APAGONES can put this country upside down

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hugoke01

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I feel that more and more people are getting really mad at the government because the "apagones " aren't getting solved ..

There were already some street riots in Barahona . and others seem prepared to come out in the streets against the government if these elctricity cuts aren't solved .. Some areas only have electricity 4 hours a day ..

Only one question How could this affect the country ? Could this not result in a kind of revolution if the government doesn't take real actions to get this solved ? or should we only think about the metro ?
 
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Jos?45

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hugoke01 said:
I feel that more and more people are getting really mad at the government because the "apagones " aren't getting solved ..

There were already some street riots in Barahona . and others seem prepared to come out in the streets against the government if these elctricity cuts aren't solved .. Some areas only have electricity 4 hours a day ..

Only one question How could this affect the country ? Could this not result in a kind of revolution if the government doesn't take real actions to get this solved ? or should we only think about the metro ?
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hugoke01,

I agree that apagones can put this country upside down. The Group Millennium Hispaniola is working with the goal to change that. Look at jos?45 messages in all forum to get a taste of how to get out of the mess we are in. Try looking at the GMH blog to see our suggestions.
 
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quejeyoke

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as my cousin Vito says, fuggedaoboudit!. Apagones have and will rule the country for a long time. Most of the electrical system is not organized or policed well. The best way to counter the electricity debacle is to farm your own electric, whether by generator or by gazeelion battery inverter.
 
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fortywater

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May 4, 2005
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Nothing will be done...

but complain. When I was down there I was getting pissed at the apagones too, but everyone down there is too scared to do anything about it, so they just take it in stride. Just think of it as a reason to go to the corner colmado and get drunk.
 
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Jos?45

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Dominicans Are Just Too Scared to do Anything About it

fortywater said:
but complain. When I was down there I was getting pissed at the apagones too, but everyone down there is too scared to do anything about it, so they just take it in stride. Just think of it as a reason to go to the corner colmado and get drunk.
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I just copy the message to the GMH blog. Thanks fortywater.
 
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Escott

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Sheesh, when Hippo was in office and ruining the country for the next 4 generations all you guys did was burn a few stankin tires.

He is out of office and NOT IN JAIL. You people won't do a darn thing other than run your mouths. The only reason there are electric problems is because people make money because of it. Take away the graft and corruption in your system and you would have 24/7 electric. All you do is keep digging an endless hole by permitting it.

Escott
 
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Jos?45

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quejeyoke said:
as my cousin Vito says, fuggedaoboudit!. Apagones have and will rule the country for a long time. Most of the electrical system is not organized or policed well. The best way to counter the electricity debacle is to farm your own electric, whether by generator or by gazeelion battery inverter.
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quejeyoke: I would agree with you, were it not that the excesive individual solutions have a large market value opportunity. So large, that DR is one of the best places in the world to develop Demand Response technology. I agree that "it is not organized or policed well." That is why we need the political parties out of the electricity business. The vicious circle of individual solutions, can lead to a virtuous circle of electric retail liberalization. The NorthAmerican community can help us with their strong voice.
 
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Jos?45

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Escott said:
Sheesh, when Hippo was in office and ruining the country for the next 4 generations all you guys did was burn a few stankin tires.

He is out of office and NOT IN JAIL. You people won't do a darn thing other than run your mouths. The only reason there are electric problems is because people make money because of it. Take away the graft and corruption in your system and you would have 24/7 electric. All you do is keep digging an endless hole by permitting it.

Escott
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I have to agree with you Escott, except that most of the corruption comes from outside. Please be careful with generalization. I did not burn any stinking tires: among other things, I showed that by using taken experts, a USAID led electric power analysis and reform consensus was invalid, since it missed the input from the customers. I call that The Pending Task for a Valid Consensus in the GMH blog.
 
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Escott

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Jos?45 said:
I have to agree with you Escott, except that most of the corruption comes from outside. Please be careful with generalization. I did not burn any stinking tires: among other things, I showed that by using taken experts, a USAID led electric power analysis and reform consensus was invalid, since it missed the input from the customers. I call that The Pending Task for a Valid Consensus in the GMH blog.
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If it does come from OUTSIDE which I seriously doubt it is only because the INSIDE allows it.
 
