black Vs Dominican

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d.r.pop

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im sure this has been discussed before but me and my mother are having a discussion, i am half dominican and my mother is italion. my father had black features except he had wavy hair it was kinky and course when he was younger though. i have researched race and black and dominican and everything on race and ethnicity since i was around 13 or 12 im now 16 ive written piles of essays and my mother continues to try and tell me my father is not black. black is a race and dominican is an ethnicity. i never have been to the D.R. and never even was raised to speak spanish. my customs were all american. so when people ask me i am not ignorant i no my father conisdered himself black, when people would he would say he was black dominican. he would make black jokes and he was basically treated as black since he lost alot of connection with the spanish speaking world. so when i am asked what race i am i say i am black dominican and italion. i sometimes say im black and white and sometimes dominican and italion because one cannot identify as a half a race and half an ethnicity its like saying your half cat and half german shephard. but even though i never knew anything about my dominican culture i still resaerch and learn and claim my dominicaness, and even when people ask about my name being jose when i say im half black and half white i say im half dominican, i do not deny it im proud and i wished i learned spanish when i was young because it is so diffucult when your older. but what im saying is i need dominicans to express there opinions on this so i can present this to my mother because she says im not black im dominican when dominican is not a race.....
 

NALs

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d.r.pop said:
im sure this has been discussed before but me and my mother are having a discussion, i am half dominican and my mother is italion. my father had black features except he had wavy hair it was kinky and course when he was younger though. i have researched race and black and dominican and everything on race and ethnicity since i was around 13 or 12 im now 16 ive written piles of essays and my mother continues to try and tell me my father is not black. black is a race and dominican is an ethnicity. i never have been to the D.R. and never even was raised to speak spanish. my customs were all american. so when people ask me i am not ignorant i no my father conisdered himself black, when people would he would say he was black dominican. he would make black jokes and he was basically treated as black since he lost alot of connection with the spanish speaking world. so when i am asked what race i am i say i am black dominican and italion. i sometimes say im black and white and sometimes dominican and italion because one cannot identify as a half a race and half an ethnicity its like saying your half cat and half german shephard. but even though i never knew anything about my dominican culture i still resaerch and learn and claim my dominicaness, and even when people ask about my name being jose when i say im half black and half white i say im half dominican, i do not deny it im proud and i wished i learned spanish when i was young because it is so diffucult when your older. but what im saying is i need dominicans to express there opinions on this so i can present this to my mother because she says im not black im dominican when dominican is not a race.....

I think that the reason why your mother doesn't consider your father black is because Italians (southern italians at least) tend to look a person as black, if that person is 100% black. When she says your father is Dominican instead of black it could be due to one of two things:

1. You live in the U.S. and if you are from Argentina but someone ask you what you are, you will say Argentinian. However, if you are from America caucasian and someone in America ask you what you are, you will say white. Because your father is in the US, your mother doesn't consider him black, not because he is not black, but because he is Dominican first. By saying that he is black while he is in the U.S., that is saying that he is an American black, something that is absolutely not true since he was born in the DR.

2. Because your father is Dominican, he is probably mixed. Because most Dominicans are mixed, despite if the predominant feature are African you can't categorize him as black. When you mix two colors in general (sample white and black) you will get Gray. Its not white and its not black, but its gray. The problem with skin color is that people in the US consider gray black, simply because it has some black in it, totally ignoring the white side. Your father is probably a Mulatto, he's not black or white, he's mulatto and so are you. Despite physical looks, the blood that runs through your veins is a mixture too complex for anyone to truly figure out, but one thing is for sure and that is that you are not 100% black. Because of that, your mother doesn't consider your father or your self as being black and neither should you. But, you being in the US, I know its probably hard to look at this this way. In the US, the tiniest bit of blackness any white person may have is enough to be considered black. That doesn't mean that is true, but it is the way Americans look at the world, mostly because in their subconscious mind the ideas of white supremasy still survive. Although, in our modern times most Americans don't practice or fully believe in this, but due to the history of the US its only natural for a foreigner as myself to make such assumption for why Americans categorize a Mulatto as Black, despite a Mulatto being Mulatto, which is neither white or black.

By the way, I'm a Dominican.

When I'm in the DR (which is most of the time since I live in Santo Domingo) and people ask me what I am, I say I'm white because I am with no mixture in my family what so ever. However, when I'm in another country visiting and people ask me what I am, I say I'm Dominican. Why do I say that? Because if I say that I am white when I'm visiting Germany, they might think that I am a German when I'm not.
 

