Dominicans take their place as an American success story.

johne

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Jun 28, 2003
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Today's New York Times (education section) above titled article. One half page written by Samuel G. Freedman. Maybe someone can help with a link to the article.

JOHN
 

Chris_NJ

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Dec 17, 2003
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Great article, I will definitely forward it on. The best point the author makes is of the of how despite limited education by parents many Dominicans are making higher education a priority whereas others “adopts the most self-destructive attitudes of poor, urban America.’’ The question is as the years and generations go by which group will prevail in shaping the image of a Dominican American.
 
J

jaredhobbs

Guest
Here's a transcript of the story for those too lazy to register...

Dominicans Take Their Place as an American Success Story
By SAMUEL G. FREEDMAN

Published: January 5, 2005

BETTE KERR made sure to arrive at the restaurant early so she could arrange for the waitress to give her the check. There was no way she was going to let a former student, not even one as successful as Mirkeya Capellan, pay for lunch.

They had been talking about this reunion for six years, since Professor Kerr had retired from Hostos Community College in the Bronx, and as Ms. Capellan had gone from a bewildered new immigrant to an information-technology consultant with a master's degree and a Mercedes sedan.

No sooner did Ms. Capellan reach the table, though, than she blushingly admitted she had left something back in the adjoining bar. She skittered off, and returned a moment later with the missing article - 17 other Hostos alumni who had secretly gathered to thank both Professor Kerr and a faculty colleague, Lewis Levine. All but a handful of the celebrators had come to America, like Ms. Capellan, from the Dominican Republic.

During their student days, Professor Levine had taught them in his intensive, accelerated course in English as a Second Language. He required them to read The New York Times and visit the Metropolitan Museum of Art and explore the culinary mysteries of Zabar's. He pretended not to know Spanish, even as he understood every curse they uttered when he returned an essay covered with so much red ink the students called it an arbolito, a little Christmas tree.

Professor Kerr had gleaned the best of Professor Levine's progeny and, as director of academic advisement, trained them to be peer advisers to other Hostos students. She had all those rules, about not chewing gum or wearing jeans, and the only excuse for missing her Tuesday afternoon session was death. When it came time for Professor Kerr's prot?g?s to finish their associate's degrees and apply to senior colleges, she alerted them to scholarships and wrote recommendation letters so eloquent that several students ultimately framed them.

And on this festive Saturday shortly before Christmas, they surrounded her. There sat Robinson de Jesus, the son of a barber with a second-grade education, now working as a corporate auditor. Nearby was Fenix Arias, who arrived in New York at age 17 in 1993 knowing only a few English words from a Dominican pop song. These days she is the director of testing for York College in Queens.

Beyond its poignancy to the participants, this reunion touched on a much larger phenomenon. It attested to the striking and yet unheralded success of Dominican immigrant students in higher education, and specifically in the City University of New York system, that legendary ladder of upward mobility for earlier waves of newcomers.

All but invisibly to much of Anglo society, the percentage of Dominicans age 25 or older with some college education more than doubled from 1980 to 2000 to 35 percent of American-born Dominicans and 17 percent of Dominican immigrants, according to a new study by Prof. Ramona Hernandez, a sociologist who directs the Dominican Studies Institute at CUNY. (For all Americans, the percentage with some college is 52, the study found.) These accomplishments occurred even though, of all the ethnic and national groups in CUNY, Dominican students were from the poorest households and had the least-educated parents.

Clearly, however, those parents are investing their children with some classic immigrant aspirations. "We came here to make it," said Professor Hernandez, who moved to New York herself in her late teens. "When we leave home, we really leave. This is it for us. You have this immigrant courage, energy, desire."

Parents who work at draining jobs for meager wages - janitors, cabbies, seamstresses, hairdressers - point to their own toil as the fate their children must avoid. A popular Dominican aphorism, mindful not only of low-wage labor but the presence of some Dominicans in drug-dealing, makes a similar admonition. "No quiero ser una m?s del mont?n," it says, which translates as, "I don't want to be part of the pile."

