Sources, especially for CC and Quisqueya!

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Notice, 35% of a population of 8 million equals 2.8 million middle class Dominicans.
http://countrystudies.us/dominican-republic/72.htm

This report conducted by the US Embassy right here in wonderful Santo Domingo points to the DR middle class numbering at 3.8 million! This is a 2004 report on Adobe Acrobat PDF.
http://www.fas.usda.gov/gainfiles/200404/146106078.pdf

http://countrystudies.us/dominican-republic/27.htm

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Caribbean/Dominican_Repub.html

This thread shows the trend of American Middle Class...
http://www.newwork.com/Pages/Opinion/Raynor/Middle Class.html


CC and Quisqueya and others, enjoy!
 

deelt

Bronze
Mar 23, 2004
987
2
0
The 2004 report you cite, written by the US Embassy, states that only 20% of the population, 1.8 million people. The report cites 57% of the population is lower class or falling below the poverty line (10%). As such, given that you have 60% of the population living in poverty that explains the many increased usage of the yolas, recently.

The upper middle class might as well be in the category of the upper class given their buying power in DR. This is also alluded to in the report thus cannot count toward those in the middle class.

Nal0whs said:
Notice, 35% of a population of 8 million equals 2.8 million middle class Dominicans.
http://countrystudies.us/dominican-republic/72.htm

This report conducted by the US Embassy right here in wonderful Santo Domingo points to the DR middle class numbering at 3.8 million! This is a 2004 report on Adobe Acrobat PDF.
http://www.fas.usda.gov/gainfiles/200404/146106078.pdf

http://countrystudies.us/dominican-republic/27.htm

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Caribbean/Dominican_Repub.html

This thread shows the trend of American Middle Class...
http://www.newwork.com/Pages/Opinion/Raynor/Middle Class.html


CC and Quisqueya and others, enjoy!
 

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
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The "Country Report" by the US Embassy Staff

is a very interesting, detailed study involving many factors that are still in a fluid status. While it is interesting and covers a lot of detailed information, it is not, in and of itself, a conclusive expose of all the factors impacting the DR society and economic mileau.

I would suggest a 'tongue-in-cheek' approach to this study since it is obvioulsy alluding to two facts that are not yet set in concrete; those of the IMF agreement and the docking of the DR to the CAFTA. Additionally, one or two of the 'statements' regarding Customs charges/impositions' are not exactly realistic and fully descriptive of what actually takes place from that part of the government. They're still using theirown 'books' regardless of what the invoice shows.

In other words, the report is skewed in the direction of painting a prettier picture than actually exists in the DR.

As to the other citations, well, one is from 2001 (right after Hippo took over and before the brown stuff hit the revolving blades) and a couple of the others were from the same time-frame. In my book, that means they are out of date, not applicable currently and should not have been presented except as background material to chew on reference the present.

All in all, however, good try NalOws! At least you're getting the idea that we'll take your word if you back it up properly and not go off on a nationalistic word binge to support your 'theories'.````

Texas Bill
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,369
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Texas Bill said:
is a very interesting, detailed study involving many factors that are still in a fluid status. While it is interesting and covers a lot of detailed information, it is not, in and of itself, a conclusive expose of all the factors impacting the DR society and economic mileau.

I would suggest a 'tongue-in-cheek' approach to this study since it is obvioulsy alluding to two facts that are not yet set in concrete; those of the IMF agreement and the docking of the DR to the CAFTA. Additionally, one or two of the 'statements' regarding Customs charges/impositions' are not exactly realistic and fully descriptive of what actually takes place from that part of the government. They're still using theirown 'books' regardless of what the invoice shows.

In other words, the report is skewed in the direction of painting a prettier picture than actually exists in the DR.

As to the other citations, well, one is from 2001 (right after Hippo took over and before the brown stuff hit the revolving blades) and a couple of the others were from the same time-frame. In my book, that means they are out of date, not applicable currently and should not have been presented except as background material to chew on reference the present.

