DR should be top dog

jsizemore

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Why has the DR not become the Singapore of the Americas. It seems to me that the DR has the harbors and location. Singapore lives off transshipment for the entire region. It is rich without hardly any of its own natural resources. It seems the DR could do the same.
Also why is sugar such a problem child. It seems to me the same growing techniques for sugar cane could be used to raise millet or feed sorghum and be then used for cattle, hog and poultry feed and still keep the profit per acre up. Now for rice I do not understand this issue at all. The same fields that are used to grow rice can be used to raise aqua culture products. Even if there is no market for human consumption there is a marker to make food for salmon farms. When I was looking up Cray fish species for the DR I found that the crayfish there are not native. In fact the Species in the DR as the Red Swamp Cray fish used in Louisiana for commercial production.
Every time I am there I see what could be and I wonder why it is not. I mean hell the DR should be a first world economy. They have the location and the resources.
Just venting
John
 

Criss Colon

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It is partly due to the Dominican Culture!

A Dominican would rather steal a peso than work for one.Then when they have some pesos in their pocket,they won't work until they are broke again.Interest rates here are in the stratosphere.If you borrow money to start a business,you go bust paying the interest! The government steals about 50% of the GNP,maybe more! No one pays their debts.There is no electricity,water,health care,education,or highway maintenance.
That is just a start as to why this place will forever be a"Developing" Country!!
Read the DR1 Daily News! You will see what I mean!
Cris Colon
 

Jerry K

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When you say Bud

Jesus, Criss, when you say Bud, you said it all.
What a great post, talk about a thumbnail description of the situation!
Close enough to win the "in 25 words or less" contest.
Hell, If we didn't like a little chaos we'd all be living in some Limey colony like Cayman.
 
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backinthedr

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Right on!!

Jerry K said:
Jesus, Criss, when you say Bud, you said it all.
What a great post, talk about a thumbnail description of the situation!
Close enough to win the "in 25 words or less" contest.
Hell, If we didn't like a little chaos we'd all be living in some Limey colony like Cayman.
And when you say "Bud" be prepared to shell out $6.00 C.I.($7.50 U.S) and alot of attitude to go with it......like they say...if you cant take the heat..get out of the kitchen!!!!!!!
 

chuckuindy

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Criss Colon said:
A Dominican would rather steal a peso than work for one.Then when they have some pesos in their pocket,they won't work until they are broke again.Interest rates here are in the stratosphere.If you borrow money to start a business,you go bust paying the interest! The government steals about 50% of the GNP,maybe more! No one pays their debts.There is no electricity,water,health care,education,or highway maintenance.
That is just a start as to why this place will forever be a"Developing" Country!!
Read the DR1 Daily News! You will see what I mean!
Cris Colon

Chris you are right on the money this time. However with out this type of environment where would all of us old, fat, gringos go to find a the 18-25 year old beauties that love us so much in the Dominican Republic?

Charlie
 

Guatiao

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I feel your pain

I know what you mean, The Dominican Republic is in the perfect geographical location to be a very strong economical country. But yet we like Criss sad have some messed up attitude towards work and goodwill. For example we use 92% of fossil fuels which the price has risen therefore we have little or no light, if the government and private finicial sector would care we would use invest in other sources such as hydrogen, wind, etc. but it costs to much now therefore we will keep using oil. We have great fertile land we do not need to import many products but the government would rather import Plantanos from nicaragua. I was shocked when I learned New Zealand is richer than the Dominican Republic.
Not to bash my people but I feel that we are very lazy we would rather travel to the great US and work here for cheap labor than work in our own country (im not trying to be a hypocrite) but we complain about Haitians the same way Americans complain about Latinos and other immigrants. Our government we all know is corrupt, if they really cared about the people they would try to at least make things feel a little bit more comfortable at least in the food and health sector, everything else the lazya** Dominicans should get off there porch and start helping for any amount of wage and try to be more self-efficient and manage there money better. I cannot explain how countries like Japan, Singapore, etc. are so wealthy or better off than the DR when they barely have ecological resources. Somebody explain that? DR businessmen should at least try to enter the Technological Revolution instead of trying to be the next Leon Jimenes Group. Im mad too about our state of economy and my property losing value as the days go bye.
 