Ms. Arias remembers her father's rewarding her with $10 and a dinner of the savory soup known as sancocho for every A on her college transcript; he cried on the day she received her acceptance as a transfer student to Columbia University. Mr. de Jesus's father took such pride in Robinson's graduation from Baruch College that every afternoon for a month before commencement exercises he would put on his only suit.

In the 39 years since the United States reopened its doors to large-scale immigration, it has become sadly routine to hear and read criticisms of these arrivals from Asia, Africa, the Caribbean Basin and Latin America as somehow more clannish, less devoted to America and the English language than their European forebears in the period from roughly 1850 to 1920. Any cursory look at the nativist lobby's publications and Web sites would lead one to believe that post-1965 immigrants, especially Hispanic ones, present nothing less than a threat to the republic.

BUT if it is accurate to call Korean immigrants the new Jews - a largely educated, urbanized population in its homeland that rapidly surged into higher education and the professions in America - then the Dominicans may be the modern-day equivalent of the Italians. In this case, the peasantry has come from the Cibao valley or the Santo Domingo barrios instead of the Mezzogiorno, but the upward mobility through public education and small business follows the same trajectory.

As Professor Hernandez's survey suggests, the concern about Dominicans should be not that they Americanize too slowly but too fast, or perhaps too selectively. Between 1980 and 2000, even as Dominican immigrants became more likely to earn a high school diploma, the share of American-born Dominicans whose formal education ended with a high school diploma dropped markedly - from about one-third to one-fifth. More students either dropped out or moved up. Those numbers tell a chastening story about what happens when the immigrant drive doesn't lift a family into the middle class and the next generation adopts the most self-destructive attitudes of poor, urban America, about how doing well in school is just for chumps.

"When people said, 'You can't make it,' I wanted to show them," Ms. Capellan put it. "My first year at Hunter College, I was pregnant, and people would say to me: 'Too bad. You're like my friend's daughter. She never went back to school.' But I told myself, 'No way.' "

E-mail: sgfreedman@nytimes.com


http://jennyhobbs.spymac.net
http://jaredhobbs.spymac.net
 

Ken

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
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A heart warming article.

At one time Dominicans were welcome immigrants to the US and the percentage of Dominicans given visas and rsidency was very high for the size of the population. The DR was in the top ten world wide.

Then the tide turned and Dominicans got the reputation as criminals and drug trafficers.

It seems from this article that the tide is turning again and I am very glad to learn of it.
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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Prof. Hern?ndez seems to indicate a contrary view

to many "established" beliefs regarding Latino immigrations.

Many anthropologists, sociologists and historians look at the Latino immigration as the same type as the immigration of the Spanish who came to the New World to make a fortune and return to the Madre Patria to show off their new-found fame and fortune.

In general, I would say that this is true, for the most part, for Dominicans today. They go to New York to make money-oftentimes anyway they can-and return to build huge palaces in the barrios where they were born and raised, and walk around with a pistol in their belts and gold chains on their arms and necks and ankles...(yes, the women do it too,.) There are even bachatas to attest to this theme.

Hernandez's study seems to say that the educated Domincans are going to make it there and stay there. This would be interesting to study down the line.

HB
 

Stodgord

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Nov 19, 2004
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I can relate to the characters in the NY Times article.

Hillbilly said:
to many "established" beliefs regarding Latino immigrations.

Many anthropologists, sociologists and historians look at the Latino immigration as the same type as the immigration of the Spanish who came to the New World to make a fortune and return to the Madre Patria to show off their new-found fame and fortune.

In general, I would say that this is true, for the most part, for Dominicans today. They go to New York to make money-oftentimes anyway they can-and return to build huge palaces in the barrios where they were born and raised, and walk around with a pistol in their belts and gold chains on their arms and necks and ankles...(yes, the women do it too,.) There are even bachatas to attest to this theme.

Hernandez's study seems to say that the educated Domincans are going to make it there and stay there. This would be interesting to study down the line.

HB

I can relate to the characters in this story.

