Corruption in new government worse than Hipolito's

Conchman

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We were just informed that a proposed multi-million dollar project would require an 'investment advisor' (a person on the presidents staff who I don't want to name right now) who would cost 5% of the value of the project. This comes directly from the Presidents office but I don't think he knows his people are doing this.

After the meeting, which they requested, he wanted US$1,000 in cash to cover expenses.

Not even Hipolito's people were this bold.
 

Spirit7

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Aug 26, 2004
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Not even close!

Whatever is 'uncovered' in this government will not come even close to the disaster that was Hipolito's government of hoodlums, criminals and drug-traffickers. That someone in this government was asking for a 1,000 dollar kickback is par for the course in this and any of all other governments in the history of the country. This is the Dominican Republic, a banana republic, still, very Latin-American like with a CULTURAL problem of corruption, regardless of what party is in charge.
 

Robert

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Conchman said:
We were just informed that a proposed multi-million dollar project would require an 'investment advisor' (a person on the presidents staff who I don't want to name right now) who would cost 5% of the value of the project. This comes directly from the Presidents office but I don't think he knows his people are doing this.

After the meeting, which they requested, he wanted US$1,000 in cash to cover expenses.

Not even Hipolito's people were this bold.

That's sad. I'm sure if Leonel knew, his *** would be hung out to dry.
Especially knowing what a great job you people have done for tourism on the North Coast and the DR as a whole.

I'm all for naming names, it's the only way you are going to stop this type of low life corruption. In the current climate, I'm sure the press would have a field day with this person.

Feel free to PM me.
 

Dolores1

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May 3, 2000
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Meetings such as those should be taped. Would make great TV footage for Nuria's investigative journalism show. Would do the country a favor if anyone produces such a tape, also a check to future corruption.

Companies are more vulnerable to "facilitation fees" when a special favor or presidential/governmental authorization to get around what is standard procedure is needed.

Despite several cases of corruption, overall the Fernandez government had a repute of being less prone to corruption and services for the most part did not require facilitation when within the law.

Wouldn't pay a penny.
 

Conchman

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Spirit7 said:
Whatever is 'uncovered' in this government will not come even close to the disaster that was Hipolito's government of hoodlums, criminals and drug-traffickers. That someone in this government was asking for a 1,000 dollar kickback is par for the course in this and any of all other governments in the history of the country. This is the Dominican Republic, a banana republic, still, very Latin-American like with a CULTURAL problem of corruption, regardless of what party is in charge.


5% on dozens of millions is far more than $1,000
 
Names

Give the names, hopefully they will get back to Fernadez, your company has done more for the country than most and they really need your new project.

Economy and jobs are and will be available from your project, let Leonel hang this dude out to dry.

mi dos peso's
 

PJT

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Jan 8, 2002
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What we need are "Whistle Blowers"

What we need to do is buy "Whistle Blowers" However, this is not going to happen in this culture. Dream on PJT.

If this new government expects to really gain the publics confidence it needs to shake up the status-quo.

I would like a law that would act as a monetary incentive to expose government corruption. Let's suggest a law that would force any person,(victim) asked for a "special favor" and any witness(es) to the event, must report it immediately to the authorities. They as result of their testimony, proves a criminal act was made and the perpetrator is found guilty, the now criminal must be forced to pay a fine equal to the "special favor" to the person, witness(es), and double the fine to the government. If they, victim and witness(es) do not report it, they are just as guilty, and subject to the same fine as the perpetrator.

As I said - Dream on PJT

Regards,
PJT
 

thepiper

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Jan 25, 2005
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So sad

Wow you guy's must be new. Never give as advice that someone give names. This surely will get to leonel and if the mess made, by the sh** hitting the fan, is big enough he will most likely take action. Move people around and then what do you have, a goverment that does not like you whislter blower.

Also I would like to say, as a Dominican Businessman, that the corruption
in every goverment that dr has had is the same. I will admit there is a difference between say pld and prd corruption. This difference can be sumed up by my experience with the DGII our version of the IRS. In 1995 I had to give a RD$3000.00 payoff for a RD$30,000.00 rebate on property taxes(this during a prsc gov.) . In 1998 it was up RD$10,000.00 for RD$30,000.00 rebate (this during pld first gov.). During the much hated prd gov. this went down to it's old value.

