black or white? My beef is switching sides. A lot of Dominicans try to identify with us after the fact. People as dark as Sammy Sosa and darker think they're white. Inferiority complexes I guess.
"Denial is the most predictable of all human responses"-Matrix Reloaded
And the lady is all black
So, the question really is at what percentage of black/white blood do you change races. I would argue that CC with his mixed race children would even have a hard time with this. Do you decide by colour, percentage, or does the person in question decide. Looking at the young lady who did the lecture you could make a case for her to celibrate her white blood;after all why should you decide one culture over another, which seems to be your main beef in life.
If a Dominicana/o (mullato) perfers to identify themselves with one of their races that's their business. Perhaps if we all could look past the colour of skin(which most of can) there wouldn't be a need for these type of conversation. It seems that you as a black Haitian have a large chip on your shoulder.
So, the question really is at what percentage of black/white blood do you change races. I would argue that CC with his mixed race children would even have a hard time with this. Do you decide by colour, percentage, or does the person in question decide. Looking at the young lady who did the lecture you could make a case for her to celibrate her white blood;after all why should you decide one culture over another, which seems to be your main beef in life.
If a Dominicana/o (mullato) perfers to identify themselves with one of their races that's their business. Perhaps if we all could look past the colour of skin(which most of can) there wouldn't be a need for these type of conversation. It seems that you as a black Haitian have a large chip on your shoulder.
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Criss Colon said:
Criss, Why are you always the first one to respond on black race issues? Why are you so concerned with blacks in the world and their plight? Are you really black and just passing for white or something and angry that one of your white pappies raped your great-great grandmother and adulterated you with black blood? What's with you and all your anger towards the black race?
Shouldn't have to Choose
I have completed a lot of research on racial and ethnic issues in the Dominican Republic as well as visiting numerous times with my Dominican friends. For people of mixed races, they shouldn't have to choose only one; that's an American mentality that needs to go away. I completely agree with what the previous writer said about mixed race children and "at what percentage are they in what race".
If someone identifies more with "Black" or African culture, fine, let them be proud of that part of their heritage, but if a mulatto feels more comfortable and identifies more with the white part of his heritage, that should be acceptable too. Most of my Dominican friends admit that they have Spanish, Arabic, French and African ancestry, but they do not consider themselves "Black" by American definitions because they do not limit their identity to only one part of their background. Their skin color, features, hair, etc. would not categorize them as phenotypically "Black" either.
My boyfriend is Dominican, and while he does not appear "Black", yes, he does have African heritage (which is more apparent on his mother's side) he is a mixture of so many things that I would not just tell someone "I'm marrying a black man"...I would say "I'm marrying a Dominican". Whites are allowed to claim their distinct backgrounds, such as saying "I'm German-American" or that they are part French, German, and Irish. Those of mixed race should have just as much ability to claim all parts of their background and not just be lumped into one category unless that is what they choose for themselves.
The whole "Indio" categorization does show some bias against their African ancestry in claiming that their color and features come from the Taino indians. However, this exists as a cultural myth, and while the Tainos may have been essentially wiped out in the early years of the conquests, Dominicans have a right to be proud of the Taino contribution to their history. The good thing about Dominican racial categorization is that it takes into account many factors, not just the "One drop" American rule.
I have completed a lot of research on racial and ethnic issues in the Dominican Republic as well as visiting numerous times with my Dominican friends. For people of mixed races, they shouldn't have to choose only one; that's an American mentality that needs to go away. I completely agree with what the previous writer said about mixed race children and "at what percentage are they in what race".
If someone identifies more with "Black" or African culture, fine, let them be proud of that part of their heritage, but if a mulatto feels more comfortable and identifies more with the white part of his heritage, that should be acceptable too. Most of my Dominican friends admit that they have Spanish, Arabic, French and African ancestry, but they do not consider themselves "Black" by American definitions because they do not limit their identity to only one part of their background. Their skin color, features, hair, etc. would not categorize them as phenotypically "Black" either.
