Chaos still reigns!!!

Texas Bill

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Feb 11, 2003
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After a whole month into the NEW, Progressive administration of Lionel Fernandez, the government(????) is still in chaos.

No one is really getting anything done! They're still scrambling for positional superiority in all of the government offices, trying to establish the pecking order and hire the people to fill the vacancies.
When will the administrations of this country begin to realize that continuity of governmental functions and services is essential to productivity, infusion of needed capital for expansion, etc., etc. and establish a Civil Service which continues to function regardless of which political party is in power??? Don't they realize that they could collect their taxes quicker, expand their economy faster and create an inviting business environment should they do so instead of continuing to hold to the old nepotistic ways.

We can expect this chaos to continue for at least 6-8 months while the incoming workers learn their jobs to the point of reasonable efficiency(?).

I'm just pi**ed off at the gross inefficiency facing each of us every day and am fed up with the excuse of "that's the way we have always done things" answers that I get from so-called "educated" people in government.

Now that I've released my frustrations until tomorrow, I'll let someone else add to this.

NalOws--- what is your excuse this time. Can't you put your well known contacts to solving this problem? And how about you, Porfi?? Any comentary aboout this?? Others add in!

Texas Bill
 

Mirador

On Permanent Vacation!
Apr 15, 2004
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Don't get me wrong, I'm far from being a cynic, but I believe that everyone in this country would be a lot better off without a civil service, as a matter of fact, without any government at all...
 

Oche

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Oh come Bill you know better than that. In one month you cannot solve aleviate this plundered and ravaged nation, it'll take a lot more than just a few months to get ball rolling. Blame the PRD pillagers for every delay in the restablishment of an adequate normalcy in the proper function of the administrative engine. I just hope that the general and district attorneys start prosecuting all those thieves from the past government and get some heavy sentences on those just for morale and the people's dignity.
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
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Most haven't even had their business cards printed yet.

One thing is for sure, the business community is much more upbeat than 12 months ago and so are the public. This mindset alone can make good things happen.

You should ask the question again in 12 months.
 

BushBaby

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Jan 1, 2002
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Whilst I agree with the underlying comment that it is too soon for this Government/Administration to get things into 'fast forward', I think Bill's main complaint related to the need for a CONTINUOUS administration of Civil affairs - i.e. a regularised Civil Service! On this point I totally concur with him, it IS time the senior positions of the administration WERE permenent positions so that business continues throughout the elections, functions adequately during the hand-over period after elections & is in FULL function immediately the new Administration takes office!

Having to re-educate senior administrators of the Civil Service every 4 years is an absolute waste of time & totally dissorientates the community!! I fully understand the concept of "Jobs for the party faithful" which has been prevalent for the last **** years, but isn't it time to loose that & institute a FAIR distribution among ALL party workers (30% PRD, 30% PLD, 25% PRSC & 15% others)??? Okay, mix the percentages around a bit, but let us keep the principle of fair distribution until a "Job secure by merit" system can be fully implemented!!

Whilst on this subject - Who runs the Aduana in this country??? Anybody know??? Should they NOT come under the direct control of the ruling Administration? I hear that 5 'Bailey' suspension bridges have been donated by a British company for use here & have been sitting in Aduana for 5 (yes FIVE) years awaiting payment to Aduana of RD $33 million! Here is poor old Bavaro waiting for a bridge to re-establish land communication for the getting in of badly needed supplies whilst Aduana wait for their kick-back .......... DISGUSTING!!!! And totally irresponsible behaviour!!

Go for it Bill - let's get some formal, recognised system in place that does NOT get disrupted befor, during & immediately after the elections. About 5 or 6 months of useful work is lost as a result of the present system - to say nothing of the pilferages that take place as the outgoing workers steal what they can to line their pockets whilst out of work!! - Grahame.
 

Rosemary

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Apr 13, 2004
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Seems the chaos is far reaching ! Try faxing, phoning, or emailing the Embassy in Ottawa !! Phone is strictly voice mail and directs you to no where in French ! All web pages and personnel offices state " Under Construction " Hope they have ordered enough yellow hard hats !
 

