After All Of This, Can Haitians Be Trusted?

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NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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A couple of nights ago, I met an American couple in the Zona Colonial who were very well educated about anything Dominican. I had such a good conversation about Dominican things, culture, etc. and I was amaze from their responses because most tourists that visit this country are not aware of the magnitude of importance that took place here 500 years ago. Most tourist only see the white sand beaches and that is it, but they don't know how crucial Hispaniola and much more importantly Santo Domingo was for the beginning development of this hemisphere as we know it today.

So, I had to ask, where they got much of their info on the DR? They mentioned a few notable books and then they showed me their travel guide which is from Lonely Planet. I had never seen this book before, and I am impressed with the depth and accuracy this travel guide captured the History of the DR, Haiti and the island before the respective independeces. As I looked through the book, I noticed a few things that made me realized once again why the DR and Haiti can never ever unite.

The following are quotes that I have taken from the book to give most of you an idea of why Dominicans and Haitians can't get along. These quotes as a whole are very self explanatory in answering the question of why Dominicans and Haitians dislike each other.

Keep in mind, words in brackets are my own to clear up a few things and to make sure people see what I see when I read this. After you are done reading, you are more than welcome to criticise my way of thinking or praise it. But, please, if you are going to criticise do it in a constructive manner and offer ways to "fix" the problem. Thank you in advance.

"The Spanish colonists on the eastern half of the island immediately supported the slaves [Haitians] call for independence in a move intended to weaken France's grip on western Hispaniola and perhaps afford Spain a chance to retake the entire island." P. 19-20

"...the slave leaders Jean Francois, Jean Biassou, and Francois Dominique Toussaint L'Ouverture joined with the Spanish frontier commanders in a fight against the French." P. 20 [This was when the Spanish placed their trust on that Haitian]

"...when France abolished slavery in September 1793, Toussaint and his men switched allegiances, taking up arms with French soldiers waging war against the Spaniards [This was only one of many times that the Haitians have played us badly. The Spanish trusted the Haitian leader and he turned against us when he had the chance!]." P. 20

"Fighting continued on Hispaniola until October 1795, when news reached the island that Spain had signed a treaty with France ceding all parts of the island under Spanish control to the French Republic." P. 20

"When news from the emigres reached Santo Domingo, the colony's residents were outraged. Adding to their dismay were reports that English pirates were attacking colonists as they attempted to leave Hispaniola." P. 20

"As time passed Toussaint became increasingly restless ...finally, Toussaint could wait no longer. In January 1801 he marched his troops into Santo Domingo and, without French authority, immediately abolished slavery in the colony." P.20 [This is one of the few good thing that came out from this traitor on the Dominican side]

"Toussaint's control of Santo Domingo lasted less than a year ...Toussaint agreed to meet with the French general Charles Victor Emmanuel Leclerc to discuss a possible treaty. Instead, he was seized at gunpoint and shipped to France, where he died of neglect..." P. 20 [Personally, France should have taken this traitor at gunpoint on the day he switched sides from the Spaniards to the French after they abolished Slavery. From that point forward it was clear that Toussaint couldn't be trusted.]

"In the years that followed, the size of the Haitian army grew... On March 8, 1805, a Haitian force of 21,000 hardened troops attacked the walled city of Santo Domingo, within which were 2,000 defiant French troops and 6,000 residents. The seige lasted three weeks, during which time the residents - who had long since finished their stored food - were forced to consume their horses, donkeys, dogs, cats, and rats." P. 101 [The Haitians thought nothing of stealing land that wasn't theirs to begin with and if they had to create a holocaust to get that land, then they were more than willing to do it as it has been proven during that seige of 1805 of SDQ.]

"...the era of French colonial rule on Hispaniola ended on January 1, 1804, Haiti proclaimed its independence..." P. 21 [That is a day many Dominicans remember as a day of Enphamy! The Haitians had done some hard to Dominicans before their independence, but the worst was jet to come]

"Jean-Jacques Dessalines, who had been one of Toussaint's chief lieutenants, crowned himself emperor of the Republic of Haiti." P.21

"By 1808, many of the emigre Spanish landowners had returned to Santo Domingo and taken steps to ensure that they would never live under French rule. They convinced the Haitians to provide them weapons with which to defend themselves against possible french aggression..." P. 22 [This was when Dominicans began to trust the Haitians, again. Many here were convinced that what happened during Toussaints time was in the past and Haitians were not going to invade Santo Domingo.]