My boyfriend is Dominican, and while he does not appear "Black", yes, he does have African heritage (which is more apparent on his mother's side) he is a mixture of so many things that I would not just tell someone "I'm marrying a black man"...I would say "I'm marrying a Dominican". Whites are allowed to claim their distinct backgrounds, such as saying "I'm German-American" or that they are part French, German, and Irish. Those of mixed race should have just as much ability to claim all parts of their background and not just be lumped into one category unless that is what they choose for themselves.
The whole "Indio" categorization does show some bias against their African ancestry in claiming that their color and features come from the Taino indians. However, this exists as a cultural myth, and while the Tainos may have been essentially wiped out in the early years of the conquests, Dominicans have a right to be proud of the Taino contribution to their history. The good thing about Dominican racial categorization is that it takes into account many factors, not just the "One drop" American rule.
Personal Responsibility
I think Criss was refering to the whole "victim" mentality. Other ethnic groups have had this issue too. The problem comes in when people refuse to take personal responsiblity for their problems/failings and instead blame it on a persecuted history. Race and ethnicity are still important in today's society, whether we like it or not. Yes, there is still prejudice, racism and mistreatment, but there are also successful blacks, minorities, etc. who have worked hard and not let it hold them back. You can't help what you are born into, but how hard you work and what you do with your life is totally your responsibility. My roommate in college was from Nigeria, and while I saw firsthand some of the racial problems she had to deal with in Louisiana, I also saw how hard she worked to overcome these obstacles and acheive her goals. There's more to life than skin color or ethnic background, but like anything, the limits you put on yourself are going to have much worse consequences on your potential success than any limits others might impose.
ClippedWing said:
I think Criss was refering to the whole "victim" mentality. Other ethnic groups have had this issue too. The problem comes in when people refuse to take personal responsiblity for their problems/failings and instead blame it on a persecuted history. Race and ethnicity are still important in today's society, whether we like it or not. Yes, there is still prejudice, racism and mistreatment, but there are also successful blacks, minorities, etc. who have worked hard and not let it hold them back. You can't help what you are born into, but how hard you work and what you do with your life is totally your responsibility. My roommate in college was from Nigeria, and while I saw firsthand some of the racial problems she had to deal with in Louisiana, I also saw how hard she worked to overcome these obstacles and acheive her goals. There's more to life than skin color or ethnic background, but like anything, the limits you put on yourself are going to have much worse consequences on your potential success than any limits others might impose.
I'm not planning to read the article because I can just guess what it's about, anyway
resposes, so this is what I think in general. Dominicans are a mashed of things. I don't mean that in the sense that all types of people live here, but the fact that the bulk of dominicans have a mash of races within their blood running through their veins. Take me for example. My Granparents from my mother were all white. My granmother from my father was white, but my grandfather from my father was black dominican but really a mulatto because his mother was white. My father (looks black but really mulatto) married my mother who is a white dominican. Then I was born with all these white and black blood. The other day I read an article that said that 7 out of every 10 of the 300 dominicans whom took part of the investigation had some traces of taino blood. TAINO BLOOD, CAN YOU BELIEVE IT. This was done by some american science company. So, how can a dominican chose one race and deny the other. Sure, many declare themselves more on the white side than black, but they can't deny the heritage they have in their blood. Plus, with all this Taino traits that every foreigner thought it was an imagination of dominicans to "ignore their african roots" may turn out to be true after all. Maybe most dominicans are Indios claros or Indios Oscuros. I have also read that dominicans define good hair with that of white people and bad hair with that of black people. Before I ever read such thing (by a foreigner I might add) me (a dominican) always thought that good hair was hair easy enough to comb and bad hair was hair that people have to almost break war with to get a simple hairdo. So, all of this racial bolony stuff is low in the part of anyone that actually brings it up. Regardless of your race, you are dominican. Eat your platano, dance merengue, and live life to the fullest because yesterday is gone and tomorrow never come. DOMINICAN Y CON ORGULLO DE SER DE LA TIERRA DE DUARTE, MELLA, Y SANCHEZ. VIVA LA PATRIA!!! And all those racist people trying to paint dominicans as racist when in fact they are not, should look at themselves before judging anyone else. Anyone that want to criticize me do it, but this is how I think and this is how many if not most dominicans think!!!