All in all, however, good try NalOws! At least you're getting the idea that we'll take your word if you back it up properly and not go off on a nationalistic word binge to support your 'theories'.````

Texas Bill
Well TB, I know that is how people accept the word of another person. However, most of my sources where I derive much of my information is not available on the internet or to the general public, as such I decline to show them.

However, from time to time I do my best to show sources that the general person do have access to and this is one of those times.

BTW, I did recognized the points you pointed and I thought very well before posting, but I figure this is better than nothing.

Happy Holidays!
 

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
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And "Happy Holidays" to you, too!!!

You might try using the age old "Highly placed source" routine. That is usually accepted from the "Media" reporters. Why should your's be any different???HMMMM.

Keep up the good work!!
 

Criss Colon

Platinum
Jan 2, 2002
21,843
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There Are Three Types Of Statistics: "LIES,LIES,and "DAMN LIES"!!!

"NGOs" are "Damn Liers! The US Empassy Reports are "Self-serving"! All are done by people who have to "Make Work", to keep being employed,and tend to "accentuate the positive"!
In short the DR is a Third World Backwater African Country in the Carribean!
They Government says that they are now generating 88% of the power needs of the Country! Then why is it that the power goes off every few hours on Christmas Eve,Christmas,"Morn" and throughout Christmas Day???It must be all the Government offices,Commercial/retail/business',and factories that are all working so hard,and using so much energy!Do they think that if they keep telling us that "Things Are Better" that we will actually think that they are??? I have been hearing that, "Things are,or are soon to be,getting better!" for 10 YEARS!!!
Nitowls,You are a very nice,Semi-educated,Dominican person,but you let your "National Pride" get in the way of "REALITY"! This is a very nice, Tiny,insignificant Country in the middle of the Carribean sea,NOTHING MORE!
Just like in "Vegas Baby"!
"What Happens here,Stays here!"
"Well",the DR IS Internationally known for it's "Prostitutes!!,and in the USA for it's Ball players! :nervous:
 

AZB

Platinum
Jan 2, 2002
12,290
519
113
Criss Colon said:
""Well",the DR IS Internationally known for it's "Prostitutes!!,and in the USA for it's Ball players! :nervous:
You guys have to update your data from 1980's. Its not the dominicans who are known for prostitution in all over the world, its the russians. No one knows of domincians any more, everyone talks about "russian" hookers worldwide. I am in the middle of a world tour and believe me, no one knows of domincians anymore anywhere, the russians have taken over.
AZB
 

Texasfool

*** Sock Puppet ***
Nov 9, 2004
47
0
0
Nal0whs said:
Notice, 35% of a population of 8 million equals 2.8 million middle class Dominicans.
http://countrystudies.us/dominican-republic/72.htm

This report conducted by the US Embassy right here in wonderful Santo Domingo points to the DR middle class numbering at 3.8 million! This is a 2004 report on Adobe Acrobat PDF.
http://www.fas.usda.gov/gainfiles/200404/146106078.pdf

http://countrystudies.us/dominican-republic/27.htm

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Caribbean/Dominican_Repub.html

This thread shows the trend of American Middle Class...
http://www.newwork.com/Pages/Opinion/Raynor/Middle Class.html


CC and Quisqueya and others, enjoy!

A lot has changed since your "information" was compiled over 4 years ago, something called "Hippo"
 

Texasfool

*** Sock Puppet ***
Nov 9, 2004
47
0
0
AZB said:
You guys have to update your data from 1980's. Its not the dominicans who are known for prostitution in all over the world, its the russians. No one knows of domincians any more, everyone talks about "russian" hookers worldwide. I am in the middle of a world tour and believe me, no one knows of domincians anymore anywhere, the russians have taken over.
AZB

Just last year, Iwas approcahed in Bratislava (Slovakia), Prague and Budapect by Dominican Working girls. they are all over europe
 