Larry

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I find it hard to believe you are half Italian when you cannot even spell it ( italion). The other misspellings I can understand for but not that one.
Larry
 

sea

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d.r.pop said:
im sure this has been discussed before but me and my mother are having a discussion, i am half dominican and my mother is italion. my father had black features except he had wavy hair it was kinky and course when he was younger though. i have researched race and black and dominican and everything on race and ethnicity since i was around 13 or 12 im now 16 ive written piles of essays and my mother continues to try and tell me my father is not black. black is a race and dominican is an ethnicity. i never have been to the D.R. and never even was raised to speak spanish. my customs were all american. so when people ask me i am not ignorant i no my father conisdered himself black, when people would he would say he was black dominican. he would make black jokes and he was basically treated as black since he lost alot of connection with the spanish speaking world. so when i am asked what race i am i say i am black dominican and italion. i sometimes say im black and white and sometimes dominican and italion because one cannot identify as a half a race and half an ethnicity its like saying your half cat and half german shephard. but even though i never knew anything about my dominican culture i still resaerch and learn and claim my dominicaness, and even when people ask about my name being jose when i say im half black and half white i say im half dominican, i do not deny it im proud and i wished i learned spanish when i was young because it is so diffucult when your older. but what im saying is i need dominicans to express there opinions on this so i can present this to my mother because she says im not black im dominican when dominican is not a race.....



First let me tell you that I am impressed. You are only 16 and you do know the difference between race and ethnicity.

In my experience I have found that most Dominicans deny their African roots, while they embrace their European side or even "Indian" races. (Although the Indian race has been extinct for oh so many years).

It is in the Dominican culture to think of themselves as "white", specially if they happened to be light skin. I have seen how they fiercely defend their white heritage, and how they claim to be of a mixed races of European and mulattos, but not black.

Relating white to be beautiful and better while undermining blackness as almost shameful.
It is sad to say that this concept is learned. It is a mentality that is hard to break in. It is plain ignorance.
Just like your mother generally Dominicans don't accept the blackness in them.
 

chuckuindy

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Nal0whs said:
By the way, I'm a Dominican.

When I'm in the DR (which is most of the time since I live in Santo Domingo) and people ask me what I am, I say I'm white because I am with no mixture in my family what so ever. However, when I'm in another country visiting and people ask me what I am, I say I'm Dominican. Why do I say that? Because if I say that I am white when I'm visiting Germany, they might think that I am a German when I'm not.

I am not sure if I exactly under stand what you are saying here ?I am with no mixture in my family what so ever?. Like most lily white Americans I would like to believe that I would be referred to as white. The fact is however, that in doing my family history, I have found that my family line consists of, French, American Indian, Italian, Spanish, and French Negro blood lines.

I believe if we are able to go back in history far enough, there are few of us who can say we are without mixture.

Charlie
 

sea

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Nal0whs said:
I think that the reason why your mother doesn't consider your father black is because Italians (southern italians at least) tend to look a person as black, if that person is 100% black. When she says your father is Dominican instead of black it could be due to one of two things:

1. You live in the U.S. and if you are from Argentina but someone ask you what you are, you will say Argentinian. However, if you are from America caucasian and someone in America ask you what you are, you will say white. Because your father is in the US, your mother doesn't consider him black, not because he is not black, but because he is Dominican first. By saying that he is black while he is in the U.S., that is saying that he is an American black, something that is absolutely not true since he was born in the DR.

2. Because your father is Dominican, he is probably mixed. Because most Dominicans are mixed, despite if the predominant feature are African you can't categorize him as black. When you mix two colors in general (sample white and black) you will get Gray. Its not white and its not black, but its gray. The problem with skin color is that people in the US consider gray black, simply because it has some black in it, totally ignoring the white side. Your father is probably a Mulatto, he's not black or white, he's mulatto and so are you. Despite physical looks, the blood that runs through your veins is a mixture too complex for anyone to truly figure out, but one thing is for sure and that is that you are not 100% black. Because of that, your mother doesn't consider your father or your self as being black and neither should you. But, you being in the US, I know its probably hard to look at this this way. In the US, the tiniest bit of blackness any white person may have is enough to be considered black. That doesn't mean that is true, but it is the way Americans look at the world, mostly because in their subconscious mind the ideas of white supremasy still survive. Although, in our modern times most Americans don't practice or fully believe in this, but due to the history of the US its only natural for a foreigner as myself to make such assumption for why Americans categorize a Mulatto as Black, despite a Mulatto being Mulatto, which is neither white or black.

By the way, I'm a Dominican.