My Parents came to the US in the mid 80s and were able to bring their 4 kids within a year. My mom only has a first grade education and my father a third grade. When they came here they were janitor (father) and housekeeper (mother). On back to school season, they shopped at the local thriftshop for our back to school clothes. My mother, although her education was minimal, she always emphasized on education. Today, my oldest brother has a degree in computer science and is a senior network administrator for Deutsch bank, my second older brother, although not working in his field, has a bachelor in finance, my little sister has a degree in Math and work for JP Morgan Chase as a financial consultant and I have a degree in Mechanical Engineer and I am currently a lieutenant in the US Navy.

My parents and my siblings are naturalized US citizen and I have never heard them say they will take all their earned money back to the DR. We love this country and the opportunities that has given us. Some other Dominicans call us "vende patria" but I tell them, everything we have is because of the US and not the DR. Many times I ask myself "If this dark skinned immigrant who speak English with an accent made it, why a white american, fluent in English bum could not."
 

Fred

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Feb 20, 2002
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Good for you

This is something I have never been able to understand. Why would anyone be loyal to a country that cannot even give them the basics in life, let alone opportunity?

Sometime I feel that Dominicans want to go back only to show off to their friends and family, like I have said so many times before, they will encounter the same problems that they left to escape in the first place.
 

hugoke01

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Dec 31, 2004
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Drugs and Immigration

A lot of the palaces built in the RD by Domincans seem to be related to people related with drugs at least this is what the proper Dominicans tell you .when visiting places like Jarabacoa or others where wealthy people like to settle ..In Spain more and more Dominicans get involved with drugs .. It's a pity but it's true .. Those who really succeed would stay where they are and it's a pity too. I like to congratulate the family who came to the US had 4 children and all 4 studied and have great jobs now. I really find this great ..But on the other hand these are the kind of people the RD needs to get out of their image of criminality and drug paradise .. but I understand them . Also a lot of immigrants return for their vacation with as mentioned gold chains etc... and they look as if they made it it but the reality is quite different in many cases .. These people spent during their vacations all the money they made and return as poor to the US as if they went for the first time .. It's a big show ... When speaking or discussing about the RD believe that we can't forget to talk about drugs... When you get rich in the US today you need really a good job .. I do know that people who work (manual work ) in the US are paid between 11 and 15 USD an hour ..This makes you a netto pay of 1,300 to 1,500 USD a month .. You can built a mansion with this salary .. There are for sure immigrants who make a lot of money ifthey are excellent commercial people but the majority works in anormal job..
I have been visiting the US since 1970 and spent last year 4 months (partially in thearea of New York and Nemphis and the only observation I made wa that in the US normal people (workers ) are poorer and poorer .. and in general the first who suffer are the immigrants doing jobs nobody wants to do at salaries nobody finds attractive ..
Once more like to congratulate the parents of these 4 choldren who made it in the US.
Hillbilly said:
to many "established" beliefs regarding Latino immigrations.

Many anthropologists, sociologists and historians look at the Latino immigration as the same type as the immigration of the Spanish who came to the New World to make a fortune and return to the Madre Patria to show off their new-found fame and fortune.

In general, I would say that this is true, for the most part, for Dominicans today. They go to New York to make money-oftentimes anyway they can-and return to build huge palaces in the barrios where they were born and raised, and walk around with a pistol in their belts and gold chains on their arms and necks and ankles...(yes, the women do it too,.) There are even bachatas to attest to this theme.

Hernandez's study seems to say that the educated Domincans are going to make it there and stay there. This would be interesting to study down the line.

HB
 

Stodgord

Bronze
Nov 19, 2004
668
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Thanks for your complements.

I myself cannot coprehend the attitude that my compatriots take when it comes to visiting the homeland. These people borrow money from loan sharks that will charge them 5 to 10 % a WEEK in interest. They will buy all these jewelries and clothes with loaned money. When they get there they give away everything and get involved in shady land deals. It is sad that they are teaching their kids how to be materialistic.
 

deelt

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Mar 23, 2004
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I actually have looked at the numbers and conducted some estimates....the answer is very,very very few people actually go back and stay permanently in DR unless they were deported from the US. The impact on DR of having those deported is also minimal. Studies from comparable contries suggest it is even insignificant. Basically, the country is trying to find scapegoats to blame it's social problems/ills.