AZB

Platinum
Jan 2, 2002
12,290
519
113
Texasfool said:
Just last year, Iwas approcahed in Bratislava (Slovakia), Prague and Budapect by Dominican Working girls. they are all over europe
If you really look hard, you might even find pakistani working girls in dominican republic as well (if you really look hard). Dominican hookers are not so popular all over the world as you all might expect, no one even knows of dominican republic in most of the countries let alone know of a hooker. Its the folks who look for hookers everywhere they go will find one of any nationality. By comparison to other hookers, you will find tons of russian hookers anywhere in the world. You don't even have to find one, someone will tell you of a russian joint anywhere in almost any country. Russian hookers have even penetrated in to santo domingo and even as far away places like africa, middle east and even in pakistan. They exist in punta cana and in SD. Watch out folks, the russian are talking over just like the chinese have declared an industrial war on the rest of the world.
AZB
 

wventura

New member
Oct 21, 2003
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Criss Colon said:
"NGOs" are "Damn Liers! The US Empassy Reports are "Self-serving"! All are done by people who have to "Make Work", to keep being employed,and tend to "accentuate the positive"!
In short the DR is a Third World Backwater African Country in the Carribean!
They Government says that they are now generating 88% of the power needs of the Country! Then why is it that the power goes off every few hours on Christmas Eve,Christmas,"Morn" and throughout Christmas Day???It must be all the Government offices,Commercial/retail/business',and factories that are all working so hard,and using so much energy!Do they think that if they keep telling us that "Things Are Better" that we will actually think that they are??? I have been hearing that, "Things are,or are soon to be,getting better!" for 10 YEARS!!!
Nitowls,You are a very nice,Semi-educated,Dominican person,but you let your "National Pride" get in the way of "REALITY"! This is a very nice, Tiny,insignificant Country in the middle of the Carribean sea,NOTHING MORE!
Just like in "Vegas Baby"!
"What Happens here,Stays here!"
"Well",the DR IS Internationally known for it's "Prostitutes!!,and in the USA for it's Ball players! :nervous:


You use way too many quotation marks, but I would have to agree with what you said.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,369
3,150
113
wventura said:
You use way too many quotation marks, but I would have to agree with what you said.
He does use too many quotations, but that's cc.

Anyhow, I won't tell you what to believe.

But, generally, whenever something positive is posted about the DR, it's often referred to as a lie.

However, whenever something negative is posted about the DR, it's often referred to as the almighty truth.

Now I wonder, is it me or are people more inclined to accept negative info without justification rather than positive info with justification?

You say, the DR is doomed, and everybody praises you.

You say, the DR has an economy that its growing again and everybody asked one of the following:

Where did you got that info from?

Show the sources

That is a lie

etc etc etc

However, you say the US is great and everybody praises you.

You say, the US is the number one drug consumer in the World and much of the Drug trade is due to that heavy demand eminating from that country and everybody says one of the following:

Yeah, but xyz...

Show me the sources

Where did you came up with that

That is a lie

Or they point to fault to those blacks and Hispanics in the inner cities or to the cocaine drug lords in Colombia.

Or they simply call you an "anti-American".

My question is this:

Why does this pattern exist?

Why is it that positive news of the US are taken as almighty truth, but positive news of the DR needs justification?

Why does negative news from the DR is taken as the almighty truth with no further explanation needed and negative news from US needs further justification?

Even when two different reports (one on US economy and the other on DR economy) is done by a prominent American company (ie. Ernst and Young).

For some reason, people accept their evaluation of the US economy more easily than their evaluation of the DR economy if both evaluations were positive.

But the both evaluations were negative, most people disregard the US one but fully accept the DR one.

Even though both reports were conducted by the same highly respected company!

It just seems that people are a bit pessimistic about anything Dominican.

Or it could just be ignorance.

After all, the only people who keep saying that anything positive about the DR is a lie are Americans.

