The Land of Baseball Players

Cleef

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Feb 24, 2002
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The Sporting News isn't worth the toilet paper it's printed on, but they recently did a listing of the top 50 baseball players in MLB.

By region (country/state) the Dominican Republic had 6 of the top 50. California also had 6. Of the next few listings were Venezuela and Puerto Rico with 4 & 3 respectively.

By round numbers the DR is about 9 million, California has about 35 million (not counting all the illegals).

Considering the public schooling, pristine fields, overabundance of youth leagues, travel teams, excellent coaching, facilities and training opportunities in Cali, vs. what odds the typical Dominican must overcome to achieve JUST an opportunity in baseball as such, is amazing to me.

It has to be one of the most staggering phenomenons I've ever come across in all of sports. An unofficial count of the 40 man rosters on opening day lists 90 plus Dominicans, even more staggering is that 26 of them are (listed) from Santo Domingo.

Don't get lost in the idea that, for example, Manny Ramirez is just a shade more Dominican than my white-bread arse?and is listed as being from S.D.?but also note that sissy-slapper GAYRod is not listed as Dominican in the second set of numbers I'm referring to (40-man MLB rosters).

Regardless of semantics, to consider that there are more ML'ers from one city of 3-4 million people (S.D.) than any single state (in the country where the sport was born) and whose boarders boast 100x the people is mind-boggling.

Top Export is 'talent'.

Anybody with me? Or am I just our riding my bike?
 

RubioVargas

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Mar 29, 2005
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Amen to that Cleef!

As talented as they may be, players such as Barry Bonds or Mark McGuire have never inspired me quite as much as Pedro Guerrero, George Bell, or even Manny Ramirez (Yes, Ramirez was raised in the U.S., but Washington Heights isn't exactly Beverly Hills).

Someone who overcomes much to get to where they are is much more of an inspiration than someone who is handed everything on a silver platter.

I know there's a handfull of Dominican players who grew up in relatively wealthy families (Moises Alou for example), as well as American players who had a less-than-ideal journey into the majors, but for the most part Dominican players have had nothing to help them but their raw talent and passion for the game.

Would write more, but have to go...
 

easygoin

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Jan 2, 2005
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thats why im coming most of all

to give the kids some desent equipment to play with and learn the game... and I am so happy to help out in any way I can..... I just can't wait to see their faces being so happy.

There's no doubt that the DR produces quality players. and there's a lot more to come. ;) ;)
 

BigCity27

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Mar 4, 2004
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if you want to talk sheer baseball talent ... Vladimir Guerrero is the one you, non baseball fans, need to watch. He has a cannon in right-field & can hit anything that is even close to being a strike. If I had to choose between Manny & Vlad, it would be no contest, Vlad is The Man!
 

Axelar

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Jul 28, 2004
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Forget That!

You're on the right track, but look closer and refer to a more current list... If you focus on the top 20 players, you will find that 20% are DR-born. If you choose to add-in ARod, it jumps to 25%.

BTW, there are many pristine facilities in DR that are financed by the MLB for the primary purpose of cultivating talent. However, a great ballplayer this does not make. I find that more talented players learn the craft by using minimal tools and constantly repeating the basics regardless of the condition of the field.
 

Cleef

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Feb 24, 2002
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Axelar said:
BTW, there are many pristine facilities in DR that are financed by the MLB for the primary purpose of cultivating talent. However, a great ballplayer this does not make. I find that more talented players learn the craft by using minimal tools and constantly repeating the basics regardless of the condition of the field.
I wouldn't describe anything I've seen in the DR to be even close to pristine. They may look good from the air, but up close they are 'sand lot' in the U.S. standard. The infields are crushed stone more than clay, rain lifts all the rocks up. When talent is judged in the summer leagues, field conditions are a known entity to evaluators.