"...on November 30, 1821, Spanish lieutenant governor Jose Nu?ez de Caceres announced the colony's independence from Spain. He named it Spanish Haiti and requested admission to the Republic of Gran Colombia... Before a reply came forth, Haitian leader Jean-Pierre Boyer invaded Santo Domingo and united the country under a single flag." P. 22 [Once again, the Haitians played us with a dirty hand. They turned against Dominicans when they had the chance!]

"For the next 22 years things grew increasingly worse for the Dominican people. Under Haitian rule, soldiers commandeered what they needed from the Dominicans to feed themselves. The Dominicans viewed the Haitians' behavior as criminal. Moreover, the Dominicans tended to view the dark-skinned Haitians as inferiors and resented their authority. For their part, the Haitians disliked the fairer-skinned Dominicans, whom they tended to associate with former slave owners." P.22 [For 22 years Dominicans were the underclass of the Haitians! They treated the animals better than they treated us! No wonder why Dominicans don't have much petty for the Haitians!]

There was a special section in the book about Haitian-Dominican Tension Runs High. Here is a part of it:

"...there is quite a bit of tension between Haitians and the Dominicans. Many Haitians, citing events that took place more than a hundred years ago, fell their neighbors stole territory that rightfully belongs to Haiti. They look at their own barren mountains and then at the pine covered peaks and the fertile valleys of the Dominican Republic with anger.

For the most part, some Dominicans look upon the Haitians as inferiors who live in grinding poverty because that's all they're capable of.

Today, many Dominicans feel that their country is being invaded by its neighbor, and they feel that if the poverty-striken Haitians aren't sent home, the DR will one day be as poor and trouble plagued as Haiti.

...in an effort to ease political tension between the two countries, in 1999 the presidents of Haiti and the DR agreed to attend a concert by musician from both countries in the border town of Dajabon. But when the time came for the bands to strike up a tuen, neither the Haitian musicians nor the president had bothered to show up." P.21 [ Even in our modern day and age, Haitians in power continue to not keep their words. How can we ever get along if the Haitians keep playing us with a dirty hand! I understand that we have some dirt in our fingers too, with the bateyes and such, but those things came out of anger against what the Haitians have done to us! The DR NEVER IN ITS HISTORY had ever attempted to invade Haiti, yet the Haitians helped themselves at trying to make my people, my flag, my merengue, my mangu, my country beatiful women, and my culture extinct. Thanks to God they never destroyed the DR. And based on the historical fact that Haitians turn on you when they get the chance, I believe that they never lost hope of controlling the entire island. The only reason they haven't done it yet, is because we are stronger than they are. But, if they had the chance their armies would had been marching into Dominican territory with a determination of destroying everything and anything that is Dominican, much how they have tried to do it multiple times in the past!]

In the bible it says somewhere, that God would punish those who are greedy, unjust, and uncomformists with poverty, destruction, and misery.

Maybe that explains why Haiti went from being the richest colony on earth, to a country that is poor in every single aspect that makes up a country. Their ambitions to destroy us has driven themselves into the path of destruction!

Now, people bombard me with your criticisms.
 

Chris

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I'll probably regret this reply in a few minutes but anyway, this makes me think of the Arab/Israeli conflict - Why don't you also build a wall Nal0whs? Is what you are saying not just pure racism and hatred mongering and trying to hide this behind historical examples? Anyway, I am already regretting this reply....
 

SalsaBlondie

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it is people with attitudes like yours, Nal0whs that continue to contribute to racism and hatred around the world. the book was stating fact, unfortunately your brackets include some broad generalizations that all haitians are bad. this is equal to me telling you that all dominicans are sankies so im sure you are one too if you had the chance to take advantage of a foreign tourist with more money than you.
I know some dominicans who have married haitians. the integration is coming. it's like when people complain about interracial marriages.. on both sides by the way.. i tell them.. oh well..stop worrying so much... in a few hundred years we will ALL be the same color!
 