Read any book written about the DR and the one's who make the biggest fuss about the race issue, the economic issue, the cultural issue, etc are those books written by some American authors or by Dominican authors who have lived in the US.

I'm not trying to bash the US or their authors or anything, but I'm trying to figure out why is this the case?

And why do people put so much validity to the US when it comes to the racial issue?

South Africa (of all places) got their inspiration for their apartheid system from Good old USA. Many of their sergrationist laws were based on the American Jim Crow laws. This is something that has been revealed by many sociologist and historians who have focused their attention on South Africa's Apartheid and why it occured.

The US is even recognized as the only country in the world to use the one drop rule attitude towards race. No other country in the world does such thing.

Even with all of that, people still put more weight to the US way of looking at race. Actually, only the people who have lived in the US put so much attention to such wrong and racist way of looking at race.

I just don't understand why this is the case and I would like for someone to intelligently in a civilized manner would answer my ultimate question that lies behind this post of mine!

Why is this the case?
 
Last edited:

AZB

Platinum
Jan 2, 2002
12,290
519
113
Nal0whs said:
But, generally, whenever something positive is posted about the DR, it's often referred to as a lie.

However, whenever something negative is posted about the DR, it's often referred to as the almighty truth.

Now I wonder, is it me or are people more inclined to accept negative info without justification rather than positive info with justification?
I will add one more thing:
if anything is posted by an educated dominican which contradicts the typical american way of thinking, its considered trash, nonsense, semi educated guess or simply a wish full thinking.....etc etc. remember when golo came into the dr1 scene as tourists watcher? All of our resident DR gringos ganged up on him and tried to discredit his info, but what they didn't know was that they were going against a guy who can take all of them at the same time and make a fool out of them with half wits. Then came many others ex: diablo rojo (?) and he simply got banned. Now Nal0whs is paying his dues. Americans just can't accept anyone who is not an american to be giving them an educational lesson on DR or on anything which deals with this island. To them, dominicans are simply some folks who are only worth having as house maids or watchmen at night. These arrogant foreigners will accept anything said by any one of the sosua UBH chasing drunks but will ask for source of info from anything posted by any educated dominican.
 

Narcosis

New member
Dec 18, 2003
387
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Criss Colon said:
"NGOs" are "Damn Liers! The US Empassy Reports are "Self-serving"! All are done by people who have to "Make Work", to keep being employed,and tend to "accentuate the positive"!
In short the DR is a Third World Backwater African Country in the Carribean!
They Government says that they are now generating 88% of the power needs of the Country! Then why is it that the power goes off every few hours on Christmas Eve,Christmas,"Morn" and throughout Christmas Day???It must be all the Government offices,Commercial/retail/business',and factories that are all working so hard,and using so much energy!Do they think that if they keep telling us that "Things Are Better" that we will actually think that they are??? I have been hearing that, "Things are,or are soon to be,getting better!" for 10 YEARS!!!
Nitowls,You are a very nice,Semi-educated,Dominican person,but you let your "National Pride" get in the way of "REALITY"! This is a very nice, Tiny,insignificant Country in the middle of the Carribean sea,NOTHING MORE!
Just like in "Vegas Baby"!
"What Happens here,Stays here!"
"Well",the DR IS Internationally known for it's "Prostitutes!!,and in the USA for it's Ball players! :nervous:

Criss, your posts are like the Jerry Springer show, strangely entertaining but full of "blue collar" ignorance and self-loathing cries for attention.

Since the subject is accuracy of information and sources, I will reply to your post and dare you to contradict the veracity of the following:

The Dominican Republic may be "tiny", only 44,000 square kilometers, but is far from insignificant in the grand scheme of history.

Consider that the American continent was born here; first city, first university, first hospital etc. This was the birthplace of a new empire as well, the Spanish empire gave birth on this island and was the front door to the discovery of new civilizations unknown to man.

This insignificant backwater country was the launching pad for the discovery of what is today known as the United States, that would in the future become the next great empire.