resposes, so this is what I think in general. Dominicans are a mashed of things. I don't mean that in the sense that all types of people live here, but the fact that the bulk of dominicans have a mash of races within their blood running through their veins. Take me for example. My Granparents from my mother were all white. My granmother from my father was white, but my grandfather from my father was black dominican but really a mulatto because his mother was white. My father (looks black but really mulatto) married my mother who is a white dominican. Then I was born with all these white and black blood. The other day I read an article that said that 7 out of every 10 of the 300 dominicans whom took part of the investigation had some traces of taino blood. TAINO BLOOD, CAN YOU BELIEVE IT. This was done by some american science company. So, how can a dominican chose one race and deny the other. Sure, many declare themselves more on the white side than black, but they can't deny the heritage they have in their blood. Plus, with all this Taino traits that every foreigner thought it was an imagination of dominicans to "ignore their african roots" may turn out to be true after all. Maybe most dominicans are Indios claros or Indios Oscuros. I have also read that dominicans define good hair with that of white people and bad hair with that of black people. Before I ever read such thing (by a foreigner I might add) me (a dominican) always thought that good hair was hair easy enough to comb and bad hair was hair that people have to almost break war with to get a simple hairdo. So, all of this racial bolony stuff is low in the part of anyone that actually brings it up. Regardless of your race, you are dominican. Eat your platano, dance merengue, and live life to the fullest because yesterday is gone and tomorrow never come. DOMINICAN Y CON ORGULLO DE SER DE LA TIERRA DE DUARTE, MELLA, Y SANCHEZ. VIVA LA PATRIA!!! And all those racist people trying to paint dominicans as racist when in fact they are not, should look at themselves before judging anyone else. Anyone that want to criticize me do it, but this is how I think and this is how many if not most dominicans think!!!
I'll make it easy for dominicans and ex-pats. From now on all dominicans including myself somos cien por cien negros. We are all 100% black African of the negroid race. All pure of the darkest complexion with the biggest lips and noses. That's me so now what!!!!
Onion & Carrots, what would you say if...
you have a kid and the little rascal comes out light skin. In fact, so light that he might be confused as being white either in the DR or anywhere else. There is a high chance that (as a dominican) you may have european blood mixed in your system eventhough your physical looks dark. So, what would you say then, that your kid is a light black. Face it, such kid is not black at all, just how their is a very high chance that you are not black at all, unless you want to deny the fact that you are a mulatto, you know, something different. Take a black paint and mix it with a white paint and you get GRAY. It's not black or white, it's GRAY, something different, something new. Well, I guess the samething applies to races. If anything, I am sure that you and I will agree on this, that whatever color or race you belong to, you are a dominican. That's all that really matters because when the merengue is at full volume, the rum is flowing, and you get that feeling to just get up and dance to that wonderful DOMINICAN music and drink that wonderful DOMINICAN rume, nothing else shouts out of those actions than DOMINICANIDAD, and being proud of it.
you have a kid and the little rascal comes out light skin. In fact, so light that he might be confused as being white either in the DR or anywhere else. There is a high chance that (as a dominican) you may have european blood mixed in your system eventhough your physical looks dark. So, what would you say then, that your kid is a light black. Face it, such kid is not black at all, just how their is a very high chance that you are not black at all, unless you want to deny the fact that you are a mulatto, you know, something different. Take a black paint and mix it with a white paint and you get GRAY. It's not black or white, it's GRAY, something different, something new. Well, I guess the samething applies to races. If anything, I am sure that you and I will agree on this, that whatever color or race you belong to, you are a dominican. That's all that really matters because when the merengue is at full volume, the rum is flowing, and you get that feeling to just get up and dance to that wonderful DOMINICAN music and drink that wonderful DOMINICAN rume, nothing else shouts out of those actions than DOMINICANIDAD, and being proud of it.
Nalu, my previous post was meant as a joke. If I was any whiter I'd be a corpse. But all jokes aside I think people overplay the color thing in the DR. The DR mixes more than any country I have been to or read about. Whoever sees racism in the DR is seeing pajaritos volando. Whateever racism there is in the DR is purely jest. Personally I have never seen any type of racism in the DR. Of course if you're angry at a black person and you uteer maldito negro it isn't suppose to be taken as a deep statement just purely superficial.