BushBaby

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k1w1 said:
c'mon guys GIVE IT UP!! You're in the DOMINICAN (sorry rickdick) Learn to live with it. You're not going to change SQUAT. Change like you're envisioning WILL NOT HAPPEN in your lifetime as this will only occur 'within' And you are not 'within' believe me.
Suck on a presidente or some brugal and live your life in paradise.
cheers

K1w1,
You obviously do not know Texas & myself - we are not the lay back, enjoy the beers & let the world go by brigade! We like to involve ourselves (Bill more than myself) in what happens locally, discussing things with our Dominican friends & trying to put forward new concepts to them! I TOTALLY agree that this could take years to introduce & it MAY not come in my lifetime (although I hope I have another twenty or thirty years to reside here in paradise!!), but a start HAS to be made somewhere & by someone!! By discussing ideas here, we may get a germ of an idea we can all pass on to our Dominican firends who can then pass it on to THEIR friends!! ...... Today DR1, tomorrow all our Dominican friends, next week the DR Government ....... Next Year ... The WORLD!!!!

ANYTHING I can do to help Dominicans see "Outside the Box" I will do so. I do not want to impose MY views, MY doctrin, MY values on them, just give them the thought processes to determin their own plans for the future. Hell, if we can each help 2 additional Dominicans to THINK & PLAN for their Future, if we can help them into conceptual thinking rather than doing only what their Fathers have done over the past 50 years, we will have achieved great strides forward. Sorry, sitting back "sucking on a Presidente" (I rarely touch the stuff anyway these days) is not going to achieve anything for this country I love, nor the people I love in it! I would rather fight & lose than not to have fought in the first place!! ~ Grahame.
 

Texas Bill

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Feb 11, 2003
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Not for a minute----

k1w1 said:
Go for it Bill - let's get some formal, recognised system in place that does NOT get disrupted befor, during & immediately after the elections. About 5 or 6 months of useful work is lost as a result of the present system - to say nothing of the pilferages that take place as the outgoing workers steal what they can to line their pockets whilst out of work!! - Grahame.

c'mon guys GIVE IT UP!! You're in the DOMINICAN (sorry rickdick) Learn to live with it. You're not going to change SQUAT. Change like you're envisioning WILL NOT HAPPEN in your lifetime as this will only occur 'within' And you are not 'within' believe me.
Suck on a presidente or some brugal and live your life in paradise.
cheers[/QUOTE]

Will I be silent in the face of this ongoing, systematic stupidity in the 'running' of any government which I am living under!!
I may not be a citizen (and US laws prohibit my being so), but I am, by God, a resident subject to the vagaries of the ill enforced laws of this, my adopted country. i will do everything in my power to start the ball rolling through constant bitching, pointing out the shortcomings of this system and will offer solutions to the problem point by ever-loving point!
If you wish to remain complascent in the matter, that is your prerogative, but then you may not have anything to add anyway! And I say that, tounge-in-cheek, so don't take it literally nor personally.
We had this same problem in our US government until the late 1800's when Congress finally realized they were penalizing both the public and their trading partners, the business world, etc. That's when they passed the Civil Service Act and finally brought about a modicum of efficiency to government operations, rank and file.
Yes, it will take a very strong political movement to change the 500 years of government inefficiency, nepotism, and cronyism under which we operate. BUT, it CAN be done!!!
As an entre to this question, does anyone know what Lionel's email address is??? If you do, PM me with it and I'll get started on THIS project.
C'mon, let's get organized and innundate the Gov. with the demands, OR are you afraid to rock the boat???

Texas Bill
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Bushbaby and TBill:

I got to hand it to you two, more to TBill since I have a "history" of debates with TBill. The truth is that even after I stop debating with TBill, I end up thinking very much about his ideas because after all, they are quite good. I don't agree with everything he has to say, but I always agree on something he says.

So, my point is this. I'm a Dominican and I got somewhat of an influence in certain circles in this country. If TBill and to a lesser extent BushBaby have been able to make me at least think of their ideas to the problems the country face today, that in it self is an accomplishment because I spread the ideas (slightly modified with my interpretation) to my abundant Dominican family, friends, and colleages.

If they are doing that to me, then they sure are having some form of effect on the everyday Dominican joe they share their view of this world.
 

Texas Bill

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Nal0whs said:
Bushbaby and TBill:

I got to hand it to you two, more to TBill since I have a "history" of debates with TBill. The truth is that even after I stop debating with TBill, I end up thinking very much about his ideas because after all, they are quite good. I don't agree with everything he has to say, but I always agree on something he says.

So, my point is this. I'm a Dominican and I got somewhat of an influence in certain circles in this country. If TBill and to a lesser extent BushBaby have been able to make me at least think of their ideas to the problems the country face today, that in it self is an accomplishment because I spread the ideas (slightly modified with my interpretation) to my abundant Dominican family, friends, and colleages.

