Let this be a lesson to us all

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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The tragedy in Jiman? was caused by Man. The River Silli? ( a creek in Texas or West Virginia) enters Dominican territory from Hait?. In the watershed of the little creek there are no trees. They have all been cut down for firewood and charcoal.
Each little raindrop of the 254 mm (about 10 inches?) that fell in the area over the prior 24 hours, raised up just a tiny amount of mud. There was no escape from the wall of mud and water that rushed down the Silli?. Just last night the National Geographic channel had a show on mudslides and land slides.
There will be hundreds of dead. We will probably never know exactly how many.
If any person in the Dominican Republic needs a message about the value of the forest cover, let this be it. Pictures of the dead stacked like cordwood should be in every school, in every office in every house....all because There were no trees

HB
 

mami

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Mar 16, 2004
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well said!!!!

a lot of people there are too irresponsible when it comes to anything to do with enviroment and it is catching up with them quick.
 
Agree

The Haitians have ravage their landscape and it looks like the moon or Mars "barren". A tragedy that was caused by an inept non caring government of the country and the lack of education of the populace. Don't let this kind of thing happen in the DR, as HB says take heed and learn the value of trees and reforestation.

We also have had a deluge of rain (4+ inches) over the past weekend, creeks and rivers rose, some flooding of low lying area's but no loss of life, no mud slides, all due to trees and building regulations.
 

frank alvarez

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Apr 13, 2004
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The Haitian Experience

It has been a traditional custom for the Haitians to cut down the trees to make charcoal as cooking fuel. This practice has devastated the country and when you fly over the island you can clearly see the brown mountains of Haiti compared to the green ones of the Dominican Republic. However, this practice has crept over the border, especially into the backwards southwest, where authorities look the other way, by way of a pay-off, in order to now destroy our forests to sell the charcoal to Haiti or the local market. I still see occasional trucks full of charcoal heading from the southwest to Santo Domingo.

In addition, I have the misfortune of having to travel the Bani-Santo Domingo highway on a regular basis and witness the dozens of trucks full of sand and gravel being taken from the riverbeds. These trucks not only are contributing to kill our rivers but also complicate traffic flow in this narrow highway and make driving it much more dangerous. In addition, their poorly covered truck beds let fly rocks which destroy windshields regularly; I have been running around with a cracked windshield for over a year and do not replace it since I get these pings constantly while driving this infernal highway. And the authorities?...Very well, thank you.
 

Tony C

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Jan 1, 2002
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Off all the Liberal Tree hugging audacity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why do you think that they cut down those trees? To improve the view?
I guess you guys believe that it is better to starve than to spoil your precious river!
 

Mirador

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Apr 15, 2004
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let's not blame the Haitians

"Don't let this kind of thing happen in the DR, as HB says ..."

Unfortunately, it's already happening. Not long ago, I took some picture in Azua, where deforastation is already taking its toll, some of the pictures were published in the first page of local newspapers. Then I got some messages accusing me of having taken the pictures in Haiti. Someone even screamed at me that I was 'trying to make us look like savages'. Haitianization in the Southeast has already begun. I mean the loss of top soil, where only the bare bedrock is left, and not even goats can survive. In some places we have reached the point of no return.

Mirador
 

frank alvarez

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Apr 13, 2004
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haven't they heard of gas and electricity?

Tony C said:
Off all the Liberal Tree hugging audacity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why do you think that they cut down those trees? To improve the view?
I guess you guys believe that it is better to starve than to spoil your precious river!

So it's ok to leave the land bare for future generations just so they don't have to get other alternative fuels? Haven't they heard of gas or electricity?

In the worst case, for every tree they knock down they should plant 10! Fortunately, the DR has become aware and has had programs like Quisqueya Verde where millions of trees have been planted. We still have time to avoid becoming Haitianized!
 

Keith R

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Jan 1, 2002
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Tony C said:
Off all the Liberal Tree hugging audacity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why do you think that they cut down those trees? To improve the view?
I guess you guys believe that it is better to starve than to spoil your precious river!
And if they ruin the land and its prospects for growing food in the process, that somehow makes sense or is ok to you, Tony?
 

jsizemore

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Aug 6, 2003
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starving people cant afford to care

If there was only one snow goose left in the workld and it landed beside a starving man he would eat it.
I think the point being made is to prevent this same disaster in the DR everyone needs to prevent this kind of hopelessness.
Having said that are there any fast growing tropical trees similar to the Poplar in temperate zones that could be used to make charcoal? A little steardship could alleviate many problems.
John
 

Tony C

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Keith R said:
And if they ruin the land and its prospects for growing food in the process, that somehow makes sense or is ok to you, Tony?
Hard to tell people not to cut down a tree for tomorrow when they are hungry today!
I just can't believe how some self-absorb, self-appointed protectors of the earth can act like as if these people deserved what happened to them.
These people are just struggling to survive.
You want to help the enviroment? Help Business. The better the economy then the people will have money to have electric stoves and to buy wood & Concrete to build houses.
 

Barnabe

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jsizemore said:
Having said that are there any fast growing tropical trees similar to the Poplar in temperate zones that could be used to make charcoal? A little steardship could alleviate many problems.
John

Coconut husks, Acacia Mangium, Eucalyptus?

Barnab?
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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There have been some interesting comments about the causes of this tragedy and I think they are all valid. It has to be a combination of deforestation, construction on the flood plains (although I saw somewhere that there had not been a flood in this place for a century, so climate change may also be a factor), by people who prioritise the short-term above the long-term, authorities who do not care enough about the dangers to evict people from flood-prone areas, who do not care enough about the people to provide them with housing in safer areas, and care too much about their short-term popularity to risk alienating voters by evicting them.

It is certainly due to poor disaster preparedness. When there are hurricanes and flooding in other parts of the region - Puerto Rico, the US and Cuba come to mind - there is much material damage but usually very few casualties, because these places have well-organised and implemented disaster preparedness systems.

In Haiti there is no alternative to charcoal, unfortunately. If offered a realistic alternative people would stop using it, or at least start managing it sustainably. I once visited a project in the south west of the DR where this sort of 'dry forest management' is being promoted.

In the north east of Haiti where people are growing coffee for export they are making sure the tree cover is expanded and conserved, because coffee needs shade. The impact on the area's ecosystem has been impressive, together with the fact that people now have something approaching a livelihood through the sale and export of their crop. Once people can satisfy their basic needs they can reflect on the longer term, rather than short-term survival, and this is what has happened in the coffee producing communities. The people there are working with the charcoal burners, teaching them to cut only certain types of tree, and to cut the wood in a way that does not kill the tree.

It'll be a while before most Haitians are at a stage where they can afford gas cookers and a regular supply to domestic gas, which is what has made such a huge difference to the environment in the DR.

Chiri
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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As usual, you have hit the nail on the head

There are several dry forest projects, one in Mao and others in the South.
There are different trees that can be used, like Leucaena, mesquite, Pi?on and others.

However, as TonyC points out, survival comes first and in Hait? and the poorest regions of the DR, no thought is given to tomorrow or next year. Today is enough of a problem for them. To solve this, huge, international intervention and supervision is needed, like the Canadian Dominican and Haitian efforts in the Artibonito watershed. I don't know how far along this has gotten but it is a good first step.

Unfortunately, Chiri, I don't think we will see much progreee in our lifetimes...given the track record so far.

HB