So you see Criss even in your small world limited by your own ignorance this country is still significant, if you consider our baseball players are the best and in your words the prostitutes are as well, you should know right?
 

Naufrago

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Sep 1, 2004
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Thanks for info NalOwhs, i'm always looking for interesting info about my newly adopted homeland, in english. CC, I've got to agree with your take on stats, as a former NYC analyst, whose job it was to create statistics, I know you can make them look anyway you want to, too many variables and decisions have to be made in the collection, analysis, and reporting methods. And politics from the top will always determine your outcome. Nobody in power wants to be contradicted by a pee-on analyst.

I much rather go by what I can see and the impressions of well travelled observers than statistics. As I settle in to this life in Santo Domingo, I see a huge and growing middle class, as opposed to a shrinking one back in the US, I feel this bodes well for this country. It is a small developing country, but it's our country and we're all here for some reason. To me, life here doesn't feel all that different from my life back in NY. Back there the rich are really squeezing the middle class into poverty, my experience. The rich are more than ever, and that's great if your fortunate enough to be one of them, but the ranks of the poor are growing too. The significance of this country will not be felt because of it's huge economy, or its overwhelming numbers. But who knows what great individuals or ideas, or cultural concepts could come out of this little island.
 
Oct 13, 2003
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Narcosis said:
Criss, your posts are like the Jerry Springer show, strangely entertaining but full of "blue collar" ignorance and self-loathing cries for attention.

Since the subject is accuracy of information and sources, I will reply to your post and dare you to contradict the veracity of the following:

The Dominican Republic may be "tiny", only 44,000 square kilometers, but is far from insignificant in the grand scheme of history.

Consider that the American continent was born here; first city, first university, first hospital etc. This was the birthplace of a new empire as well, the Spanish empire gave birth on this island and was the front door to the discovery of new civilizations unknown to man.

This insignificant backwater country was the launching pad for the discovery of what is today known as the United States, that would in the future become the next great empire.

So you see Criss even in your small world limited by your own ignorance this country is still significant, if you consider our baseball players are the best and in your words the prostitutes are as well, you should know right?

I am neither Criss nor an American and am a bit amused by this debate, although anyone who reads a few pages from i.e. Jose Marti or Simon Bolivar understands the debate. Just a few tiny little corrections..

1) Colombus first landed on Guanahani (Bahamas) not on the DR. Most probably he was not the first European to discover America. It is likely that the Vikings had done so some 3 centuries earlier. Some settlements have been found on New Foundland. He was definitely not the first human on the island.. those were the Indians, so in perspective he did only discover it for the Europeans (if that).

2) Finding Guanahani to be of little interest, Colombus actually landed on Hispanola, in what is now Haiti and also built his first settlement there. With planking saved from the Santa Maria when it hit a coral reef on X-mas eve 23 December 1492, he built a fort, near Cap-Haitian.

3) The country of the DR measures 48,734 sq miles, about 10% more than mentioned in your post.

4) As far a giving birth to the Spanish empire imo that had already happened in Spain during the reconquista. I seriously doubt that the Spanish empire in SA had existed without the century long struggles against the Moores to liberate their home-country, which produced a warrior-class that was, at the time in history, unrivaled in the world. The reconquista had ended, they needed to provide a new focus and objective for this class before things got out of hand..

5) As far as the American continent was born (apart from the geological argument that it was born quite a few years before that) there are some arguments to make here too. There are two American continents NA and SA, with good reason. The NA continent was born if you like to use that term from the development from the English, Dutch and French colonies in the North, whereas the SA continent was born from the development of the Spanish capitanias, one of which was Santo Domingo, which included Cuba (el jabe del Caribe), where the eventual capital of this part of the empire was established in Havana, to effectively rule the Spanish Carribean area (including Florida).

6) The Dominican Republic itself did not gain indepence until 3 March 1865, when the Spaniards withdrew from the island.