jsizemore

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What is needed

What would it take? Just watching things over the last two years or so this is what I have observed. Taxes go up and down by presidential decree and anyone in business cannot count on any kind of stable regulations. When ever I have talked about anything with any DR1 member and they tell me prices they give me the dollar price and always qualify it with plus import duties. They can never tell me what the duties are because no one really knows.
So in my humble opinion if the following would happen the DR could become the Singapore of the Americas. Transparency of regulating authorities ( Customs, Taxes, Safety, and so forth.) with stable tax laws. Duty free zones for transshipments. Regulations allowing businesses inside the duty free zones at the ports to produce their own power and import the fuel for production duty free. With free flow of goods and supply inside the zones then the ports would become isolated from the problems of DR as a whole and yet let the DR gain the economic benefit from the transactions.
If this and of course a few other things could happen then I feel with out the DR having to fork out the money I feel the DR could become the perfect shipping terminal for the Americas.
Will any of this happen? Of course not. That would require no graft or kick backs.
John
P.S. in the 80s over 25% of chinas GNP flowed through Hong Kong. A small isolated indepandant city with there own rules and government.
 
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Adrian Bye

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chuckuindy said:
Chris you are right on the money this time. However with out this type of environment where would all of us old, fat, gringos go to find a the 18-25 year old beauties that love us so much in the Dominican Republic?

I thought they were looking for a "Powerful Man"?
 

Formosano2000

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My two cents.....

capodominicano said:
I cannot explain how countries like Japan, Singapore, etc. are so wealthy or better off than the DR when they barely have ecological resources. Somebody explain that?

I had asked myself this very questions years ago. Now that I've lived here for 5 years straight, I think it really boils down to:


1. Lack of motivation: By and large, the desire to aim for excellence is not there. People want shortcuts. They don't want to put in the effort to improve. They don't want to trade today's sacrifice for tomorrow's gain.

2. Lack of education: This is the number one reason in my book. Without education, people will never become upwardly mobile and will always be easily manipulated. Name any developed country in the world with a poorly educated mass !

3. Lack of saving: Debt debt and more debt !! Both on personal and national level.

In the case of both Japan and Singapore, people are highly motivated, highly educated and have some of the highest personal saving rates. And they STILL work their butts off despited what they have achieved !

Ecological resources in my book are irrelevant. Israel, Taiwan, Hong Kong are all land-poor. But all have impressive world-class economies.
 

NALs

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Formosano2000 said:
Ecological resources in my book are irrelevant. Israel, Taiwan, Hong Kong are all land-poor. But all have impressive world-class economies.

Out of all of those you mention, I think only Taiwan deserves to be praised for lifting itself off its butt!

Hong Kong, was a British Colony for who knows when! They were returned to China in 2000 and since then their economy has been falling, in fact, most Hong Kong folks are moving to Singapore!!

Israel receives $3 billion in aid from the USA alone. That is the total amount the US gives to every single other developing country combined!! The DR only gets $300 million!!

Singapore was more self motivated than the other ones you mentioned, but keep in mind that Singapore was and still is a strict republic. You can and do get slaped with a $250 fine just for yawning without covering your mouth. In fact, this past April the Singapore government made it legal for Gum to be sold, but God forbid you chew it in public!! $430 fine for eating in the Subway!! $1,000 fine if you drive into the central part of the city at a certain time of the day!! Singapore is successful, but man strict as heck!

The DR is too free (do what you want kind of place), it doesn't get enough aid (When Kennedy was in power the DR was the largest recipient of aid from the USA and the DR economy grew, afterwards the aid fell, there went the prosperity)! And the last time the DR was a colony was back in 1821!
 
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jsizemore

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above true

While I agree the above is true Is till feel that with a simple change in regulations and open accounting the investments would come and prosperity could happen.
John
 

Conchman

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The DR cannot become a powerhouse like Singapore until corruption is minimized, and that my friend, will be a long, long, long time. Its the largest single reason for creating the obstacles that hinder progress.
 

KenoshaChris

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NaOwls, is there any reason why your post above has 18 exclamation marks? You even have one where there should be a question mark!

Punctuation Police
 

Texas Bill

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Nal0whs said:
Out of all of those you mention, I think only Taiwan deserves to be praised for lifting itself off its butt!

