I.m.f.

Kaizen68

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Does anyone know what's the status of the accord between DR and the infamous I.M.F.?
Are Dominicans on the island aware of the consequences this agreement will bring upon them..? do they care? have they seen what it has done on other latin american countries such as Ecuador? did anyone know that the US treasury department owns about 57 percent of the world bank? is dollarization of DR inminent? who cares you ask, I do, I experienced first-hand what it did to Ecuador.
 

PJT

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Say what ???????

Kaizen68 said:
Does anyone know what's the status of the accord between DR and the infamous I.M.F.?
Are Dominicans on the island aware of the consequences this agreement will bring upon them..? do they care? have they seen what it has done on other latin american countries such as Ecuador? did anyone know that the US treasury department owns about 57 percent of the world bank? is dollarization of DR inminent? who cares you ask, I do, I experienced first-hand what it did to Ecuador.

.....and let's just suppose your rhetoric about the "agreement" is true. <What do you suggest as a better alternative for the Dominicans to avoid the "consequences"?> What are the "consequences"? The Dominican government would welcome all solid rational opportunities to avoid "consequences".

Regards,
PJT
 

Kaizen68

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PJT said:
.....and let's just suppose your rhetoric about the "agreement" is true. <What do you suggest as a better alternative for the Dominicans to avoid the "consequences"?> What are the "consequences"? The Dominican government would welcome all solid rational opportunities to avoid "consequences".

Regards,
PJT
Boy oh boy...! I can always detect a gringo tourist whose main concern is "looking out for numero uno"in some poor unfortunate foreign land; they figured, "As long as I can get some....some..from a "me love you long time" little girl (or boy) why worry 'but their future...? Let me reiterate, have you seen what it has done to Ecuador? it's natural resources etc...etc. research for you open trap....
 

PJT

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No regards

Kaizen68 said:
Boy oh boy...! I can always detect a gringo tourist whose main concern is "looking out for numero uno"in some poor unfortunate foreign land; they figured, "As long as I can get some....some..from a "me love you long time" little girl (or boy) why worry 'but their future...? Let me reiterate, have you seen what it has done to Ecuador? it's natural resources etc...etc. research for you open trap....


Kaizen68,

You don't know me. You don't know who I am, You don't know my main concern. So why malign me by responding the way you have... "As long as I can get some"? In Dominican culture people have been shot for saying less.

Stick with issues and you will be well received in this forum. But, if you intend to bait and offer up misrepresentations about posters you will be avoided.

Moderator please take notice, you can see where this one is going.


After your comment, you do not have my regards.
PJT
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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Kaizen68 said:
Does anyone know what's the status of the accord between DR and the infamous I.M.F.?
Are Dominicans on the island aware of the consequences this agreement will bring upon them..? do they care? have they seen what it has done on other latin american countries such as Ecuador? did anyone know that the US treasury department owns about 57 percent of the world bank? is dollarization of DR inminent? who cares you ask, I do, I experienced first-hand what it did to Ecuador.

The general populance have no idea what happens with the IMF, except for what the papers and the politicians tell them. The elites are much more aware of the possible consequences.

The masses simply blame the problems on the government, even when the smoking gun has IMF finger prints all over it, like it did the last they were in the DR vicinity in the 1980s. Only after the IMF was kicked out of the DR by Balaguer, only then did the economy picked up in the 1990s.

Ecuador, Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, and many others are IMF victims.
 

Robert

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Kaizen68 said:
Boy oh boy...! I can always detect a gringo tourist whose main concern is "looking out for numero uno"in some poor unfortunate foreign land; they figured, "As long as I can get some....some..from a "me love you long time" little girl (or boy) why worry 'but their future...?

I suggest you engage brain before opening mouth next time.
I think you will find PJT is more Dominican that you ever imagined, combined with the fact that he lives here unlike someothers.

Get back on topic...
 

Kaizen68

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idled threats

PJT said:
Kaizen68,

You don't know me. You don't know who I am, You don't know my main concern. So why malign me by responding the way you have... "As long as I can get some"? In Dominican culture people have been shot for saying less.

Stick with issues and you will be well received in this forum. But, if you intend to bait and offer up misrepresentations about posters you will be avoided.

Moderator please take notice, you can see where this one is going.


After your comment, you do not have my regards.
PJT

... PJT

I do regret that you would to take this comment to the heart, however, understand this, it would be a perfect world if we all agreed in the same issues! your little comment regarding "being shot for saying less", that (and I'm sure moderator/s and all others will agree) is uncalled for, where I come from,that would be considered threatening bodily harm on another person.

...Regards to you and yours..
 