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Jos?45

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Please Give Me the Benefit of the Doubt

Escott said:
If it does come from OUTSIDE which I seriously doubt it is only because the INSIDE allows it.
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Escott, please give the benefit of the doubt. I believe the root cause is in the political system, which was not invented here. It was invented elsewhere = OUTSIDE. I don?t think the creativity comes from here, they are just too dumb. Once done for the first time, they are very able to copied it many times. One excellent direct foreing investment example is the Union Fenosa case. Do you think all the creativity came from the dominicans?
 
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MrMike

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Sorry buddy, the DR is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. There are countries in Africa considered less corrupt.

Where is the "outside" country sooooo corrupt that a little of that corruption has spilled over into the DR and made it so corrupt? Didn't think so.

If I have rats in my house, I can generally assume they come from "outside" (or did at some point) but this does not reduce my need to erradicate them at all costs.

In this scenario, if the DR is the house, and corruption the rats, then maybe the original Adam and Eve rat came from "outside" somewhere, but that was many generations ago, and the current rats are native Dominicans born and bred. The only thing coming from outside now is a good portion of the money they are stealing, and constant complaints about the rats.
 
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Mirador

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APAGONES can put this country upside down
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Who said it was right-side up?

Where I call home (my bohio on the way to Las Lomas de Azua) we don't get APAGONES, we get ALUMBRONES, which means we get power only after paying customers in Bani and other locations have been supplied. If the 1.000 or so homes in Las Lomas and surrounding countryside were invoiced for power consumption, a rough estimate is that we would have to pay a total of about 300,000 pesos a month. Then, since all we get is 'leftover power' why should be pay? It's a vicious circle. However, no popular uprisings are forthcoming over power, maybe if the price of 'romo' is doubled...
 
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miguel

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Jul 2, 2003
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MrMike said:
Sorry buddy, the DR is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. There are countries in Africa considered less corrupt.


CORRECTOMUNDO, HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thread related:

About apagones, I will say the same thing that I said on the other "apagones" threads: I WILL NEVER GET BETTER. Well, let me rephrase that, it ill probably get better, as usual, for a few days and them BOOM, back to square one.

People, some of you need to understand that the "apagones" are a dominican way of life. It has been happening for generations and it will still be happening when my unborn great-grandkids are grandparents themselves. "They" were alive and well 32 years ago, when I was 10, and "they" were alive and well when my father, 80, was a young lad.

The only way that it will get better is if the DR gets re-discovered.
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Jos?45

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I am not My Position

MrMike said:
Sorry buddy, the DR is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. There are countries in Africa considered less corrupt.

Where is the "outside" country sooooo corrupt that a little of that corruption has spilled over into the DR and made it so corrupt? Didn't think so.

If I have rats in my house, I can generally assume they come from "outside" (or did at some point) but this does not reduce my need to erradicate them at all costs.

In this scenario, if the DR is the house, and corruption the rats, then maybe the original Adam and Eve rat came from "outside" somewhere, but that was many generations ago, and the current rats are native Dominicans born and bred. The only thing coming from outside now is a good portion of the money they are stealing, and constant complaints about the rats.
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Thank you MrMike. This is getting very interesting, as others have jump wagon. I will do my best, being outnumbered (specially timewise).

That there are countries in Africa that are less corrupt, doesn?t mean anything. That could probably be said of your country too. Corruption scandals are everywhere. I know part of your response to this, but keep reading, to make a whole answer.

Searching for the truth. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, when the EXTERNAL parties are sanctioned in their home countries. I believe that I am NOT my position. If you are right our cats won?t let me find out, since they are in total control. Give me proofs of your statement of examples of multinationals that have been fined in your country by wrong doing here to prove that Dominicans are more corrupt than your country. If that is not possible, I suggest to make an amendment to the Sarbanes-Osley Law. That would reduce corruption here and there. Thanks, again anyway.
 
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Jos?45

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Will the New Strategy of the World Bank Work?

Mirador said:
Who said it was right-side up?