7) However, while perhaps not on such a grand scale as depicted in your post, the Dominican people have produced some notable leaders and people. For me the most notable would be General Gomez Baez, who was the chief liberator of Cuba and is revered evermore on that island as their great liberator, you should see the statue he has on their most prominent boulevard in Havana. Also worth mention was the last Taino chief Hatuey, the first resister to foreign rule, who took refuge on Cuba.

8) The Dominican Republic has also produced a lot of value I still enjoy today, such as ron, puros and most of all the music. In my mind those are the things that make the Dominican Republic a proud country and will let the Dominicans claim their rightful place as a proud people amongst other nations.

Cheers,

MD
 

deelt

Bronze
Mar 23, 2004
987
2
0
Man, can I feel the testosterone just flowing through these postings!
Just felt the need to inject some estrogen: You can't be serious that in the scope of the value of the Dominican Republic can be reduced to rum, cigars and music?

Cheers,
D

MerengueDutchie said:
8) The Dominican Republic has also produced a lot of value I still enjoy today, such as ron, puros and most of all the music. In my mind those are the things that make the Dominican Republic a proud country and will let the Dominicans claim their rightful place as a proud people amongst other nations.

Cheers,

MD
 
Oct 13, 2003
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Deelt you'r right

I should elaborate.. I am a dedicated dancer and music lover; these three items mentioned for me stand for the culture/lifestyle of the DR, which imo is the real value of the place.. so was actually referring to that more elusive quality.. musica is very important for me.. a big part of my life revolves around it.. and large parts of my life flow from it, so for me these things are very important and I didn't see it as a reduction.. but others with you prob did, so thanks for pointing this out to me ;)

Cheers,

MD
 

Texas Bill

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Feb 11, 2003
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Hey, old buddy-------

I don't think it necessary for you to apologize for your statement----

Your "correction" of Narcosis's posting is self explanatory and a lot more accurate than his was originally. Isn't it strange about the "selective memory" about History that permiates this society? They're almost as bad as those of us from 'el norte'!

That most of the 'conquistidores' used Havana as both a base of operations, re-supply, etc. has been significantly downplayed in the writing and memory of most Dominicans. The present day DR played a minor role in the overall scheme of the conquest and populating of Central and South America and was left to die on the vine once it was discovered that there was more Gold, Silver and other more valuable products to be had from the other territories which came under their sword and influence.

That Columbus actually built a fort in what is today Haiti has never been widely discussed in the history books. Instead, historians and others have concentrated on the establishment of the first "Permanent" settlement aspect by Columbus at La Isabella on the north coast of the DR. Then due to the anhialation of the settlers (through their own instigation) by the natives, that settlement was abandoned and moved elsewhere.

Later, to add insult to injury, Trujillo caused the destruction of that significant archaeological site by destroying it to build something for himself.
Not an event to be proud of, but that act seems to be what this nation has done since it's inception 500 years ago. Build up, then destroy that which is beneficial to all. Look at what each successive political empire has accomplished.

Yet, they are successful, despite themselves!!

What greatness could they achieve should they ever decide to embrace some other motivation than absolute selfishness in their dealings???

Will they forever be stuck in their feudalistic society and attitudes toward humanity and their own kind?

That is something for posterity to evaluate.

Texas Bill
 

Narcosis

New member
Dec 18, 2003
387
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MerengueDutchie said:
I am neither Criss nor an American and am a bit amused by this debate, although anyone who reads a few pages from i.e. Jose Marti or Simon Bolivar understands the debate. Just a few tiny little corrections..

1) Colombus first landed on Guanahani (Bahamas) not on the DR. Most probably he was not the first European to discover America. It is likely that the Vikings had done so some 3 centuries earlier. Some settlements have been found on New Foundland. He was definitely not the first human on the island.. those were the Indians, so in perspective he did only discover it for the Europeans (if that).

2) Finding Guanahani to be of little interest, Colombus actually landed on Hispanola, in what is now Haiti and also built his first settlement there. With planking saved from the Santa Maria when it hit a coral reef on X-mas eve 23 December 1492, he built a fort, near Cap-Haitian.