The difference lies in that not every one could get the rebate in the pld gov. thus the elusion that their gov. is less corrupt.

What is the moral difference between a 50 dollar whore and that of one that charges 500 dollars. I say nothing at all. Don't let anyone confuse you in dr about our politicians. They are all as corrupt as possible willing to do anything for money.

Now as a dominican that was not born a blue blood, yes many dominicans believe themselves to be bluebloods or of the aristocratic cream of the dominican society, I can tell you I loved and will love Hipolito for one reason alone. He took on and loss to this people like that thief Baez figueroa of Baninter. That is where the true corruption lies in this country in us the businessmen and women.

If you believe that you can compete in this country without some kind of kickback to the gov. party, you have a big and rude awakening coming towards you. So find something to hold on to so as not to be swept away by the tsunami we dominicans call " los comesolos".
 

Mr_DR

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Just give me the names and i will immediately contact all the newspapers there.
 

tomgallo

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Mar 25, 2004
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PJT said:
What we need to do is buy "Whistle Blowers" However, this is not going to happen in this culture. Dream on PJT.

If this new government expects to really gain the publics confidence it needs to shake up the status-quo.

I would like a law that would act as a monetary incentive to expose government corruption. Let's suggest a law that would force any person,(victim) asked for a "special favor" and any witness(es) to the event, must report it immediately to the authorities. They as result of their testimony, proves a criminal act was made and the perpetrator is found guilty, the now criminal must be forced to pay a fine equal to the "special favor" to the person, witness(es), and double the fine to the government. If they, victim and witness(es) do not report it, they are just as guilty, and subject to the same fine as the perpetrator.

As I said - Dream on PJT

Regards,
PJT

"Corruption" is double sided word. We tend to identify the "Corrupted" but we seldom think about the "Corruptor" (Seller=Corrupted / Buyer=Corruptor)

How about the big "Transnational Corporation" that comes to poor countries and buy their way in (this is the case of the corruptor) Let's take a whole approach and also talk about those "Corruptors".

Corruption is not only related to money changing hands it also takes place when a friend in a position of trust is called upon to fix your/my problems without respect for due process.
 

sweetdbt

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Sep 17, 2004
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tomgallo said:
"Corruption" is double sided word. We tend to identify the "Corrupted" but we seldom think about the "Corruptor" (Seller=Corrupted / Buyer=Corruptor)

How about the big "Transnational Corporation" that comes to poor countries and buy their way in (this is the case of the corruptor) Let's take a whole approach and also talk about those "Corruptors".

Corruption is not only related to money changing hands it also takes place when a friend in a position of trust is called upon to fix your/my problems without respect for due process.

Dead on target tomgallo, and it's not just the big things, it's the small ones too. I remember a spirited discussion/debate here a while back about a silly little thing like tinted windows. There were people here who thought that the way to deal with it was to ignore the law, and then call in a favor from a well-placed friend if they got caught.
 

tomgallo

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sweetdbt said:
Dead on target tomgallo, and it's not just the big things, it's the small ones too. I remember a spirited discussion/debate here a while back about a silly little thing like tinted windows. There were people here who thought that the way to deal with it was to ignore the law, and then call in a favor from a well-placed friend if they got caught.


It would be interesting to start a "thread" about corruption and just see the "opinions" coming in. We may see that "corruption" has a different meaning to different people. I would say that every time you call your friends or your lawyer's friends to fix any of your problems you're a net contributor to the "corruption" situation of the country.
 

Lambada

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tomgallo said:
It would be interesting to start a "thread" about corruption and just see the "opinions" coming in. We may see that "corruption" has a different meaning to different people. I would say that every time you call your friends or your lawyer's friends to fix any of your problems you're a net contributor to the "corruption" situation of the country.


Well..........maybe. Alternatively you may have been unjustifiably accused of something you haven't done, & need to call on your 'friends' so you don't suffer a penalty that would not be fair, either morally or 'legally'.

Views on this tend to be related to the length of time spent living in this country! The longer you are here the more you realise that there are no black & whites in this area......which is ok if grey is your favourite colour.......or you have a few well placed 'friends'!
 

sweetdbt

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Lambada said:
Well..........maybe. Alternatively you may have been unjustifiably accused of something you haven't done, & need to call on your 'friends' so you don't suffer a penalty that would not be fair, either morally or 'legally'.