When I'm in the DR (which is most of the time since I live in Santo Domingo) and people ask me what I am, I say I'm white because I am with no mixture in my family what so ever. However, when I'm in another country visiting and people ask me what I am, I say I'm Dominican. Why do I say that? Because if I say that I am white when I'm visiting Germany, they might think that I am a German when I'm not.


Perphaps because many people don;t consider themselves to be Black Americans or African Americans is why i have seen the new option .

I have seen in many forms for example schools applications, in the part of where you would indicate your race.

It will say to check whether you are Black/Non-Hispanic, White/Non-Hispanic,or Hispanic/ Latino.
 

NALs

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chuckuindy said:
I am not sure if I exactly under stand what you are saying here ?I am with no mixture in my family what so ever?. Like most lily white Americans I would like to believe that I would be referred to as white. The fact is however, that in doing my family history, I have found that my family line consists of, French, American Indian, Italian, Spanish, and French Negro blood lines.

I believe if we are able to go back in history far enough, there are few of us who can say we are without mixture.

Charlie

If you want to talk about the mixture of nationalities, then yes, I am mixed, but its all European mixtures (mostly Spanish, French and some Dutch).

However, if you want to talk about racial mixture, my family despite being Dominican doesn't have or had any mixture. We have a very accurate heritage knowledge to back this up. My family has been on the island since the 1700s and through all that time, they just married whites or Europeans at first it was probably a racial thing, but know its mostly a social thing.
 

d.r.pop

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im not thread bumping im simply telling every one to please return to the original content of the problem which i stated in the first thread because whether Nal0whs is ethipoian or canadian or somoan it really doesnt have ne thing to do with me and my parents.....stay on topic please....thank you
 

NALs

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sea said:
First let me tell you that I am impressed. You are only 16 and you do know the difference between race and ethnicity.

In my experience I have found that most Dominicans deny their African roots, while they embrace their European side or even "Indian" races. (Although the Indian race has been extinct for oh so many years).

It is in the Dominican culture to think of themselves as "white", specially if they happened to be light skin. I have seen how they fiercely defend their white heritage, and how they claim to be of a mixed races of European and mulattos, but not black.

Relating white to be beautiful and better while undermining blackness as almost shameful.
It is sad to say that this concept is learned. It is a mentality that is hard to break in. It is plain ignorance.
Just like your mother generally Dominicans don't accept the blackness in them.

It can also be said that its shameful that an American mulatto would have to ignore his/her White heritage simply because American society looks at him/her as black, totally ignoring the other half that makes a mulatto.

It is in American culture to look at themselves as "white" when of unmixed blood, but black if a tiny drop of blood is mixed in regardless if the person looks white to begin with. In America there is this notion that people are either white or black, but not mixed between the two. A person of mixed is automatically considered black, as to help keep the remaining whites "pure" and mixed the "unpure" mulatto with the blacks with everything that that implies.

In the US, beautiful is related to white and better while undermining blackness as negative and low class. Even among black Americans, light skin blacks are usually seen as much more beautiful than dark skin blacks and the good hair bad hair thing prevails in the African American community as well.

It is sad to say that this concept is learned. It is a mentality that is hard to break. It is plain ignorance.

Just like his mother, Americans generally don't accept a world of whites, blacks, and mulattos. For them, its only white, black, and other with other consisting of anyone that is neither white or black, but has not one bit of black blood in them.

As you can see, the US and DR as not much different in this regard. Just a change of a few words and each country's race issues are addressed.
 

chuckuindy

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Nal0whs said:
If you want to talk about the mixture of nationalities, then yes, I am mixed, but its all European mixtures (mostly Spanish, French and some Dutch).

However, if you want to talk about racial mixture, my family despite being Dominican doesn't have or had any mixture. We have a very accurate heritage knowledge to back this up. My family has been on the island since the 1700s and through all that time, they just married whites or Europeans at first it was probably a racial thing, but know its mostly a social thing.
Thanks, I see where you ar comming from now. I guess my only question would be, what about pre 1700, or at a time before the island was inhabited?
 

chuckuindy

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Question Please

d.r.pop said:
im not thread bumping im simply telling every one to please return to the original content of the problem which i stated in the first thread because whether Nal0whs is ethipoian or canadian or somoan it really doesnt have ne thing to do with me and my parents.....stay on topic please....thank you

Glad to Bud. I have read it and reread it. Please state what you want to know in the form of a question. What I have read is a statement. What is it that you are searching for exactly?
 

NALs

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chuckuindy said:
Thanks, I see where you ar comming from now. I guess my only question would be, what about pre 1700, or at a time before the island was inhabited?