If they are doing that to me, then they sure are having some form of effect on the everyday Dominican joe they share their view of this world.

Thank you NalOws!!

I, too, know we have been at logers-head on a number of subjects, but we always seem to find a common ground upon which we can agree.
Will you and other's like you PLEASE join me in this effort to bring about a fundemental change in the way your government functions?
I don't profess to have all the answers, but it seems to me that is one element of government operation that is and will be essential to the future of this country.
I hesitate to imagine the amount of increase in trade, investment and international support such a change would foster. I truly think it would be phenominal.
I initiate an invitation to Porfi, Tordok, yourself and others to discuss the pros and cons of this matter.
I know it will not be easy, and probably not too fruitful in the short run. But i think it will be worth our efforts in the long run.
I'm afraid I'll have to leave it up to those of you who are familiar with the politicos to open conversations with them regarding this since I am not very fluent in your native tongue. I will offer whatever support I can in the area of suggestions for implementation, requirements for testing, assignment of ranking, etc., etc.

Fell free to email me at billyadams@texasbill.com or PM me.

I'll retire for now and await your pleasure.

Texas Bill
 

Riu

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Jun 11, 2004
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how will they get things done?

I have a question, maybe ignorant to the locals, an interesting one to me. I read that there are 31 senators from PRD, 1 from PLD and 1 from the other party, if all these senators are from PRD (and these guys are as crooked as they come), how is the new administration going to get anything done, if the PRD senators sabotage every try to get things rolling, just to make the new guy look bad? They had their chance, and failed. What in hell's winter is going on down there?
 

Riu

New member
Jun 11, 2004
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Texas Bill said:
After a whole month into the NEW, Progressive administration of Lionel Fernandez, the government(????) is still in chaos.

No one is really getting anything done! They're still scrambling for positional superiority in all of the government offices, trying to establish the pecking order and hire the people to fill the vacancies.
When will the administrations of this country begin to realize that continuity of governmental functions and services is essential to productivity, infusion of needed capital for expansion, etc., etc. and establish a Civil Service which continues to function regardless of which political party is in power??? Don't they realize that they could collect their taxes quicker, expand their economy faster and create an inviting business environment should they do so instead of continuing to hold to the old nepotistic ways.

We can expect this chaos to continue for at least 6-8 months while the incoming workers learn their jobs to the point of reasonable efficiency(?).

I'm just pi**ed off at the gross inefficiency facing each of us every day and am fed up with the excuse of "that's the way we have always done things" answers that I get from so-called "educated" people in government.

Now that I've released my frustrations until tomorrow, I'll let someone else add to this.

NalOws--- what is your excuse this time. Can't you put your well known contacts to solving this problem? And how about you, Porfi?? Any comentary aboout this?? Others add in!

Texas Bill


TexasBill, I am not down there as you, but I feel your pain
 
Apr 26, 2002
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Texas Bill said:
I initiate an invitation to Porfi, Tordok, yourself and others to discuss the pros and cons of this matter.
I don't know, Bill. A professional civil service would be nice, but I just can't rank it in the top ten of priorities. Also, anything that had the possibility of increasing the already absurd Bourbon bureacracy scares me. Finally, as has been said before many times in many ways, the DR is often best off when government DOESN'T function.

Perhaps an experiment is in order. For example, maybe the Postal Institute or some other governmental agency that acts more like an enterprise could be reformed as a semi-autonomous governmental authority with a professional civil service. The exam would have to be issued and monitored by a professional (probably foreign) testing organization.

BTW, I visited your website and liked it. I feel like I know you much better after visiting it. Glad to see you enjoying life in the DR.
 

bienvenido

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Thanks To All For Your Opinions On This Subj

I just happen to read this thread, and I want to thank you all for your comments. It shows that most foreign national are well informed of the country situation. If it would be in my hand to make some of you mayor of your community, I would. This is why I like to encourage all foreign residents continuous to speak up in behalf of your community. I understand that some of your aren?t allowed to have dual citizenship, but don?t let that stop you from making your voice heard. As a matter of fact, there should be a legislation that allow certain foreing nationals occupy key goverment position within his/her community. Furthermore, your ideas about how the DR GOV should operate is very helpful. I wish you all post your opinion regarding the new Dominican judicial system, which go into effect this month. It is enough just to walk around Cabarette and many of the POP tourist areas to see how foreing national are contributing to the develoment of this nation. I think is nice to walk around this areas because is nice, well kept and clean; there is your contribution to our nation. Believe many Dominican act like they act because they never set a foot outside this country, and by keeping this area nice you are setting an example for us to follow. Thanks.
 