Views on this tend to be related to the length of time spent living in this country! The longer you are here the more you realise that there are no black & whites in this area......which is ok if grey is your favourite colour.......or you have a few well placed 'friends'!

I think "every" and "any" can be used (or taken) too literally. IMHO the type of scenario you mentioned would be just the "exception that proves the rule". Really apples and oranges when compared with someone deliberately thumbing their nose at the law or regularly circumventing the system for personal gain.

In fact, I could easily picture a scenario where a "corruptor" (tomgallo's term) would find themself in such a situation and discover that their corrupted "friend" who had granted them all those easy favors before, would leave them high and dry in a situation when it would require really "sticking your neck out" to help.

I seem to remember reading something here about a friend of yours being unjustly accused, so your pointing that out would be more than understandable, and the point is valid.
 

Lambada

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......or the corrupted 'friend' was no longer in office & therefore didn't have 'pull' any more..........like I said, no black & whites on this issue. Provided one has one's own high moral code, then it is usually clear when this is justified & when it is not.

Would love to have this conversation after you've been living here 10 years or so...................... ;)
 

tomgallo

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Mar 25, 2004
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Lambada said:
......or the corrupted 'friend' was no longer in office & therefore didn't have 'pull' any more..........like I said, no black & whites on this issue. Provided one has one's own high moral code, then it is usually clear when this is justified & when it is not.

Would love to have this conversation after you've been living here 10 years or so...................... ;)


After being 10 years in the country, you would do "What the Romans do"

No argument about this! My point is that you can not be 1/2 pregnant. We just have to accept that we're "corrupted" as well. The end does no justify the "means".
 

Lambada

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You're absolutely right that I can't be 1/2 pregnant................. ;)

I don't think I could say that the end never justifies the means.........I don't think I could be that categoric.....being here 12 years has taught me to be far
less didactic than I was before. Now is that being 'corrupt' in your terms? Or is that being more flexible in the acculturation process?
 

tomgallo

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Lambada said:
You're absolutely right that I can't be 1/2 pregnant................. ;)

I don't think I could say that the end never justifies the means.........I don't think I could be that categoric.....being here 12 years has taught me to be far
less didactic than I was before. Now is that being 'corrupt' in your terms? Or is that being more flexible in the acculturation process?


Yes, do credit yourself but also give "credit" to the other side as well. How about needing to feed the family, medicine etc... and taking a bribe?
 

Rick Snyder

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Why do the Dominicans not use their voices?

What is wrong with people? Why are they not demanding that something be done?

23 Feb Listin Diario ? The ex-chief of the Air Force, (ret) General Virgilio Sierra P?rez (PRD), expropriated more then 200 tareas of land from a family to build an airfield for Quirino Paulino Castillo.

24 Feb Listin Diario ? The past government, (PRD), made a lagoon on land owned by Quirino Paulino Castillo at a cost of RD$ 6 million and used state owned equipment at an additional cost of RD$ 2 million.

The ex-president of Plan Renove, Pedro Franco Badia (PRD) wants ex-president Hip?lito Mej?a to be questioned in the swindling of more than RD$ 1,800 million in the program Plan Renove by people higher up in the government.

A few people, not many and not PRD, are asking how Quirino Paulino Castillo made it through the ranks of the military so easily, got discharged and reinstated illegally at a higher rank by people that happen to belong to the PRD. It is said that ex-president Hip?lito Mej?a was aware that Quirino Paulino Castillo was under investigation by the DNC and the DEA long before aforementioned was arrested on drug charges but the ex-president continued to support him.

These are a few of many illegal things done in the past administration . Now with things getting better and prices seem to be coming down ex-president Hip?lito Mej?a has the audacity to criticize the present administration on their operations. I am not trying to say that the PLD is perfect but I don?t think you can even begin to compare the things done by the PLD to the things done by the PRD.

IMHO the Dominican people need to bend over, and with their right hand reach under and grab their right shoulder and with their left hand grab their left shoulder and without too much twisting and turning pull their heads out. I fail to understand why there isn?t a demonstrative outcry from the people. ;) ;)