How to educate and bring about a change in the Dominican youth for the furture

PICHARDO

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May 15, 2003
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I'm bringing this one out as a point of reference for myself and maybe to get some great ideas on how to approach it.

*Given the current lack of quality education in the DR what do you think could be a much better and economical approach to upgrading the educational system in place both public and private since the Dept. of Edu. is in fact in control of the basic aspects of the educational system?

*Would you be willing to take part directly in this undertaking you propose?

*What would be the short term implication of implementing your idea(s)?

*How would this translate into the social and economy aspirations of the DR youth in the long term?

*Would you be willing to engage a broad segment of DR professionals now in place to get this idea(s) to see the light of day?

*Can it be done?

Please post your point of view or actual Idea(s) on any of the points hereto mentioned regardless of the lack of support in other points for such opinions.

I'm looking forward to the highly educated and real live experience of so many DR1's opinions and idea(s) on these points.
 

Oche

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Jan 6, 2004
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I believe education should consolidate first in every dominican home of all socioeconomic levels. Family and moral values which are nowadays very scarce due to many social reasons are the keystone to begin the rescue of general education. Why do i say this?, because it is my impression that today's parents wether they send their kids at school or not, and wether the subjects involved are from a lower or upper class, are not giving them the necessary home attention to teach these values. Dominicans which have been raised by these values do distinguish themselves regardless of both their level of education and socioeconomic status from other cretins that unfortunately did not have the privilege of family and moral input.
 

samiam

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It is my opinion that the only way to improve the educational system in a "semi-democratic" third world nation is with the aid and 'sponsorship' of the business comunity. The government can not undertake this task alone because the government, as a whole, is probably the worst educated institution there is.
So I propose to create tax incentive programs to coorporations that sponsor public schools and educational programs and at years end the results of those programs are made public and judged by the effectiveness of those programs. The evaluation, on behalf of representatives from different areas (ambassadors, artists, doctors, etc.) results in a specific tax deduction.

*Yes, of course I'd be willing to take direct part if I where to embark in a crusade to implement this program.

*Once you get the legislative and presidential branches convinced to adopt the program (take a reduction in their collected taxes on behalf of better education) you can implement the program in different phases with in a 2 year period. The results will be apparent if the program remains active for 8-10 years.

*Yes I'd be willing to....wait, did you say engage?

* Of course it can be done, empresarios would love to get a tax cut. There where many programs like these implemented during the 12 years and the first PRD government but after that, where slowly canceled by every other government since Jorge Blancos up to Hipolito's. with the political will, it can be done.
 
One thing, no matter what country, stems the ability for a child to learn and to get a proper education is insuring their basic needs are met.

Proper nutrition
Shelter
decent health care
supplemental education outside of the formal setting.
Safety

Governments need to help meet these basic needs along with funding better education material and resources. But you can have to best educational system in the world but if a child is sick, not eating right, lack of sleep, safety and the like, the childs ability to learn will always be distracted. There are also excuses from the governement to re-allocate resources to other ventures such as the tourism industry that countries like DR depend upon.

Religion and church for the most part has played a serogate role in poor nations or communities. It seems the poorer the society the more religous the person becomes. If that is the case, the Church should play a stronger role in FREE education and contributing more resources and time. But even churches fall short because they are just as eager to fatten there pockets with high class private schools.

Either way these two entities are the key elements in strengthening formal education in DR. Sacrifices have to be made.
 

Texas Bill

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Feb 11, 2003
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In all reality, ALL of you are right!!

HOWEVER, since the beaurocratic mechanisms are already in place to effect the goals that each of you have outlined, it would seem the proper thing to do would be to assure the proper functioning of those mechanisms.
In order to do that, you would have to start at the bottom (at the teaching level) and assure that the instructors who are hired are properly qualified to teach the subjects of the cirruculum. Then see to it that the funds which are to be expended for the lunches actually are used for that purpose. That the school "nurses" are really nurses and qualified to effect the correct care indicated to the children (ie., if a child is ill, send that child home or take him/her to the clinic for care which can't be given at school).