cr8tions

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May 20, 2004
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You guys might think i'm crazy but, the only way things could change in this country is if someone from the outside comes in to the country with like 10 "hit men" takes out all these no good for nothing, selfish, crooked politicians. No one can know who these hit men are as to let the politicians know that they are being watched. It would scare the **** outta them and hopefully once a few of them get wacked. The rest of the crooked politians hopefully would get the message and maybe do their job or quit. Now, the successor of the politician who got "wached" or quit his job because of fear would have to take the position with the thought of helping the country. If he startes to go about filling his pockets then his name goes on the list and is forced to quit or get wacked...

Eventually, this would filter out all the curroption in government. The question is who will organize such a group of hitmen? It must be done by someone with close ties to the government that knows of all the scams and corrupt practices. This would enable the group to plan its activities.

Look at Peru for example when Fujimori cleaned house same thing with Chile with Pinochet and may I add, Chile has the strongest economy in latin america.

If something like this does not happen I can guarantee you that this country will continue to go about doing things as they have for next 500 years.. I am willing to make bets... sure they might improve for a little bit but then they go back to worse... kinda like a rolloer coaster ride.

Sounds like Rambo needs to go on a mission! :rambo:
 
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Texas Bill

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Bienvinido (pardon my spelling, please)

It is indeed heartening to hear words of praise from a Dominican about the contributions made by the Expat community. Be those Expats from Great Britain, France, Germany, Spain, the USA, or where ever.

We all, as Expats, have a responsibility to contribute by whatever means we can to the nation we reside in. To do less would be to abrogate our role as human beings in society, any society.

Perhaps the most vociferous of the Expats come from the USA. It must be realized that we are a little more prone toward judging a society's progress/status in the light of our own. This criticism comes about more by habit than any other reason. We're very accustomed to criticising our own government for not being as we would wish it and freely offer advise as to how it could better serve it's constituency. And we tend to keep hammering at that until the changes/progress are/is made. It is our habit to do these things without regard to the toes we step on in the process. For that reason alone, we are often regarded (by those who don't understand this propencity) as arrogant, self-serving, intolerent and generally a bunch of low-grade morons who don't know what they are talking about. Many of us fit into that category, but a majority of Americans are really nice people, once you get past the rough edges. If they feel like you realy need it, they'll give you he shirt off their back, but if you whine to us we'll tell you to quit it and stand up like a man.

For my part, I see a lot of fault in the way government is conducted; see a lot of solutions that would make it more responsive; see many ways in which the daily struggles could be aleviated; see a lot of ways to improve the general welfare of the citizens. These are the things that I have forcfully spoken out about in the past and will continue to speak out about in the future. I cn see no excuse for any government to so totally disregard the problems of the past and continue to repeat those same problems in the future. To me that is unforgivable, plain and simple.

I realize it's hard to think about draining the swamp when you're up to your a** in alligators, but that's what has to be done and i also think it's time and enough for the popullation to start demanding honesty, integrity and rule of law from their government, regardless of which political party is running things.

One of the main problems, as I see it, is that there are too many chiefs and not enough indians running things. And that's just a start. I don't have room to start boring you with everything on my mind, but I'm sure you get the idea.

I'll ask for your support in the effort of correcting the things I'm sure you are aware of. if enough people get behind such a movement, then progress can be made in our lifetime.

Nuff said for now. I'll get off the soapbox and ask everyone to think about these things.

Texas Bill
 

BushBaby

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This looks as though it could get exciting. Porfio, Nal0wls (& hopefully a few Dominican lurkers not presently posting) prepared to engage our fantacies for consideration at higher level. I would like to suggest that if anyone has a "CONSTRUCTIVE" thought on ways to improve governmental efficiency, they post it here whilst the iron is HOT!!

We - the Ex-Pat community - get our information on news Dominican from translations made by DR1 in their daily news bulletin, possibly other english language boards & (for those capable of understanding the written Spanish or fast spoken Spanish) El Caribe web page &/or CDN television or web page!! Would it not be possible to get someone to translate the Government/Debates forums of DR1 (plus any other boards giving serious debate on matters Dominican) & make a transcript available for ALL members of Senate & Congress to read once a week? Perhaps the powers that be can make it Mandatory reading for Senators & Congress with a test to see that they HAVE read it before they are allowed in to sit in session for the week??