3) The country of the DR measures 48,734 sq miles, about 10% more than mentioned in your post.

4) As far a giving birth to the Spanish empire imo that had already happened in Spain during the reconquista. I seriously doubt that the Spanish empire in SA had existed without the century long struggles against the Moores to liberate their home-country, which produced a warrior-class that was, at the time in history, unrivaled in the world. The reconquista had ended, they needed to provide a new focus and objective for this class before things got out of hand..

5) As far as the American continent was born (apart from the geological argument that it was born quite a few years before that) there are some arguments to make here too. There are two American continents NA and SA, with good reason. The NA continent was born if you like to use that term from the development from the English, Dutch and French colonies in the North, whereas the SA continent was born from the development of the Spanish capitanias, one of which was Santo Domingo, which included Cuba (el jabe del Caribe), where the eventual capital of this part of the empire was established in Havana, to effectively rule the Spanish Carribean area (including Florida).

6) The Dominican Republic itself did not gain indepence until 3 March 1865, when the Spaniards withdrew from the island.

7) However, while perhaps not on such a grand scale as depicted in your post, the Dominican people have produced some notable leaders and people. For me the most notable would be General Gomez Baez, who was the chief liberator of Cuba and is revered evermore on that island as their great liberator, you should see the statue he has on their most prominent boulevard in Havana. Also worth mention was the last Taino chief Hatuey, the first resister to foreign rule, who took refuge on Cuba.

8) The Dominican Republic has also produced a lot of value I still enjoy today, such as ron, puros and most of all the music. In my mind those are the things that make the Dominican Republic a proud country and will let the Dominicans claim their rightful place as a proud people amongst other nations.

Cheers,

MD

You gave a clear example of what Nals and AZB are trying to point out, you did so by highjacking the thread by quoting me out of context.

Given I did have a mental hiccup and gave the wrong size of the DR, my bad, mea culpa, the rest of your post is either out of context, your opinion, or just in general trivial to the subject at hand.

The fact Columbus first sight of land was San Salvador is out of context when I clearly am talking about FIRST CITY.

What does the fact there were natives on the island have to do with anything? If you read my post I said Colombus/Spain "discovered" new civilizations. Again you want to trivialize this important moment by saying they were only unknown to Europeans?

As far as the Spanish empire, you should look-up the definition of empire my friend.

Prior to the discovery of the "New World" Spain had no land outside the Iberian pen. except maybe the Canary islands.

The two main motivations to finance the voyage of Columbus by the queen was:

1. To look for new wealth, as much of it was lost in the reconquista.
2. Spread Christianity.

Both of these goals were attained upon the discovery of the "new world". Gold was found on Quisqueya as were people in need to be converted. Soon after (1500's) Carlos 1 became King of Spain after the death of Fernando, and took over the domain of the Habsburgs and later becoming emperor of the Holy Roman Empire.

The last part of your post is the saddest and is plain proof of the self-importantance given by the North. You said it yourself, all the English French and "Dutch"? did were settle in the Northeast.

You forget that the significant moment I mentioned was the first European to DISCOVER and later settle on what is today the USA, was Ponce De Leon, he founded St. Augustine, the oldest city of what is today the US and NORTH AMERICA.
But ok if you like we can also debate the importance of "New Spain" which was basically all of modern Mexico up to the southern and west part of current USA. These current US lands, the richest considering the oil of Texas and the gold of the west, which certainly helped fuel the wealth and power of the northeast colonies.

Your mention of Havana is another attempt to dilute the fact that the FIRST outpost of the new world was what is now Santo Domingo.

Your last mention of music shows, like CC, that for whatever reason you came to the DR be it for music or prostitution, that is your own reality and to say that is the only worth of this country is pretty shallow and sad point of view, but again I am not trying to change your mind, that is your business I am just stating an objective point of view, History.
 
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