In order to properly effect the changes you view as necessary, start by kicking the head of the school in the butt until you get his attention, then inform him to either straighten up and fly right, or you'll repeat the performance on an hourly basis until he does! This solution is effective at ALL levels of administration. Make THEM afraid of YOU, instead of the other way around!
If you take some positive actions, eventually you'll get your points across and the system will start to correct itself, believe me!
This system has worked in some of the strangest places!!! It's called the "vigillante" approach and I've seen it in action against entrenched beaurocracies several times. I won't say where, but I grew up there!

We called it "taking the bull by the horns"! XR would call it "taking care of your own problems yourself"!

It's a viably effective procedure when you're frustration level reaches the breaking point and perfectly "civilized (unless you call being "civilized" as laying down and taking a bunch of bullcrap from some egotistical bas&^%$# who thing they know what is good for you)!!!!

In other words, get off your fanny, act like the men that you are, and correct the inequality that exists. The money is there!!! See to it that it is funelled in the right directions and places and don't take NO for an answer!

Texas Bill
 

dulce

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Jan 1, 2002
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Obviously the public system is not working for the same reason that anything that the current government is involved in doesn't work. Corruption, greed and theft. What would motivate the DR politicians to educate thier people. They need poor uneducated people to work in low paying jobs.
I believe there is NO REASON why there can not be a good eduction system in the DR. Now to answer your posts with my opinions. It will take a group of people seriously interested in a long term project. It would not happen overnight but maybe star with a small number of franchise school's. The funding could come from a mixture of serious minded businesses,private donations,some fees. The school's must also include a mixture of children of the businessmen and poor children who otherwise would not have the opportunity to attend school.
1. The requirement of a uniform to attend needs to be eliminated. I personnaly know of many children who do not go to school because they have no clothes. Transportation and meals need to be provided. It is a proven fact that children do not learn when they have bad nutrition. Parents need to be involved and informed.
2.I would be willing to be involved. I was offered to buy a private school after the owners had been killed in a car crash. Unfortunately, I do not have the money to do that. When I lived in the DR I was involved in educating the Dominican people who asked me to. The cost to me was ZERO! All it took was my knowledge and thier desire to learn. I needed my mouth to talk, thier ears to listen, a pen and paper. I did this at Restaurants,bars and also my apartment.
3. Find business people willing to learn of a new approach to education. Motivate and educate these people on the benefits and long term results.
4. In addition to the regular classes there is a need to teach social and economical benefits for generations to come.
5. A positive new approach needs to be presented to the professionals in the DR. Again, to teach the benefits and LONG TERM RESULTS of educating and offering LONG TERM employment to many people. Their savings in training new employees would be a motivation in itself.
6. YES it can be done! The necessary ingredients for success already exists in the DR. The 2 most important ingredients are educated people and uneducated people with a burning desire to learn!
AHHHHHHHHH if I only had money or knew where the people who do have money hang around. LOL
 

Texas Bill

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Having blabed off in a previous post above, here are some additional suggestions which may, or may not, bear on the subject.

Questions??

1. Does there exist a School of Education in any of the Universities/Colleges in the Dominican Republic?
2. Does the Department of Education in the Dominican Republic offer jobs to the graduates of such a school? I ask this because, here in Manzanillo, the teachers are High School graduates who have taken a short course in the subject they are being hired to teach and so far as I know that is the ONLY requirement for filling their RD$10,000.00/month salary! In otherwords, they really aren't qualified scholastically to teach the subject material (limited tho it is). I personally think that is a part of the "education" problem.
3. Does the local school system attempt to organize the parents of their students into a Parent/Teachers Association wherein they discuss the problems of the general student population, offer scenarios whereby those problems can be solved, etc., etc.? I think not.
4. Does the fear of losing their jobs motivate the "teachers" to "pass" marginally productive students and/or failing students in order to make the administration look good? Possibly.

As I posted previously, I think the chief motivators would be the students themselves and their parents. If they were to begin demanding qualified teachers and up to date and REAL textbooks (instead of extended pamphlet-form workbooks which must be copied). That is the first suggestion that will cost real money!

Secondly, in order to motivate the students AND their parents, the social and economic atmosphere must be a positive one.