Now in the past I was pretty racist but now I realize it was only superficial. Heck I've changed so much I wish we could unite with Haiti. Plenty of black folk over there that need our help to get them out of poverty.
Now in the past I was pretty racist but now I realize it was only superficial. Heck I've changed so much I wish we could unite with Haiti. Plenty of black folk over there that need our help to get them out of poverty.
Oh, well in that case ...
Disregard my previous post. Obviously you and me are on the same line of thinking. However, I'm not ready to unite with Haiti - not yet. Too much stuff has happened between DR and Haiti that just revolts a bunch of emotions in side of me - not hatred, but uncomfortableness. Remember, I'm from Moca. They don't called Moca La Heroica for nothing. Everytime I visit some of my buddies in Moca, I sit on those rocking chairs in their town home on the edge of the busy downtown road of Moca, and I can just imagine how the Haitian army just marched into town, comes into the house, kills a everyone on the spot just for being Dominicans. It's just something hard to swallow when you put your self in the dominican position. All your children dead, your wife dead, and then your killed by these foreigners all because they want the dust beneath your feet. And then in the 200 plus years of history, the Haitians have not once shown some sort of remorse or sorryness for what they did, all they complain is how Trujillo only paid a paltry $50 for each Haitian he slaughtered. I know with the current conditions Haiti is in, they will never pay reparations to the DR, but an apology would be a nice start. This is not to say that I hate Haitians or anything, because I don't. In fact, I have many Haitian friends, but their government is a different story.
Disregard my previous post. Obviously you and me are on the same line of thinking. However, I'm not ready to unite with Haiti - not yet. Too much stuff has happened between DR and Haiti that just revolts a bunch of emotions in side of me - not hatred, but uncomfortableness. Remember, I'm from Moca. They don't called Moca La Heroica for nothing. Everytime I visit some of my buddies in Moca, I sit on those rocking chairs in their town home on the edge of the busy downtown road of Moca, and I can just imagine how the Haitian army just marched into town, comes into the house, kills a everyone on the spot just for being Dominicans. It's just something hard to swallow when you put your self in the dominican position. All your children dead, your wife dead, and then your killed by these foreigners all because they want the dust beneath your feet. And then in the 200 plus years of history, the Haitians have not once shown some sort of remorse or sorryness for what they did, all they complain is how Trujillo only paid a paltry $50 for each Haitian he slaughtered. I know with the current conditions Haiti is in, they will never pay reparations to the DR, but an apology would be a nice start. This is not to say that I hate Haitians or anything, because I don't. In fact, I have many Haitian friends, but their government is a different story.
I love Moca beatiful green lush fields. You're right Nalu the haitian gov't should at least say they are sorry for starts. Deep wounds do run thru both countries. I just would like to end all the division cuz that will only destroy us both eventually.
It isn't negrophobia
It's anti-Haitian. this is ingrained into children from the time they are old enough to listen.
"This black color (or brown or tan or off white, whatever isn't milk white) is because the Haitians did this to us." This is the gospel.
"The best thing Trujillo ever did was wipe out the haitians." This is gospel
And there are many more "truisms" floating around, if you want to listen.
"Maldito Haitiano" is on everyone's lips at one time or another..
However, "maldito nregro del diablo" can be a come on to a nice guy...more of a game than an insult.
"Negro lindo" There are tons of these...
So get away from this negrophobia and realize that, like Juan Antonio Alix said over a hundred years ago: "We all have a little black behind our ears" and for most of us it is no big deal..
HB
It's anti-Haitian. this is ingrained into children from the time they are old enough to listen.
"This black color (or brown or tan or off white, whatever isn't milk white) is because the Haitians did this to us." This is the gospel.
"The best thing Trujillo ever did was wipe out the haitians." This is gospel
And there are many more "truisms" floating around, if you want to listen.
"Maldito Haitiano" is on everyone's lips at one time or another..
However, "maldito nregro del diablo" can be a come on to a nice guy...more of a game than an insult.
"Negro lindo" There are tons of these...
So get away from this negrophobia and realize that, like Juan Antonio Alix said over a hundred years ago: "We all have a little black behind our ears" and for most of us it is no big deal..
HB
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