Hong Kong, was a British Colony for who knows when! They were returned to China in 2000 and since then their economy has been falling, in fact, most Hong Kong folks are moving to Singapore!!

Israel receives $3 billion in aid from the USA alone. That is the total amount the US gives to every single other developing country combined!! The DR only gets $300 million!!

Singapore was more self motivated than the other ones you mentioned, but keep in mind that Singapore was and still is a strict Monarchy. There is absolutley no voting what so ever and you can and do get slaped with a $250 fine just for yawning without covering your mouth. In fact, this past April the Singapore monarchy made it legal for Gum to be sold, but god forbid you chew it in public!! $430 fine for eating in the Subway!! $1,000 fine if you drive into the central part of the city at a certain time of the day!! Singapore is successful, but man strict as heck!

The DR is too free (do what you want kind of place), it doesn't get enough aid (When Kennedy was in power the DR was the largest recipient of aid from the USA and the DR economy grew, afterwards the aid fell, there went the prosperity)! And the last time the DR was a colony was back in 1821!

Aid from the US has not a single thing to do with the problem, so get off that old kick.
The problem, my friend, is that this country is so embroiled in "freedom" that it doesn't want anything else!
I don't know about Israel, but Singapore and Taiwan have a population that has a WORK ETHIC and doesn't whine about being slighted on aid from the US. They just put their noses to the grindstone, tough it out and get the job DONE! While here are a few large electronic factories in Taiwan, a MAJORITY of the assembly parts are made in HOME INDUSTRIES by family groups who work their butts off 16-18 hours a day and produce a fairly good product with a minimum of investment!
As for Singapore, it has always been a port that has been involved in transshipping from the early days of British ownership. The expertice was there and the government encouraged the expansionism necessary to become larger. And they did it without US Aid!
They didn't whine about not having--they just put their noses to the grindstone and did what had to be done to get the job done. Something the average Dominican can't seem to grasp. They're too busy trying to get something for nothing or a "connection".
You as much as admitted that this country can't get by witout getting "AID" from somewhere, that you have to be supported because you don't have the wherewithal intrinsincly to take the BEST advantage of that AID, so Why SHOULD YOU EXPECT TO CONTINUE GETTING HANDOUTS from the US or anyone else???
It seems to me that after all these years you'd finally figure out the solution to the problem. YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELVES FOR A CHANGE!!!

Texas Bill
 

jsizemore

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feasable

As mentioned above that aid may be needed but I feel the aid would be in the form of direct investment. A stable tax code with a duty free zone for transshipment. The freedom for the companies to produce and procure all there own resources so as to not be hampered by the existing infrastructure and then it would be investments by corporations.
How much of the needed port facilities are currently in place? I really do not see much needed in relative terms. Stable regulations, the ability to produce the power needed by the companies for self use. US companies flag ships under other nations all the time and this would not be a far leap.
As mentioned in other threads about the DR being a good spot for an international air hub due to the US anti terrorist immigration safeguards. This makes sense to me as a perfect way point for a shipping hub. It is close enough to the route through the Panama Canal allow containers to be routed as needed.
I see that all that is holding the DR back from that idea is the government corruption. Regardless of what stereotypes people have for the Dominicans I feel that the best and brightest can always be found if a company wants them. No aid request needed. Just the right legislation and see what happens.
John
 

NALs

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KenoshaChris said:
NaOwls, is there any reason why your post above has 18 exclamation marks? You even have one where there should be a question mark!

Punctuation Police

Punctuation Police? Alright! How much will the ticket be?

And no, I just notice my over-abundance of exclamation marks! Oops, there's one.

Sorry officer, it won't happen again, promise! :cheeky:
 