Could the regional organisers for each voted in Congress person & Senator, devise a monthly bulletin that issues the actions in Congress/Senate for their region & pass that on to the electorate? Maybe a 'tick box' response
/survey could be added to be returned to the Congressperson/Senator indicating the way his/her 'electorate' would wish him/her to vote? Okay, okay!! ..... I KNOW it is wishful thinking, unlikely to be put into action & even if it is .... who the heck is going to take a blind bit of notice of what the electorate says it wants BUT ....... if it gets the electorate thinking politics, maybe some form of political understanding will come to the masses & get them analysing the performance of their elected representatives!!

Porfio.
I would be MOST interested in hearing what 10 (or more) priorities come above a regularised Civil Service. Anti-Corruption, education, financial stability & growth are I agree very important, but which comes first - chicken or egg??? Without a professional system in position (one that is RESPONSIBLE & has to be accountable) many of the aforementioned are likely to be swept under the counter & forgotten for political benefit of the encumbant party. The 'Golden eggs' of a proper education system, a non-political judiciary, a professional Customs & Excise office, Anti-Corruption policies & the much needed Financial growt are unlikely to be hatched if there is not a responsible hen sitting over them to keep them warm & well protected for hatching!!

Just a thought - are we looking at things from the wrong end because of our need to see immediate results??

I look forward to seeing your 'Top 10' list Porfio as I am sure many would like to either ADD to it or put it in the order of necessity as WE see it. ~ Grahame.
Unedited for spelling & grammatical errors as it is late at night & my eyes are drooping!!
 

Lambada

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I think this sort of thing has to be approached with a mixture of humility & enthusiasm. The "I come from a developed nation" syndrome has to be avoided at all costs..........after all, we chose to leave our 'developed nations', looking for a better life in the Dominican Republic. Bienvenido has commented on the contribution made by ex-pats in relation to keeping things clean.........there is a lot more we could do, but we have to approach the problems looking through Dominican spectacles, not British or American ones.

What do Dominican Board members feel about gringo involvement in organisations like Participacion Ciudana, for example? Would such involvement be welcome or not? Would it need to be limited numbers to avoid swamping? Are other organisations more appropriate?
 

Texas Bill

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I must, in all honesty----

Agree with all of you.

Although it pains me to do so, since I've been a Republican all my adult life, I feel impelled to quote a Democratic president. namely, John F. kennedy, wherein he stated "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your Country!"

I embrace that philosophy in it's entirety. So, what do we do, on a local level (within country) to contribute to that philosophy, bearing in mind that politicians really don't wish to interrupt the status quo by the endorsement and introduction of new ideas and ways of doing things? They have a natural resistance to change that must be overcome through the efforts of their constituency to effect that change through peaceful means whenever possible. In a truly democratic society and with an informed population, these changes are signified by the election of representatives who think and act-out the will of the population.

By supporting "political action committees" dedicated to bringing about the changes necessary/desired, the population can send a very strong message to the elected representatives. That and personal contact, pursuing a firm agenda over an extended period of time, can be effective. Frequent publication of the desired changes in periodical sis essential to the success of such a presentation both to the public and to the representatives. Each change desired must be pursued until accomplished. A "shotgun" effort with many prresentations would only detract from the long range agenda. So, items must be presented one at a time.

We're not looking at gaining any immediate results, except maybe on minor issues.

That leaves us with an immediate problem of identifying the changes desired, establishing a plan of action and proceeding with the plan.

Identify and outline your ideas, establishing a priority list and method of presentation.

C'mon Porfi, Tordok, NalOws and others in the Dominican intelligentia. Let's see some of your thoughts regarding these endemic 'problems'.

The solutions are attainable if only we put forth the effort to address and effect them.

Texas Bill
 

Criss Colon

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The Dominican Republic needs Statesmen,what they have are

"Politicians"!!!!

The article yesterday in the DR1 news points this out to a "T"!!

Remember General "Pepe" Goico?Chief of advance security for "Hipolito".THe guy that ran up a 50 million dollar credit card debt at Baninter.Remember him? Drug runner!
He just left the DR for Paris! Nice work if you can get it!That is the "punishment" metered out to Dominican politicians for theft :bandit: ,fraud :bandit: ,assassinations :bandit: ,rape :bandit: ,robbery :bandit: ,and assault! :bandit:
There should be a sign at all Dominican airports: "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here",unless you came to get "LAID" on the cheap!"
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