People who borrow money to go to DR are just ignorant and are lacking in self-esteem. This is what they define as success. It is sad but its real. I expect those ignorant habits to die down considerable with another generation or two. The more you move out of NYC you will see they it is a negligible percentage of the Dominican population that still buys into that stereotype hype.

D

Hillbilly said:
to many "established" beliefs regarding Latino immigrations.

Many anthropologists, sociologists and historians look at the Latino immigration as the same type as the immigration of the Spanish who came to the New World to make a fortune and return to the Madre Patria to show off their new-found fame and fortune.

In general, I would say that this is true, for the most part, for Dominicans today. They go to New York to make money-oftentimes anyway they can-and return to build huge palaces in the barrios where they were born and raised, and walk around with a pistol in their belts and gold chains on their arms and necks and ankles...(yes, the women do it too,.) There are even bachatas to attest to this theme.

Hernandez's study seems to say that the educated Domincans are going to make it there and stay there. This would be interesting to study down the line.

HB
 
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DMAO

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Oct 30, 2004
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Stodgord said:
My parents and my siblings are naturalized US citizen and I have never heard them say they will take all their earned money back to the DR.

We love this country and the opportunities that has given us. Some other Dominicans call us "vende patria" but I tell them, everything we have is because of the US and not the DR.

Many times I ask myself "If this dark skinned immigrant who speak English with an accent made it, why a white american, fluent in English bum could not."

Congratulations to you and your family.
Well said. This is all very true.
 

deelt

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Mar 23, 2004
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Personally the mercedes is a social class status symbol. Dominicans have gotten smart. These individuals highlighted have traded in the image of success (thick gold chains/rings, thick white socks with black patten(sp?) leather shoes) for more Americanized "live the dream" items (a nice car, a house, an education). Flaunting it is a virtued to these people. (It reminds me of an article in the NYT a few years back about how "tough" the well-to where having it in "certain town" in CT...the woman talking about poverty was sporting a $3000 purse and walking with an expensive Starbucks latte. LOL)

Question 2, Part 1 of 3:
As for post education I won't post my theory since it will hijack the thread. But you can look up a recent thread on assimilation. My postings there express my theory. (It was on last weeks NYTs article regarding Ramona Hernandez, who is also cited in this article).

Question 2, Part 2 of 3:
Many Dominicans pay for their schooling. Some more than others.
I have a friend with a 40k debt and she is only 21. But trust me she is already making more money that her family has ever seen together with only 7 months out of college. Taking her health-care worker Mom to 5th Ave. Spas. If your grades were like her's maybe you too would have gotten a scholarship. Another issue is that there are many schools that provide a free education regardless of color, creed, or sexual orientation. You just have to do your homework and cash in while the iron is hot. There is no guarantee that once they obtain an American degree they will return to DR. My personal experience is that many Dominicans in DR DO NOT want to benefit from the skill sets we bring to the table. They will SAY the opposite, but their ACTIONS speak louder than words. So I forsee Rachel staying on a bit.

Question 2, Part 3 of 3:
Maybe you were paying too much attention at Rachel's ASSets rather than taking care of your school work. Just a theory.

el gringo 762 said:
mention the subject of the article owns a mercedes. 1. does that make you success?

2. is the declinning post education numbers due to the loss of motivation or financing once you no longer have that green card. too many free educations being handed out in us universities to people that have no intention of being a gringo. rachel pena, eduacted at fordham university used to break my *** about the pendero gringo. that's right. my daddy and daddy's daddy might have fought for this country, but i had to pay for my school. rachel with her great butt and nice (you know) gets it for free. that's why all the imiigrants say "god bless america".

anyway, i must have taken a long drink on that "hater aid" this morning. don't worry rachel, i still love you.
 