Thirdly, (and this remark may be construed to be facetious) "It's hard to think about draining the damn swamp when you're up to your *** in alligators", which is where the education system seems to be in the Dominican Republic today!

Texas Bill
 
Texas Bill said:
Secondly, in order to motivate the students AND their parents, the social and economic atmosphere must be a positive one.
look, tourism is the bread and butter of this country. Why would there be any motivation to strengthen the economic amd educational atmosphere when many people there are prepped to service that industry.

The Curiculum in American Universities is dicated by corporate america for the most part. I've talked to many Deans who have stated they have to teach what is required by corporate firms if they want these firms to come to their schools to recruit.

So in DR what are they prepping the people for, something like Hotel Management and Services? Hardly. You would think that would be a popular major. If they pick something like Agriculture they of course have to be an affiliate of the current government if they want some form of growth potential in any Agricultural sector funded by the government which is were the bulk of the hiring comes from.

Then you have the unskilled workers to service, you guessed it, tourism. So what is the motivation in learning, and what is the government motiviation to faciliate learning if they know their people are mainly laborers for the tourism sector, formal and informal.

Places like India has the high tech and service center sector locked up when it comes to skilled jobs services for the US and other countries. But the US also provides completly paid scholarships for Indians to come here and learn in US universities so that they could bring that knowledge and skill back to india. Why do I know that, over half my class in Grad school were from India and each and everyone of them were getting a free educational ride to take back to india, while I was stuck with a $20,000 tuition bill. I only knew this after befriending many of my classmates and having discussions over wonderfully prepared Indian food.

You won't get that deal for DR and other caribbean nations. Carribean nations are relegated to cheap labor. I tend to think the rich nations have under estimated this region and in so doing so have marginalized them as well.

I beleive there is more self motivation among many Dominicans to succeed educationally and financially then having any form of support from the government or churches to educated them. Those who have money will get sent to the states by their parents to study and either stay in the states or return back to DR to either help their own, or marginalize their own people. I would hope they would help, but I've seen more of the opposite. My wife ran in to a Dominican student at Georgetown who acted so stooty to my wife, my wife wanted to knock her out.

Being educated is one thing, but how to use it is another.
 

Texas Bill

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Now that you've bled all over us about how much money is being spent by the USA on INDIAN students (while trying to blacken certain eyes), let's get back on the subject of HOW to motivate Dominican students IN THE LOWER GRADES and at the same time motivate the parents of those students AND the "government" at the same time in an effort to increase the validity of "EDUCATION" in the Dominican Republic.

What are you contributions(???) to this forum while being positive???

Texas Bill
 
Texas Bill said:
Now that you've bled all over us about how much money is being spent by the USA on INDIAN students (while trying to blacken certain eyes), let's get back on the subject of HOW to motivate Dominican students IN THE LOWER GRADES and at the same time motivate the parents of those students AND the "government" at the same time in an effort to increase the validity of "EDUCATION" in the Dominican Republic.

What are you contributions(???) to this forum while being positive???

Texas Bill

ouch that hurts Mr. Bill, be nice.

I like to use examples, and DR and I hope you for that matter do not live in a vacuum. There is always cause and effect. This is a global economy. How Dominicans are educated at grade level or college has a impact on how the world views the island. There is no perception of educational excellence on the island and we can start by previous post in other threads to use in the argument, but the perception has to change. I used India because there is a percieved perception that if they are educated by the powers that be or by themselves they become immediate players in the world game. DR must do the same, if they don't, then they will continue to be servants to people such as yourself an others for the tourist market. Motivations start by creating possibliites beyond "catering to others pleasures" Once a group of poeple understand that their value is worth more than that, then they can move forward. So for one you must create value within themselves and self worth.
At this point for many it does not exist, thats why the church must play an important role. YOu don't have to have the greatest books to educate a child. If you need to make copies so be it. If you have to right alphabet on the dirt ground, so be it. The child has to understand by others that their is value to what they are learning. Same at the College level. Many graduate with college degrees on the island, yet cannot demand strong salaries. Again, there is no value defined once that is achieved.