Oct 13, 2003
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IT's the only way to go

IMO

If no agreement with the IMF is reached other creditors (like the Paris club) will also withdraw support and you will see default on DR-debt, thusfar only avioded because creditors want to renegotiate their debt. If the faith outside investors have in the new govt collapses the 420Mio us in payments due on short term will not be met through restructuring debt. Also any agreements regarding fuel will fall through and anynew supply would only be forthcoming after payment of all outstanding bills...

Can you imagine what it would do to the DR if they were forced to pay off all outstanding debts?

Failure to reach agreement will lead to bankruptcy in the DR within the year..
 

Kaizen68

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MerengueDutchie said:
IMO

If no agreement with the IMF is reached other creditors (like the Paris club) will also withdraw support and you will see default on DR-debt, thusfar only avioded because creditors want to renegotiate their debt. If the faith outside investors have in the new govt collapses the 420Mio us in payments due on short term will not be met through restructuring debt. Also any agreements regarding fuel will fall through and anynew supply would only be forthcoming after payment of all outstanding bills...

Can you imagine what it would do to the DR if they were forced to pay off all outstanding debts?

Failure to reach agreement will lead to bankruptcy in the DR within the year..

well, perhaps that's exactly what they want in order to make swiftly the dollarization process...?
 

BushBaby

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To his credit, Leonel Fernandes DID say some time ago he was against the IMF loan & wold prefer to see the DR survive without it. He has subsequently seen the enormity of the countries debt, the need for rapid action to be taken in restructuring this debt AND restructuring many sections of the country to assure future debts are paid on time & in a "Gentlemanly" manner.

He now realises that this is not able to be achieved without the IMF loan & although he knows of the cost this will bring to the country (hence his desire to continue without the loan) he feels it is a 'force majoure' (Sp?).

Kaizen68 said:
well, perhaps that's exactly what they want in order to make swiftly the dollarization process...?

I would be interested to know whom you mean by "They". The DR Government? The IMF? The US Government? Who are you alluding to?

Why do you feel that the DR being dollarised would be in their interest? As long as the US Government, World Development Bank, IMF or whoever, get their U$D back, I don't think they are worried one JOT whether the DR is Dollarised or not!! Perhaps you would care to justify why "They" would want to 'swiftly introduce a Dollarised economy into the DR'? - Grahame
 

Texas Bill

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Kaizen68---

We've ALL been down this road before!!!
Go back and research (from day one of the initiation of the agreement) the developments of the implosion of the DR's economy to the present day.
I really don't think you will find that the IMF, nor any other lending agency for that matter, is at fault in causing the economic problems faced by the DR today.

Hipolito's buy back of the privatized Union F.... system.
The MANY additional 'loans' approved by the Senate.
The paybacks in the Banninter (?) fiasco.
The massive increase in the payroll of the government.
Etc., etc., etc.

Now, just to set your mind at ease, i don't think the IMF, nor the World Bank, have done such an outstanding job either. They SHOULD have left the DR to sink in it's own political and financial incompetence. They didn't, and that brings us up to date with the government really needing the mediocre loan that has been offered by that institution.

Like ANY lending agency, these organizations respond to a request by the affected governments, and like any lending agency, they also set certain guidelines for where and when that money is spent. Don't you think that is reasonable?

Or, do you think, like so many, that that money should be GIVEN AWAY to the requesting countries without recourse?

In the final analysis, it isn't whether or not the IMF/World Bank are doing a country any good, but whether or not that country really deserves to be loaned the money requested.

Texas Bill
 

liam1

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this may be a stupid question but i'll ask anyway; can a country declare bankruptcy and get out of debt?
 
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they can be declared bankrupt and write-off all debts

Argentian did it (suspended payments on foreign debt)

If this happens... what do you think the difficulties will be in the international arena for the DR..

1) Propane on credit?
2) Oil on credit?
3) Cars/equipment on credit?
4) Replacement parts for industry on credit?
5) Do you think anybody would accept pesos as payment anymore?


Nobody would lend the DR any money or finance any form of credit.. thus leading to the obligation to pay before any shipment is made.. This would enormously strain the cash-flow from the governement, especially since everybody would want a cash dollar payment for all product/services. As the DR is not a large, self-sufficient economy they cannot affor to cut themselves off from the world like this.

IMO the country would come to a complete stand-still within 3 months, because of this..

In a nut shell, it would be very, very bad for the DR.

Re dollarization of the DR.. see earlier posts on this subject (mine and others) by searching the archives.

Cheers,


MD
 
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liam1 said:
this may be a stupid question but i'll ask anyway; can a country declare bankruptcy and get out of debt?
This is actually an excellent question.