FuegoAzul21

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Jun 28, 2004
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Its great to read good news like this, as oppose to some drug dealer getting busted .Im happy that good to do Dominicans are geting recignized in this country and hopefully in the future change our image.
 

deelt

Bronze
Mar 23, 2004
987
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I think you mean, sister, gringo. On all your points you will receive no arguments from me. I repudiate and despise those that manipulate/abuse the system for their own personal gain at the cost of hard working tax payers, like me and you. But I think that those that take advantage are a small minority...and growing smaller. Most of these people are living on borrowed credit. Tacky enough to think that having a fancy car, clothes, trips really means something. It's the irony of ironies. Also, many are also coming to the realization that their ill gotten gains is coming back to bite them in the arse. It just doesn't pay to cheat the government. For example, many who worked for years without reporting to the federal government or paying their respective social security taxes are hurting big time right now. Many have tried to apply for SSI but have been rejected. Most of these families are just poor folks that are just that...still poor. Whose kids aren't going anywhere and you don't see because they don't have the money to travel to DR. For many it could even be 15+ years since they had last seen DR.

Again, the subtly that I think you are not getting is that the "rich retiring exodus" you mention is solely an illusion, and a negligible number. As such, the sample you use to make your claims has a self-selection problem.

I.e. my 21 y.o. friend is from the HEART of Washington Heights but she was raised with a Mom who believed that it was better for her disabled retarded son to WORK than to receive even ONE SSI check. It has made him a better person, and a family I highly respect. It's been years since she has return to DR do to lack of funds. It is these types of families you won't see on the plane. So at the end of the day, I think you are making sweeping generalizations based on your limited exposure references.

Lastly, let's not forget that the overwhelming majority is in the country receiving public assistance is...El Gringo Claro. Not dominicans, blacks, asains, etc. So in the scope of things, I would focus my energy on battling Bush on his fake Social Security crisis, poor management of health care, etc. Talk the real issues that impact ever day lives regardless if you are a rural white poor farmer or an urban poor black single parent.

el gringo 762 said:
the car. and i had long before i would have considered myself successful. my point was that i don't want my nina to grow up with the assumption that success is measured by the vehicle one drives.

with regard to great Dominican rip offs:

1. i was simply making a point that it is easier for a young person from an immigrant family, nyc to go to college than one from a gringo's family. as these communities mature, the ability for its members to hide earnings decreases for the whole as more are employed in skilled work forces thereby creating a paper trail. no more, "i'm sorry nyu, mi mommy and poppi no tiene denero! NO PROBLEM, YOU POOR THING. STUPID GRINGO WILL PAY FOR IT.

go ahead, hate the game not the player.... i'm just talking the truth here. how about half of washington heights on welfare and rolling home to the dom for vacation, after the kids have been educated for free in our public funded universities they roll back to the island and retire living like kings. again, thanks a lot gringo...
 
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deelt

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Mar 23, 2004
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Also the first soldier to die in Afghanistan was a Dominican-American young man who grew up in the Heights. Bush/Rumsfeld barely cared enough to send a letter and a flag. And as you probably read in the papers, Rumsfeld didn't even sign that...

el gringo 762 said:
besides: many dominicano's have already given their lives in iraq w/o citizenship. that's some good stuff.

On the other stuff, no issues. I think your points are well taken.
 

Mirkeya

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Jan 11, 2005
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Hello All!

First of all, I want to thank those that liked the article. I hope we can have more stories like this.

Thanks Deelt for clarifying the meaning of the "car" in the article. Most Dominicans that you see in a luxury car today are believed to be Drug Dealers or something else, but not an educated person with an honest job.

I consider myself successful because I have a beautiful family, a house, a job that I love, health, the car of my dreams, and friends. What else I can ask for? I came to NY when I was 16 years old without any knowledge of the English language. I wanted to have a better life not just for me but also for my mother that was in DR. Being so young, I could have chosen to do the wrong things but I did not. Why? I know what is like not to have shoes or clothing to wear. I came from one of the poorest barrios in DR known as ?El 70?. I?m sure some of you have heard about it. If you have visited ?el zoologico?, El 70 is next to it. The barrio is usually used in Unicef commercials.