THATS MY POINT.

Think outside the bubble.
 
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Criss Colon

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If the above post,with all it's nonsense,misspelled words,

and misguided ideas is an example of someone who has gone to "Graduate School",there is no hope for any of us!!I'll continue getting my education from "Life",costs a lot less than graduate school,and I know the difference between "Right" and "Write",and also between "Then" and "Than"!
Another example of "Affirmative Action" in Action! CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCc
 

pati

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Feb 3, 2004
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sancochojoe said:
look, tourism is the bread and butter of this country. Why would there be any motivation to strengthen the economic amd educational atmosphere when many people there are prepped to service that industry.

Maybe that's the point. If you are more educated then your options become broader. The more educated the population becomes the more opportunity the country has for getting into the technological and manufacturing markets. Never mind what the US does for someone else. "God takes care of those who take care of themselves".It starts at home.
 
pati said:
Maybe that's the point. If you are more educated then your options become broader. The more educated the population becomes the more opportunity the country has for getting into the technological and manufacturing markets. Never mind what the US does for someone else. "God takes care of those who take care of themselves".It starts at home.

I agree with you Pati. Home is always the foundation and the government needs to work on stronger educational programs. God also helps those who can't help themselves as well. Don't think he would be God if he didnt. At least thats what I believe.

Colon, you are a very angry person and assume a lot. So sad, misguided and miseducated. I'm waiting for the day when you actually write more than one paragraph. Affirmative action did not help me earn a 3.8 in Grad and a 3.2 in undergrad, but I could have bought it at a flea market. :classic:

But make sure you put spaces between words, work on your incomplete sentences and improper punctuations, then come talk to me.
 

Texas Bill

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Again, I read many good comments, but no real solutions to the problem!

Historically, this country has been one of very low education levels. Not necessarily in the area of Higher Education, as some would lead us to believe, but virtually starting at the lowest levels where and when the elements of concentration, ethics, integrity and general knowledge of the world around us are necessarily taught.

You cannot, I repeat, cannot, blame foreign countries and corporations for the lack of education here because they have nothing to do with it, and rightfully so. Education is the responsibility of the individual's parents in that they alone are responsible for preparing their children for their role in life, however high, or low that may be.

The framework for a proper educational system in this country is in place. The people themselves have to make it work for the benefit of their children. That difficulty is compounded by their own lack of education and by the endemic corruption of the governmental systems.

Force the government to allocate the funds appropriated to Local School
Boards, headed by Responsible, Dedicated Citizens that will respond to the demands of their constituents and you will BEGIN to get a better system.

Big Business, both here and elsewhere is interested in the education system only insofar as it produces the workforce needed by that/those businesses.
One should NOT expect businesses to jump on their bandwagon in this regard. That is both juvenile and wishful thinking. Businesses MAY augment the further education of Some of their employees if it is in their interest to do so, but one should not expect any more than that.

I reiterate, Education starts at the students home and should involve the entire family. No more, no less.

Texas Bill
 
Texas,

I agree with some of your points, BUT.

You shouldn't expect any solution for something that is complicated as educating children. It may sound simple enough but it is very difficult. You should only expect commentary, opinions and suggestions on what is best, but actual solutions for implementing would be a overhall. Do you thing the US would have a Department of Education if there was an easy solution to educating children. Heck no, so why would it be that easy for The Dominican Republic to do the same.

I believe 100% that educating starts in the home, but what if the home is uneducated. What if mama and grandma cannot read and write. What then. You have no choice but to look for outside help such as the public school, church support and government funding. Homes like that look for that help. People in general and children in specific are not cut from the same mold which may be hard for you to believe but lets face it, educating everyone's child is very difficult and each family have unique situations to deal with in the home. i.e. level of education, financial situations, health, safety, food etc.

If we could start with a plan, you would first have to look at:

1. what plans does the Dominican Republic have, currently
2. How are they implenting the plan
3. Is it actually being implemented
4. Can it work or is it working
4. What amendments need to be made
5. How is it being funded i.e. taxes, nonprofit, tourism revenue, luxary taxes.