NALs

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Texas Bill said:
Aid from the US has not a single thing to do with the problem, so get off that old kick.
The problem, my friend, is that this country is so embroiled in "freedom" that it doesn't want anything else!
I don't know about Israel, but Singapore and Taiwan have a population that has a WORK ETHIC and doesn't whine about being slighted on aid from the US. They just put their noses to the grindstone, tough it out and get the job DONE! While here are a few large electronic factories in Taiwan, a MAJORITY of the assembly parts are made in HOME INDUSTRIES by family groups who work their butts off 16-18 hours a day and produce a fairly good product with a minimum of investment!
As for Singapore, it has always been a port that has been involved in transshipping from the early days of British ownership. The expertice was there and the government encouraged the expansionism necessary to become larger. And they did it without US Aid!
They didn't whine about not having--they just put their noses to the grindstone and did what had to be done to get the job done. Something the average Dominican can't seem to grasp. They're too busy trying to get something for nothing or a "connection".
You as much as admitted that this country can't get by witout getting "AID" from somewhere, that you have to be supported because you don't have the wherewithal intrinsincly to take the BEST advantage of that AID, so Why SHOULD YOU EXPECT TO CONTINUE GETTING HANDOUTS from the US or anyone else???
It seems to me that after all these years you'd finally figure out the solution to the problem. YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELVES FOR A CHANGE!!!

Texas Bill

TB, I think we all know that. So why would I mention AID, well because AID is a huge part of Israel's day to day functioning and the other poster mentioned Israel as a prosperous place. How many people live in Israel? Off the top of my head I'll say 8 million, maybe less. How much aid do they get from the USA (not counting European countries aid)? About $3 Billion a year. In my opinion they are getting way much more than they should be getting. I understand they got the Palestinian issues, but $3 Billion is over doing it. Compare that to the DR, a country with a similar population number wise and we only get about $300 million! That comes and goes on the sameday it leaves the boat! I know AID will not solve the country's problems, but if people keep mentioning other countries as successful, countries that are a virtual welfare state of the USA primarily, then I got to pin point the dismal "help" that is being given to the DR, especially compared to Israel.

About Dominicans being too free and not being able to do something for ourselves, well that is a fact that you are giving, with no backup. Think about! The DR has always been ruled by outsiders or intimidated. In the last 40 years have the Dominicans begun to take a real grip at their tragectory into the future, that is 40 years out of 500 years of history! You need to give us some time, besides, the USA was a backwater thirdworld country for the first 100 or so years after it's independence, why would the DR be any different?

You're right! Singapore did it with out US AID, it was British Aid. Do you think that Singapore and Hong Kong would have developed into what they are today if the British were not around? Singapore and Hong Kong were as poor as Haiti before the Brits came and showed them their potential, in addition to taking the Singaporians (I think that's what they are called) and Hong Konians by their hands and showing them how its done! Now, when did that happened in the DR? Gee, all I remember is super powers taking over and telling us how become a parasite for them and how we can give our natural resources to them so they can benefit from it.

I know we have to do something for ourselves, and in fact, most of the wealthiest families in the DR are wealthiest because of that ethic. However, we are dealing with a country where most folks don't think that way. Until the government can "breed" a smarter kind of Dominicans via education, etc. we have to "take care" of the current population. If we try to make Dominican smarter while they starve because they can't figure out that they have to do something for themselves, then we are going to keep getting more welgas, and shootings, and disruptions that will hamper our efforts to fix things the first time around!

In conclusion, I must say that today's world is very different from the past and working one's butt off may not yield the same results as before, just given to the socio-economic position the DR is globally. This globalization deal is a sort of caste system maintain rich countries rich and poor countries poor. What does a person in the first world have to do for unemployment to drop? They have to educate themselves and then they fill those high paying jobs abundant in the First world. What do third world people have to do for unemployment to drop? They must lose hope in higher wages. That is the new world order we live in today and because of that, trying to become wealthy through trade alone won't cut it. It would help, but it won't cut it. Besides, the USA is no longer a manufacturing giant or anything of that sort. The USA is keeping its wealth through trade. It has become a oversized Hong Kong! The DR could seem to challenge the USA trade position between Latin America and Europe, something that could make the USA a bit more weary of the DR. Who knows, if we try to better ourselves this way we could end up being nuked under some false premise, being trade the real culprit behind such act.

The world is not a simple place. Its a complicated ironic and hypocratic place that would only be overcomed with complicated, ironic, and hypocratic solutions. Those are my two cents in all of this.
 
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Criss Colon

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Singapore is a a Monarchy???? Since when??