I'm talking about academy fields, not backyards.
 

carl ericson70

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Nov 15, 2003
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Cleef,
I'd agree that it's amazing that so many talented ballers come out of such a small country. I think some of the reasons being are:

1. In the DR sports is seen as a ticket out of poverty for many youth and yound adults. The fact that there's so many dominicans in the ML, provides even more inspiration. It's the same in the u.s. with minorities, who're over-respresented in pro sports. For example, blacks in the u.s. are only 12% of the pop, yet when you look at their numbers in pro sports(NFL, NBA and other power sports) you find them grossly over-respresented. As with their dominican counterparts most are probably from poor backgrounds and have horror stories to tell about their lives before sports.

2. Personally, I've always thought that dominican ballers also have an edge because of their african heritage. It's well-known that people of west african descent have greater fast-twitch muscle fibres, which gives them an edge in the power sports, such as short distance sprinting. Not to mention superb hand-eye co-ordination & bodily control etc..
 

easygoin

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Jan 2, 2005
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Just good athletes

My father in the 60s coached a team ,his best player was from dr, played shortstop, and pitcher. My father said he had no father and his mother always brought him early to practice or the game. And I remember the story from being a little kid how good he was at 14 years. Still to this day my dad would love to know what came about with him and his giving mother?
 

NY1

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Feb 26, 2002
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Major trouble is brewing down on the farm:

Major League Baseball, under pressure to extend its minor league testing program to its Dominican-based farm clubs, found that 11 percent of players were using the banned muscle-building substance. Out of 894 tests given during the season, 97 were positive for steroids or related substances.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2033711


I'm sure the skeptics to the Dominican talent will suddenly latch on to this.
 

rellosk

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Mar 18, 2002
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carl ericson70 said:
Cleef,
I'd agree that it's amazing that so many talented ballers come out of such a small country. I think some of the reasons being are:

1. In the DR sports is seen as a ticket out of poverty for many youth and yound adults. The fact that there's so many dominicans in the ML, provides even more inspiration. It's the same in the u.s. with minorities, who're over-respresented in pro sports. For example, blacks in the u.s. are only 12% of the pop, yet when you look at their numbers in pro sports(NFL, NBA and other power sports) you find them grossly over-respresented. As with their dominican counterparts most are probably from poor backgrounds and have horror stories to tell about their lives before sports.

2. Personally, I've always thought that dominican ballers also have an edge because of their african heritage. It's well-known that people of west african descent have greater fast-twitch muscle fibres, which gives them an edge in the power sports, such as short distance sprinting. Not to mention superb hand-eye co-ordination & bodily control etc..
I agree with your first point, that sports are perceived as the only way out of poverty, and hence the underprivileged work harder.

Regarding your second point, I believe Jimmy The Greek's carrier ended for saying something similar. I don't believe that any race has superiority in any way (physical or intellectual) over another. We all are created equal (assuming we all receive the same prenatal care).
 

sweetdbt

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Sep 17, 2004
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rellosk said:
I agree with your first point, that sports are perceived as the only way out of poverty, and hence the underprivileged work harder.

Regarding your second point, I believe Jimmy The Greek's carrier ended for saying something similar. I don't believe that any race has superiority in any way (physical or intellectual) over another. We all are created equal (assuming we all receive the same prenatal care).

Actually, Jimmy the Greek's comments were quite different, and involved "selective breeding" among American slave owners, which has been historically proven to be almost nonexhistant.

As far as any differences in the races is concerned WHO CARES, as long as we understand that all people are equal in the sight of God and are entitled to equal respect and treatment. This political correctness stuff really irks me. It may be possible to statistically determine minor differences in some capability, whether it be physical or intellectual, along racial lines. IMHO, these are no different than differences of color, features, or type of hair which are obvious, and thus not subject to controversy. It's irrelivant if you look at people as individuals, each with their own strengths an weaknesses.
 

carl ericson70

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Nov 15, 2003
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NY1 said:
Major League Baseball, under pressure to extend its minor league testing program to its Dominican-based farm clubs, found that 11 percent of players were using the banned muscle-building substance. Out of 894 tests given during the season, 97 were positive for steroids or related substances.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2033711


I'm sure the skeptics to the Dominican talent will suddenly latch on to this.