Just one more thing, remember that every person is different. We are not the same and don?t think the same. Dominicans will continue to success regardless of all the negative things that we see out there. As of myself, I plan to make a difference and I?m sure all of you too.

Mirkeya ;)




deelt said:
Also the first soldier to die in Afghanistan was a Dominican-American young man who grew up in the Heights. Bush/Rumsfeld barely cared enough to send a letter and a flag. And as you probably read in the papers, Rumsfeld didn't even sign that...



On the other stuff, no issues. I think your points are well taken.
 

Gimabella

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Sep 15, 2003
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congratulations to all

Mirkeya said:
First of all, I want to thank those that liked the article. I hope we can have more stories like this.

Thanks Deelt for clarifying the meaning of the "car" in the article. Most Dominicans that you see in a luxury car today are believed to be Drug Dealers or something else, but not an educated person with an honest job.

I consider myself successful because I have a beautiful family, a house, a job that I love, health, the car of my dreams, and friends. What else I can ask for? I came to NY when I was 16 years old without any knowledge of the English language. I wanted to have a better life not just for me but also for my mother that was in DR. Being so young, I could have chosen to do the wrong things but I did not. Why? I know what is like not to have shoes or clothing to wear. I came from one of the poorest barrios in DR known as ?El 70?. I?m sure some of you have heard about it. If you have visited ?el zoologico?, El 70 is next to it. The barrio is usually used in Unicef commercials.

Just one more thing, remember that every person is different. We are not the same and don?t think the same. Dominicans will continue to success regardless of all the negative things that we see out there. As of myself, I plan to make a difference and I?m sure all of you too.

Mirkeya ;)


Mirkeya and the rest who have achieved many goals willing to combat the sterotypical names we Domincan-Americans get,,
hola

i felt i needed to congratulate you and ur family for the great success you have achieved in the USA even having Dominican parents with little or no education like many of us....i am an Economics major at Hunter College in NYC, i will graduate in the Fall with my BA in Economics, already have an AAS in Business Mgt and Marketing and have an exceptional GPA, i am currently the youngest Adjudications Officer in the Eastern District of Homeland Security in NYC and i'm only 22 y/o, no kids, single,and still at home with my mom..

my brother is a junior at LIU media Arts major and he too has acheived many things at just the prime age of 20 he also works with me at Homeland Security as a file assistant...

this comes to show you that we have managed to get out of the steriotype of Domincans messing up, with drugs, having babies at young age, and all of that negative comments..

thanks to people like you and your siblings of whom we follow their steps, for giving us good examples.....

muchas felicidades en tus logros
especially to your parents who have managed to raise such well children........

(this message i had previosly e-mailed it to a poster here, and felt i should post it on this forum as well)
 

deelt

Bronze
Mar 23, 2004
987
2
0
Hi Mirkeya,

No problem. I applaud your accomplishments.

Deelt

Mirkeya said:
First of all, I want to thank those that liked the article. I hope we can have more stories like this.

Thanks Deelt for clarifying the meaning of the "car" in the article. Most Dominicans that you see in a luxury car today are believed to be Drug Dealers or something else, but not an educated person with an honest job.

I consider myself successful because I have a beautiful family, a house, a job that I love, health, the car of my dreams, and friends. What else I can ask for? I came to NY when I was 16 years old without any knowledge of the English language. I wanted to have a better life not just for me but also for my mother that was in DR. Being so young, I could have chosen to do the wrong things but I did not. Why? I know what is like not to have shoes or clothing to wear. I came from one of the poorest barrios in DR known as ?El 70?. I?m sure some of you have heard about it. If you have visited ?el zoologico?, El 70 is next to it. The barrio is usually used in Unicef commercials.

Just one more thing, remember that every person is different. We are not the same and don?t think the same. Dominicans will continue to success regardless of all the negative things that we see out there. As of myself, I plan to make a difference and I?m sure all of you too.

Mirkeya ;)