Most believe that the IMF's mission in propping up distressed central banks is a complete failure. I can go into the problem in greater detail if you like, but, in a nutshell, it's what the IMF itself calls "moral risk". The IMF has turned into an artificial guarantor of high interest loans from first world financial institutions to corrupt third world governments that have no intent of using the money for any worthwhile purpose (and everyone knows it). The money is stolen by the political classes, the IMF pays it back ensuring excellent profits for the lenders, but then the IMF forces the poor and middle class of the poor countries to pay it back through austerity. The enriched political classes then use their booty to buy reelection through patronage, etc., and the whole cycle repeats.

Many economists believe that a form of "sovereign bankruptcy" would make the whole system more regular and, possibly, end the corrupt conspiracy of big banks and investment houses, corrupt governments and the IMF. However, there is too much political power behind those special intersts benefiting from the current IMF scam (not including the citizens of the USA, Canada and the EC, who gain nothing from it), and not many understand the scam anyway, so there is little political oomph to get this done.

Interestingly, as a response to its critics on this very issue, the IMF itself proposed that it be allowed to set up a sovereign bankruptcy court. But it was considered an illegitimate effort by the IMF to retain the IMF's power and interests in a different form, and a US Senate committee struck the idea down.
 

Kaizen68

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Porfio_Rubirosa said:
This is actually an excellent question.

Most believe that the IMF's mission in propping up distressed central banks is a complete failure. I can go into the problem in greater detail if you like, but, in a nutshell, it's what the IMF itself calls "moral risk". The IMF has turned into an artificial guarantor of high interest loans from first world financial institutions to corrupt third world governments that have no intent of using the money for any worthwhile purpose (and everyone knows it). The money is stolen by the political classes, the IMF pays it back ensuring excellent profits for the lenders, but then the IMF forces the poor and middle class of the poor countries to pay it back through austerity. The enriched political classes then use their booty to buy reelection through patronage, etc., and the whole cycle repeats.

Many economists believe that a form of "sovereign bankruptcy" would make the whole system more regular and, possibly, end the corrupt conspiracy of big banks and investment houses, corrupt governments and the IMF. However, there is too much political power behind those special intersts benefiting from the current IMF scam (not including the citizens of the USA, Canada and the EC, who gain nothing from it), and not many understand the scam anyway, so there is little political oomph to get this done.

Interestingly, as a response to its critics on this very issue, the IMF itself proposed that it be allowed to set up a sovereign bankruptcy court. But it was considered an illegitimate effort by the IMF to retain the IMF's power and interests in a different form, and a US Senate committee struck the idea down.
You seem to be very well versed in the subject, can you tell us the pros and cons of DR signing with the International Monetary Fund?.How will it effect the lives of working class folks in the short and long term.

...Jay
 

Criss Colon

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Jay,read his posts,he IS telling you!

Lots of ways to put it!
"The Rich get richer,and the poor get poorer"!
"The rich man dances,and the poor man pays the band"!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC :(
 

Kaizen68

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matter of time

Criss Colon said:
Lots of ways to put it!
"The Rich get richer,and the poor get poorer"!
"The rich man dances,and the poor man pays the band"!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC :(
Ain't it the truth, brother...!
 
Apr 26, 2002
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Kaizen68 said:
...the pros and cons of DR signing with the International Monetary Fund?.How will it effect the lives of working class folks in the short and long term.
The Fernandez administration must do what it must do. It didn't create the international financial cabal, nor the current domestic fiscal mess. And the DR does not have the economic, military or political power to act independently or pave new ground. Any experiments in confronting the international financial system and the IMF would literally be suicide for the government of a poor country. The US, UK, Canada, France and Spain would "go medieval" on its asss.

Traditionally, IMF agreements have meant weaker economies, increased unemployment, an increased burden in taxes and fees on the working class, loss of benefits for the poor, and, ultimately, civil disturbances.

In the end, it can only be the wealthy nations or, perhaps, a militarily or econimically important poor country (Russia? Argentina? Venezuela?) that have the power to change the system. The best the DR can do will be to mature politically and learn to stay out of the hands of the vultures in the future. None of this seems likely in the medium term, does it?
 

NALs

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The IMF publicly recognized that its Globalization and market liberalization plans may actually cause harm to developing countries than good.

This of course came after Stiglitz (one of the most respected Economist in the field) who was also the chief financial advisor for the World Bank and the Clinton Administration, he severely criticized the IMF for being undemocratic, misleading, and troublesome for the proper development of the global economy.

Here is the link of the actual report where the IMF actually makes that recognition. Keep in mind that (in IMF style) it is an extremely lengthy report, so put it in your favorites or (if you got enough paper) print it and view it at your leasure, but it will be worth it... Hopefully I'll be able to forward this the Leonel himself...

http://www.imf.org/external/np/res/docs/2003/031703.pdf