Thats a heavy burden on a poor country when the tax base cannot fund education. The US is lucky to collect Real Estate tax to pay for education, but I doubt DR uses that method and if they do, you have an answer of why schools are not funded very well.
 
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Texas Bill

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sancochojo(forgive misspelling,plz)

I agree with you, in principal!

In my country, more educated minds than mine have wrestled with the subject for longer than I have lived and we Still have huge pockets of uneducated and marginally educated populations. The solutions/suggestions I have offered are still valid within themselves and we still have corruption of integrity within the system in that many school systems would have most of the students graduated, regardless of their performances, in order to render the impression of a quality education. It is only when some of those students arrive at the institutions of higher learning that their true lack of knowledge is exposed.

It is the mandate of ANY educational system to instruct their student bodies to the limits of their abilities.

It is the "Peter Principal" that must be applied in education; ie., "Promotion to the limit of their individual incompetance", which, when you really think about it, ain't such a bad idea afterall. At the very least, those who will not benefit from an academic education can be identified and offered another solution to education. Technical Schools in metal work, carpentry, etc., etc.

The latter being the area in which the industrial base should be encouraged to participate in through loans, grants, etc. In my own background, I attended such a school sponsored by Reed Roller Bit and learned to operate many of the metalworking machines, ie., turret lathes, bench lathes, milling machines and the like. Such training, in addition to my academic education, stood me in good stead in later years in that I fully understood conditions the "workers" were exposed to and their mindset.

Again, my reference to the "swamp" and the "alligators" comes to mind. The solutions to the many sociatal problems are by no means simple. Those solutions require a very deep thought process garnered from many minds. The solutions offered in this forum has only scratched the surface and our imlements require frequent sharpening in order to continue digging.

I leave you with this thought:

The collective minds of men represent an infathomable resevoir of knowledge which must be collected, collated and implimented in a form that benefits the whole and , hopefully, provides a solution which is both economically and socially feasible to the problem being confronted. To that end, those solutions which prove to be unworkable must be cast aside and relegated to obscurity, whereas, those solutions which SEEM to be relevent, must continue to be explored and disected in order to arrive at the best which fulfills the requirements.

In the matter of education, governments should ONLY provide the basic vehicles of implimentation and guidance, because their inner workings are not equipped to render the complete solutions.

Texas Bill
 

XanaduRanch

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Criss Colon said:
If any "Graduate School" gave you a "3.8",you should get your money back! CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
Any social engineering project, however benevolent or well intentioned, is doomed to become an abject failure unless the individuals in the society have some incentive to make the change.

In the 21st century there are only two methods governments use to make social policy.

Most democracies attempt this trough taxation. "We'll give you back some of the money we took from you if you spend it the way we want you to. On house, not cigarettes. On college, not alcohol, etc." The problem, is that to make that work, you have to have very high rates of taxation, and even then people (shock!) spend their money on the things they want to spend it on (shame!). The DR does not have anywhere near the level of universal taxation that would make tax incentives for social change an option here.

The other way is through force. If you don't move where we want you to, we'll shoot you. Or shoot your kids. Or shoot you and your kids. So study hard or we'll kill you, and then shoot you some more. That method works pretty well until the day the people get fed up of losing their family members and shoot the shooters. That's been tried here and worked.Unfortunately outside of an almost flagellistic desire to vote for Baldy in exchange for cement and zinc I doubt very many people here really want Trujillo back just to boost test scores.

The governments of United States of the 18th and 19th century didn't force education on it's citizens of the time. Individuals recognized that knowledge is the route to power and wealth and became the driving force behind creating those institutions. Individual Dominicans will have to see that their future depends on their education, and educational system, and then have the will power to enforce the change. It simply can't be forced from the top down.

But I don't see it happening here anytime soon.

Tom aka XR Why doesn't Tarzan have a beard?
 