I guess I missed seeing the King last time I was there!!
When your post starts out with a statement like the above,you loose all credibility with me!!!!
Singapore is "run" by Ethnic Chinese! They are not called the "Jews of the Orient" for nothing! Their storefronts are open 24/7!They sleep "upstairs",you ring the bell at 3 am,down they come!!
Dominicans would be too drunk to walk at that hour!!
What good is "AID" when it is all stolen? What about the 2 Billion US dollars the the government used to "payoff" the 80 biggest depositors of Baninter?That is the real cause of the economic crisis in the DR!
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NALs

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Criss Colon said:
I guess I missed seeing the King last time I was there!!
When your post starts out with a statement like the above,you loose all credibility with me!!!!
Singapore is "run" by Ethnic Chinese! They are not called the "Jews of the Orient" for nothing! Their storefronts are open 24/7!They sleep "upstairs",you ring the bell at 3 am,down they come!!
Dominicans would be too drunk to walk at that hour!!
What good is "AID" when it is all stolen? What about the 2 Billion US dollars the the government used to "payoff" the 80 biggest depositors of Baninter?That is the real cause of the economic crisis in the DR!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

You're right! I confused their political system with that of Thailand. But everything else I've said about Singapore is on target.

Dominicans would be too drunk? Um, I remember calling a friend's house at 1 am from my cell (I don't give folks my cell phone number) in the DR, and they picked it up quite nicely. In fact, they got off their beds and went to pick me up at the Zona because my car tires were punctured and I was not going to change tires that late at night. I guess you only hang with the Dominicans living in the "marginalize" barrios, given that most of them are Haitians, at least in the slums of SDQ most are.

Well, lets see. The $300 million aid comes into the DR with 3/4 of already being destined to something. Either education, infraestructure, or something which must be proven to the US that the 3/4 is being used for what it was intended, otherwise the Aid is suspended. So the other 1/4 is taken by the "officials" in the Palacio. You and I know that corruption is something that might never end. Now tell me, if those $300 million would have been $3 Billion, and only 1/4 is used for corrupt practices, that still leaves a bit over $2 Billion to be invested into the country. Even if Half is taken, that still leaves $1.5 Billion for investment into the country! That's more than enough for the DR to function flawlessly much how Israel is functioning now, despite their Palestinian problems.

Many of those 80 biggest depositors would probably invest in the DR when the economy picks up because they have been shown by Evil Hippo that their wealth is safe in the DR. If the DR would have been getting the aid Israel is getting, this crisis could have easily been avoided. Again, $300 million is peanuts compared to $3 billion.

Again, I'm not saying that the DR should just live off others, just do that until he government invests enough into the education system to change that mindset. Or, lets all be equal and every developing country should only receive the equivalent of $300 million respective to its population. I think much of the world won't be very happy, especially Israel with their current $3 Billion aid.
 

Hillbilly

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OOOh, NawOalas?

this is not true: "besides, the USA was a backwater thirdworld country for the first 100 or so years after it's independence, why would the DR be any different?"

And there were some other inaccuracies, but let's look at this one.

1812: US defeats England, establishes the right to navigate anywhere-freedom of the seas
1823: Monroe Doctrine proclaimed. US threatens war with any European country that tries to colonize any part of America. (In the West Russia is trying to expand South into San Francisco, but that didn't count.)
In the first half of the 19th Centruy: vulcanization, John Deere, McCormick, and the steamboat, to name a few.
In the second half, the Gatling gun, rifles and more steel and coal production than most European contries, cross-country railroads, transoceanic telegraphs and telephones. All before 1890, I think.

Sorry but there is no comparison possible.

To address jsizemore's original post: The new facility at Punta Caucedo, the Multo Modal Port is based on transshipments, but I think I saw in another thread that Jamaica undercut the Dr and has taken away a lot of business.

My own litany is Education, education, education. The DR was 50 years behind the US when I came here 42 years ago, and I am not that sure how far it has caught up. In some areas it has done well. We have some very good schools and health care facilities. We have much better roads. We have outstanding telephone service, so much better than anyplace else in Latin America that it's not funny. We have hotels galoore! Before there was just the Embajador, the Comercial, the old Jaragua's New Annex and the Hispa?ola in all of Santo Domingo, and the Matum and the Mercedes in Santiago. I do not think that Puerto Plata had a real hotel! Nor did Sos?a, or La Romana.

It might be that the current government has so darkened our outlook (and that pun was not intended, honest) that we are down right now. Sizemore has his sights set on doing something constructive and he probably will.
Good Luck.

HB