Yes, it's true there's quite a few juicers in those DR clubs. Yet, this doesn't fully explain the amount of talent there. Juicing is also a problem in the u.s. as well. We might as well as well conclude that the majority of sports figures(past & present) were/are juicers.
 

Cleef

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Feb 24, 2002
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Juice in the minors, DR

I don't feel this report should mean much to anyone. I only read the headline, I'm not buying it.

The bigger problem is that kids are taking?as dumb as this is going to sound?"unsafe" steroids. And by that I mean taking doses that were meant for cattle and the like; nevermind the robbery involved in getting them.

As far as its affect on talent in the DR, the 'roids will get the talent noticed, but the talent is what will get the player to the game; steroids will have little-to-no part in the player getting very far.

In other words, they make the difference in a high A player making the majors and having an impact, not so much in a kid getting through the rigors of island ball?and then off the island. They might "win" (as they love to say) some money and a flier contract?a shot?but only certifiable talent will get them further. There is no debate on that, it's simple risk/reward economics.

IMO anyway.
 
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carl ericson70

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Nov 15, 2003
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Readytogo said:
Cleef

What alarms me is the "production" of young Dominican athletes without the chance for a proper academic founding.

IS Major League Baseball encouraging a league of Dexter Manleys?

Agreed! this has been happenig in college and pro sports for many years and to put it quite frankly the powers that be use these kids(DR and u.s.) as if they're cattle or something. With little or no emphasis placed on their academic futures. Ultimately though, there's always going to be kids in poor barrios, with big dreams of playing pro sports and scouts & agents willing to sell them the dream, if they've the talent.
 

Cleef

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Feb 24, 2002
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Yes and no from my experience

carl ericson70 said:
Agreed! this has been happenig in college and pro sports for many years and to put it quite frankly the powers that be use these kids(DR and u.s.) as if they're cattle or something. With little or no emphasis placed on their academic futures. Ultimately though, there's always going to be kids in poor barrios, with big dreams of playing pro sports and scouts & agents willing to sell them the dream, if they've the talent.
Can teams (MLB) do more for the fundamental (character, education, life-skills) development?

The answer is, of course, absolutely.

However, on paper any idea sounds really good and effective in achieving success with some of these fundamental skills that need to be addressed in greater need. A closer look offers the realization that most of these kids have a 3rd grade (median) level of education, and that's a "rebuild", not a "maintenance" task.

I went to long ends to make an ESL and cultural development program stick with a few teams, but a large majority (of the ballplayers) don't have any basic cognitive abilities, and teaching them basic Spanish, and the like, is what many teams are now focusing on.

In addition, once a player is successful there is very little?if any?encouragement towards a proper education. Teams?and MLB by extension?would be more than willing to help in their development, but it takes two to tango, and once a player has legitimized himself with a long-term career (contract) the desire to assimilate into a more profound education level is obliterated. That's sad, but all too true.

Vladimir Guerrero is a perfect example.

Some teams that I know of (Red Sox) go to much greater lengths once the player has reached the states, especially in the Florida minors.

Personally, I think it should be focused more in the DR?as is the point of this discussion?to allow a greater influence on a greater number, and thereby returning something to the land that they scavenge talent from.

But, it comes down to economics, and the return on the investment is essentially nothing.

If the government wasn't so corruptable it would have made any land sale (baseball academy developments) dovetail onto an education mandate that teams in certain areas would be required to build, maintain and staff (to certain degrees) education facilities?for the regions, not just the baseball talents.

What a crazy world my mind lives in eh?
 

Tordok

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Oct 6, 2003
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Hi Cleef,
Great thread! There are no simple answers to your original post. It is quite incredible that these numbers are what they are.