Where I call home (my bohio on the way to Las Lomas de Azua) we don't get APAGONES, we get ALUMBRONES, which means we get power only after paying customers in Bani and other locations have been supplied. If the 1.000 or so homes in Las Lomas and surrounding countryside were invoiced for power consumption, a rough estimate is that we would have to pay a total of about 300,000 pesos a month. Then, since all we get is 'leftover power' why should be pay? It's a vicious circle. However, no popular uprisings are forthcoming over power, maybe if the price of 'romo' is doubled...
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Except for the romo part, I agree with you Mirador. Politicians must be ousted from power service. Decent businesses in retail marketing should replace them, so that customers have choice. Can we trust the World Bank new strategy on the power sector will get them out? ?Abajo los alumbrones!
 
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Jos?45

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Let?s Re-Discover DR

miguel said:
MrMike said:
Sorry buddy, the DR is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. There are countries in Africa considered less corrupt.


CORRECTOMUNDO, HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thread related:

About apagones, I will say the same thing that I said on the other "apagones" threads: I WILL NEVER GET BETTER. Well, let me rephrase that, it ill probably get better, as usual, for a few days and them BOOM, back to square one.

People, some of you need to understand that the "apagones" are a dominican way of life. It has been happening for generations and it will still be happening when my unborn great-grandkids are grandparents themselves. "They" were alive and well 32 years ago, when I was 10, and "they" were alive and well when my father, 80, was a young lad.

The only way that it will get better is if the DR gets re-discovered.
Click to expand...

Be positive! Help us re-discover DR. What can be done?
Click to expand...
 
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suarezn

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miguel said:
People, some of you need to understand that the "apagones" are a dominican way of life. It has been happening for generations and it will still be happening when my unborn great-grandkids are grandparents themselves. "They" were alive and well 32 years ago, when I was 10, and "they" were alive and well when my father, 80, was a young lad.

The only way that it will get better is if the DR gets re-discovered.
Click to expand...

Hey buddy: I don't think that's a correct statement. As I understand it The DR had 24X7 power when the electric company was a private american company, back in the times of Trujillo. It wasn't until Balaguer came to power and decided to "nationalize" the power company (created CDE) as well as other enterprises that things started going south. Even now I firmly believe that if this was completely privatized (not a half assed privatization like they did during Leonel) this problem would be solved.

As an example, I understand that out east (bavaro area) electricity is handled by a private company. Guess what? They have power 24X7 and people pay for their service. Why cant' we just help this company or similar ones expand their areas of operation. How come they can do it and others can't?

The government just needs to butt out of this and just provide the legal framework and enforce the laws...But do you think that will happen any time soon? Not a chance. Too many people making money from this. Too many people who if these companies were completely privatized would start striking because we're selling "our companies and compromising our sovereignty..." what load of BS!!!
 
J

Jos?45

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Jun 1, 2005
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Mixed Mesage

suarezn said:
Hey buddy: I don't think that's a correct statement. As I understand it The DR had 24X7 power when the electric company was a private american company, back in the times of Trujillo. It wasn't until Balaguer came to power and decided to "nationalize" the power company (created CDE) as well as other enterprises that things started going south. Even now I firmly believe that if this was completely privatized (not a half assed privatization like they did during Leonel) this problem would be solved.

As an example, I understand that out east (bavaro area) electricity is handled by a private company. Guess what? They have power 24X7 and people pay for their service. Why cant' we just help this company or similar ones expand their areas of operation. How come they can do it and others can't?

The government just needs to butt out of this and just provide the legal framework and enforce the laws...But do you think that will happen any time soon? Not a chance. Too many people making money from this. Too many people who if these companies were completely privatized would start striking because we're selling "our companies and compromising our sovereignty..." what load of BS!!!
Click to expand...

Those are interesting remarks. A small correction on history. It was Trujullo who nationalized the electricity business in 1956, when he created CDE. The case of Bavaro and other places like Romana is different, because the number of votes is relativeley small.

I have to agree with you that a solution is possible, but it requires a tall order. Let customers purchase electricity freely from competitive retailers. Which is the same as get the politicians out of the business. Mine might also be a mixed message.
 
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