Argo

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Aug 5, 2004
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So sad

Chris said:
I'll probably regret this reply in a few minutes but anyway, this makes me think of the Arab/Israeli conflict - Why don't you also build a wall Nal0whs? Is what you are saying not just pure racism and hatred mongering and trying to hide this behind historical examples? Anyway, I am already regretting this reply....


Don't regret in Chris, embrace your willingness to stand up to bigotry and hate

This guy starts out good, but each and every post he makes immediately takes a turn South to bash either the US or another country for ALL of the DR's woes

It is one thing to be patriotic and stand up for your country, yet another to be bitter and blame everyone else for your own problems

Until such time NAL0WAL and those who think alike wake up and take responsibility, the DR will continue a system of Patronage, Nepotism and "Handouts" from the rest of the world

I am in no way saying all Dominicans think like him, but he "appears" to be one of the well educated young up and coming Dominicans, my only question is where is he is headed with that attitude

A>
 

miguel

I didn't last long...
Jul 2, 2003
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Oh boy!

Nal0whs said:
For the most part, some Dominicans look upon the Haitians as inferiors who live in grinding poverty because that's all they're capable of.

Today, many Dominicans feel that their country is being invaded by its neighbor, and they feel that if the poverty-striken Haitians aren't sent home, the DR will one day be as poor and trouble plagued as Haiti.

things came out of anger against what the Haitians have done to us! The DR NEVER IN ITS HISTORY had ever attempted to invade Haiti, yet the Haitians helped themselves at trying to make my people, my flag, my merengue, my mangu, my country beatiful women, and my culture extinct. Thanks to God they never destroyed the DR. And based on the historical fact that Haitians turn on you when they get the chance, I believe that they never lost hope of controlling the entire island. The only reason they haven't done it yet, is because we are stronger than they are. But, if they had the chance their armies would had been marching into Dominican territory with a determination of destroying everything and anything that is Dominican, much how they have tried to do it multiple times in the past!]

In the bible it says somewhere, that God would punish those who are greedy, unjust, and uncomformists with poverty, destruction, and misery.

Maybe that explains why Haiti went from being the richest colony on earth, to a country that is poor in every single aspect that makes up a country. Their ambitions to destroy us has driven themselves into the path of destruction!

Now, people bombard me with your criticisms.
I will not comment on the book because it's just a book and I am sure that somewhere in Haiti, someone wrote a similar book but in that book, the DR is the one being blamed for some or all of Haiti's problems.

Granted, some dominicans think that they are superior than Haitians as I an sure that many Haitians feel that they are superior to dominicans (specially the high class or elite class Haitians).

True, the country is being "invaded" by Haitians but I do believe that those Hatians are just looking for a better way-of life. That is reason enough for some dominicans to hate/dislike haitians but aren't dominicans on the same boat with most Puerto Ricans. The exact same thing that dominicans say about haitians (about stealing their jobs), Puerto Ricans say about those dominicans that go there to live, even if they are there ligally.

Nobody, and I mean, NOBODY will be allowed to come to my home and "help themselves with my people, my flag, my merengue, my mangu, my country beautiful women and my culture" unless I let them. It's human nature; people will only grab if allowed.

I really do not believe that God, the Almighty, had it in His agenda to punish ALL hatians for the sins of a few. Now, if you are saying that ALL haitians hate dominicans, I beg to differ since I do have many haitians friends that love the DR much more than I do. In fact, I even know of some dominicans that hate the DR much more than some haitians.

I will not criticize anything that you have said since it's just your opinion. You have your reasons to feel the way you feel and visa versa.

Let me ask you, if you are building a house in the DR and you know that a dominican worker will charge you 10 pesos an hour and the haitian will charge you 2 pesos (and show up to work every single day), which one would you hire?. See, just because they are cheaper to hire is a enough excuse for some dominicans to hate haitians, and I don't think that the dominican's reason would be because Haiti wants to grab the DR, it's just because they are "stealing" their jobs. Just like PR feel about domincans.

Please don't mind me asking but, what have ALL haitians done to you personally?. And please don't tell me that they are trying to take control of the DR, because NOT ALL of them do!. Just a question and not a critique.
 
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Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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A little too much copyrighted stuff there Naw0als

I know I got the name wrong.
No sense in stirring up stuff that has been debated ad nausium

Book seemed overly partialized to me, but that is me. Let's move on.

Moderator
 
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