IMO, in the US, baseball must compete with other established/market-savvy sports like football, basketball and lately soccer, for the attention of talented young athletes. Also with the "cool" extreme sports. In the DR, the average barrio boys don't have too many other options other than street pelota. Thus, beisbol is played with more intensity and frequency in the tropical DR than in the more distracted and cold USA.

- Tordok
GO ORIOLES!! :bandit:
 

Tordok

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Oct 6, 2003
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On the second topic of juicing-up, it is important to know what clubs and the league do and don't do, before people make judgments about whether organized baseball in the DR is being neglectful. The responsibility of MLB -or of the Dominican authorities for that matter- cannot be unlimited as seemingly expected by the NYC activist Mr. Mateo, of the ESPN story. That is just ridiculous. Under which authority can anyone dare test people for whatever, when these folks are not even in your system? How do you enforce a program when you lack jurisdiction? Education is the only tool available right now, and the league and the clubs ARE providing players with that. Under the new standards, the deterrence in the DR and eslewhere is that the truly big contracts are not signed until you show your worth in the US minors. If you get there by cheating, you'll either get caught doing it and face the consequences, or else your "talent" will dissappear and you'll get the axe anyways. Too sad that in the meantime they risk their lives to get there.

Re education: Most DR employers come nowhere near providing young people with the opportunities (NOT guarantees) that baseball offers their signed players. Most clubs do help with the non-baseball educational needs of their recruits, but clearly this is not their primary focus. They are into producing ballplayers, not into overcoming the huge basic educational shortcomings of their rookies. Just because they hired someone to play baseball does not mean they have the obligation to take over their entire lives. Also, like Cleef said, often the players refuse these non-baseball life skills training that I know many teams offer. They also routinely disregard, and more commonly worse, let their agents "handle" the other kinds of help that teams offer. Those include financial advise, clean physical training, healthy nutritional habits, ESL, how to relate to the media, counseling for personal problems and preventive mental health, how to avoid visa problems with consular affairs (like please don't lie about your age or your sudden marriage to get a woman to jump to the USA), etc.. In other words, MLB can't possibly police the entire Dominican Republic. They can - and do - offer advice, but cannot be parents and teachers to these kids.

- Tordok
(GO ORIOLES!!!)
 
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Cleef

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Feb 24, 2002
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Daydreaming

Tordok said:
Hi Cleef,
IMO, in the US, baseball must compete with other established/market-savvy sports like football, basketball and lately soccer, for the attention of talented young athletes. Also with the "cool" extreme sports. In the DR, the average barrio boys don't have too many other options other than street pelota. Thus, beisbol is played with more intensity and frequency in the tropical DR than in the more distracted and cold USA. - Trodok
It just goes to show you how important practice is. The lower class Dominican's have the time (no school, no job) the ambition (it's a way off the island) and the model (take your pick of the hundreds) to follow. So the long-term prognosis is that whatever exists today (90+ on MLB rosters) will likely double in the next decade, if not more.

If the gov't had any foresight, they'd legitimize it and make the players draft eligible?and also dovetail community development projects onto any new/existing MLB sanctioned academies.

They could also do some drug intervention/education to halt the ludicrous deaths of so many young kids who are so desperate that they revert to steroids and such.
 
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The Dominican Republic is the country who has attributed the most baseball players to the MLB only two baseball teams in the MLB do not have Dominican players and I doubt that they will stay like this for soon.
 

Cleef

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Feb 24, 2002
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News of progress, attention

Found this in the news.

Hispanics Across America (aka "HAA-HAA") are making an effort to get MLB's attention concerning steroid use in Dominican ballplayers.

One disturbing note:

Rob Manfred (baseball's executive vice president for labor relations aka "BLAA-BLAA") said baseball would increase testing this year but added, "Unfortunately, the laws in the Dominican Republic forbid us from suspending steroid violators and make the operation of an optimal program more difficult."
 
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