Rick Snyder

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Education in the DR

Texas Bill,
This is the subject that has had my interest for the last year and has me in a complete outrage at present.
To determine which school here in Seybo would be the best for my son to attend I started a survey of the children in town between the ages of 6 to 15 as to who knew the alphabet. After questioning 183 children I learned that 97.3% of the children did not know how many letters their alphabet contained and did not know in which order the letters are arranged. After learning this I expanded my survey to my normal travels, Santo Domindo, Boca Chica, Hauto Mayor, San Pedro, Romana and Higuey and expanded the age up to 26. After questioning 3,873 people I was astonished to learn that the percentage rate of those that did not know the alphabet or how many letters are in it was still very high 94%. It was at this point that I started an experiment of carrying a Spanish dictionary around and would ask people to look up the word ?mojigateria? for me. I picked a word that started with ?m?, the 15th letter of their alphabet, in order to see where in the dictionary they would begin to look. Almost everyone would open the dictionary to the front and start looking there instead of opening the dictionary to the middle.
I have visited a number of pre-schools and schools and have learned that in the pre-school and first grade they teach the 5 vowels first and then incorporate letters to put with the vowels to form syllables and words ie., a,e,i,o,u,ma,me,mi,mo,mu,mama. This is done without first explaining what an alphabet is or how many letters it contains.
I took it upon myself to teach my son and 9 other children in our barrio how to recite the Spanish alphabet in song form as we learned ours in the US. I was able to do this in 2 sessions of half an hour each session. That was two years ago and those 10 children still remember their alphabet to this day.
Four months ago I started communicating with the Dept of Ed here in the DR in the hopes of interesting them into incorporating learning to recite the alphabet into their curriculum and it has fallen on deft ears. I have tried in a number of schools with the same results but when I ask a teacher if their students where to come to their class already knowing how to recite the alphabet would that be easier on you as a teacher to teach,and they all replied yes.
Am I willing to take part in this? You can bet your bibby I would. I have tried to engage a number of professionals in this regard with no outcome. I have told them that I don?t want to change their way of educating I just want them to expand on what they already have...........The cost for this idea of learning to recite the alphabet? NOTHING!
Attached is a letter that I have been passing out in the hopes that it might change some minds:

Es una realidad que para ser capaz de leer y escribir una persona debe primero de saber las letras del alfabeto. A que edad una persona aprende esas letras dictadas, a que edad ellos pueden empezar a aprender a leer y a escribir. Con esto en mente es l?gico decir que es el mas joven es una persona cuando aprende las letras de el alfabeto mas r?pido ellos son capaz de aprender a leer y escribir. La 29 letras de el alfabeto hacen 26 sonidos distintos y cuando una persona recita el alfabeto ellos autom?ticamente pronuncian 25 de esos sonidos. Por tanto es l?gico que si un ni?o es ense?ado a recitar el alfabeto tu les ense?as 4 cosas ;

1. Que es el alfabeto.
2. Cuantas letras contiene.
3. La correcta pronunciaci?n de el sonido que 28 de esas letras hacen.
4. En cual orden las letras est?n.


Aprender el orden de la letras juega una parte importante en la vida cuando una persona empieza a trabajar con cosas que est?n alfabetizada tales como el diccionario o gu?a telef?nica son 2 ejemplos.

Si un ni?o es ense?ado a recitar el alfabeto antes que ellos entren al primer grado hace el trabajo de el profesor mucho mas f?cil cuando ellos incluyen las vocales y las otras letras para ser usada conjuntamente con las vocales para formar silabas y palabras. Si el ni?o ya sabe que son las letras y puede recitar el alfabeto el profesor no esta guiando el ni?o hacia un mundo desconocido.

Yo he desarrollado una manera para ense?ar a los ni?os de 4 a?os y mas viejo a como recitar el alfabeto y yo puedo hacerlo en dos secciones de media hora cada secci?n. Una vez que ellos aprendan a recitar el alfabeto permanecer? con ellos para siempre. Esta es una promesa.

Regards, Rick
 
obviously there is a lot of assumptions about the level of education here.
So what is everyones assumptions about education in DR.
There are some facts and that is 82% of Dominicans are literate thats actually more than the US which stands at about 75%. So are we talking advanced education or what.

We are not talking about teaching kids how to split atoms. We are talking basic formal education or are we steering it to moral and social education.

Just trying to be clear. There can be different points of argument in this discussion.

thanks