Much of the heritage of my family that we have knowledge of, goes into pre-1700s timeperiod. Keep in mind that there have only a been a handfull of generations of my family on the island. Before my family migrated to the island, that is when the mixtures occured, but it was european mixtures. Once on the island it was intermarriages with French and Spaniards.

Please, send me a PM if you want more info on my heritage, I hate to turn this thread into my personal debating ring. PM me if you want to know more.

Lets get back to topic.
 

KrackedKris

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Nal0whs said:
It can also be said that its shameful that an American mulatto would have to ignore his/her White heritage simply because American society looks at him/her as black, totally ignoring the other half that makes a mulatto.

It is in American culture to look at themselves as "white" when of unmixed blood, but black if a tiny drop of blood is mixed in regardless if the person looks white to begin with. In America there is this notion that people are either white or black, but not mixed between the two. A person of mixed is automatically considered black, as to help keep the remaining whites "pure" and mixed the "unpure" mulatto with the blacks with everything that that implies.

In the US, beautiful is related to white and better while undermining blackness as negative and low class. Even among black Americans, light skin blacks are usually seen as much more beautiful than dark skin blacks and the good hair bad hair thing prevails in the African American community as well.

It is sad to say that this concept is learned. It is a mentality that is hard to break. It is plain ignorance.

Just like his mother, Americans generally don't accept a world of whites, blacks, and mulattos. For them, its only white, black, and other with other consisting of anyone that is neither white or black, but has not one bit of black blood in them.

As you can see, the US and DR as not much different in this regard. Just a change of a few words and each country's race issues are addressed.

Beside being Xenophobic, you are also Racist
 

d.r.pop

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i would like present some other issues to the table....

A) my mother has a racist boyfriend who also calls my father a nigger often and i think in her mind she is only putting me under the umbrella of dominican so she does not have to face the fact that her kid is a mullato child, because other than one mixed couple in the family we are the only mixed children on her side of the family.

B) i understand the racial mixtures on the island, at one point there was Taino indians? im not sure, european spaniards landed on the island, slaves were brought through, plenty of racial mixing the island was over taken by haitians at one point, something about ttousiant llaoveture or something the islands split up some president pushed the light skinned white thing trough propaganda and what not, my father was from a very poor "black" area of the dominican republic where he was so poor that he was paralyzed till age 8 because of malnutrition, and sorry about the messed up history im rushing....

C) my father is dark dark like the color of a dark chocolate candy bar, his hair has shifted to wavy he was a wide bridged nose and he is 6'5, i understand he is mixed but he is prodominently black...
 

NALs

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KrackedKris said:
Beside being Xenophobic, you are also Racist

I guess sea is also Xenophobic and Racist since I used his wording to describe the situation in the US, just how he/she described the situation in the DR when it comes to race.

Notice people, the first person to bring insults into this great debate has been KrackedKris once again.

For the sake of the continuation of this thread in a professional and respectful manner, lets just ignore this guy. He really should go play with the dirt or something rather than coming here to do nothing more than stirr up feelings and in return, make the discussion ugly as he have done in other threads.

I would suggest the moderator to send a message to KrackedKris, all he seems to do is insult, insult, insult, and more insult, never adding anything constructive to any thread.
 

KrackedKris

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truth hurts huh?

Nal0whs said:
I guess sea is also Xenophobic and Racist since I used his wording to describe the situation in the US, just how he/she described the situation in the DR when it comes to race.

Notice people, the first person to bring insults into this great debate has been KrackedKris once again.

For the sake of the continuation of this thread in a professional and respectful manner, lets just ignore this guy. He really should go play with the dirt or something rather than coming here to do nothing more than stirr up feelings and in return, make the discussion ugly as he have done in other threads.

I would suggest the moderator to send a message to KrackedKris, all he seems to do is insult, insult, insult, and more insult, never adding anything constructive to any thread.


I don't know why you think it insulting when I post facts but not when you pretend to try and post facts

It is not hard to pick apart your posts to see the Xenophobia and racism raise their ugly heads
 

miguel

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It's simple, for me!!

You should tell the same thing that my daughter tells whomever asks her "where are you from"?, she says: I am american, born and raised here. If they still ask "but you look hispanic", she would say: "that's because my father is dominican and my mother is nicaraguan". End of story. If your mother's boy friend is a racist, that it's not your fault since he is the one that is an ignorant jack. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with you saying: I am american but my mother is Italian and father is Dominican. Nothing wrong with saying the truth.
 
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