- Thread starter WINSTRIC
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DR-CAFTA: What does everybody think?
Excellent, right?!?! When do we begin freely sending sugar and avocados to the US?
Pardon my scepticism, but I thought "free trade" meant "free trade".
Pardon my scepticism, but I thought "free trade" meant "free trade".
Well, it passed, by two votes. I don't see overwhelming support from the US side for this free trade agreement.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/12241365.htm
and Yes.. What about those advocados? Are they busy going to rot or will DR-Cafta save them? And the further question, will DR-Cafta be ratified here in the DR? There is one more step to take right here on our home ground.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/12241365.htm
and Yes.. What about those advocados? Are they busy going to rot or will DR-Cafta save them? And the further question, will DR-Cafta be ratified here in the DR? There is one more step to take right here on our home ground.
Those small countries will not be able to compete with the mega american companies. There will be American monopolies all over those countries. It will be better for American business but hell for small businesses in those
countries. Their marketing would not make a dent on American soil.
Walmart is licking their chops.
countries. Their marketing would not make a dent on American soil.
Walmart is licking their chops.
I think the question is more whether mega companies in the US will buy DR product? or utilize DR labor force. I know the US (Walmart type businesses etc) sees us and the other Cafta countries as possible new markets for them. This is clear... and this agreement should remove some of the barriers to trade from the US side to the Cafta countries. But still, question is whether the US will buy DR product in a fair and 'free trade type' manner?
And the further question is whether the DR will let go of their trade barriers? Will it be easier to import product? to export product? without a line of people with their hands out to receive payment?
And the further question is whether the DR will let go of their trade barriers? Will it be easier to import product? to export product? without a line of people with their hands out to receive payment?
sancochojoe said:
.........without a line of people with their hands out to receive payment?.........
...........never happen in the DR, and the benefits of this agreement will NEVER reach the Dominican consumer...............and they have noone to blame but themselves.....
...........never happen in the DR, and the benefits of this agreement will NEVER reach the Dominican consumer...............and they have noone to blame but themselves.....
Yeah too bad we cant send Cocaine there also. Boy would that make the DR prosperous!Porfio_Rubirosa said:
Cocaine will be manufactured, bought and sold as long as there are buyers, sellers and users.
I think we're more concerned about avocados and sugar and corn syrup substitutes and trade barriers and such stuff here --- The forces of globalization has a hand in this as well.
Personally, I'm concerned about the process of actually doing stuff under DR-Cafta. I've read the agreements (took a while) and side-agreements a number of times, but still cannot figure how this thing is actually going to happen. Somehow I cannot see myself pitching up at aduana with a Cafta agreement in my hand, and asking for the paperwork to, for example, send this thing/receive this thing with no taxation, as agreed to between the countries. I think I'll be at aduana for at least a few months while they figure out how to get money from me...
and no-one will know how to do either of the two things... get money, or send or receive goods!
I think we're more concerned about avocados and sugar and corn syrup substitutes and trade barriers and such stuff here --- The forces of globalization has a hand in this as well.
Personally, I'm concerned about the process of actually doing stuff under DR-Cafta. I've read the agreements (took a while) and side-agreements a number of times, but still cannot figure how this thing is actually going to happen. Somehow I cannot see myself pitching up at aduana with a Cafta agreement in my hand, and asking for the paperwork to, for example, send this thing/receive this thing with no taxation, as agreed to between the countries. I think I'll be at aduana for at least a few months while they figure out how to get money from me...
and no-one will know how to do either of the two things... get money, or send or receive goods!The winners are the consumers in wealthy countries. I cannot get over the decent-but-dirt-cheap products on sale in Europe, all coming from China and other cheap labour economies like the DR.
In contrast the DR gets all the cheap and nasty products which are not even sold that cheap, especially in relation to the average Dominican income, or average to good stuff that only a small minority can afford.
In Spain you can buy usb memory sticks and webcams for as little as 12 euros, much nicer clothes than you can find in the DR at far lower prices, and food shopping bills are much lower! Yesterday I bought a litre bottle of mineral water for 0.21 euros: one pays about 1 euro for the same thing in the DR. This is not an isolated example.
There are many case studies of the plight of weaker economies who have been subjected to so-called free trade. Haiti is perhaps an extreme case, but Dominican farmers face a similar fate to their Haitian counterparts. Once the local producers are wiped out by the cheaper food imports, who is to stop the retailers from readjusting the price to the consumer, so that in effect no one wins but the exporters?
In contrast the DR gets all the cheap and nasty products which are not even sold that cheap, especially in relation to the average Dominican income, or average to good stuff that only a small minority can afford.
In Spain you can buy usb memory sticks and webcams for as little as 12 euros, much nicer clothes than you can find in the DR at far lower prices, and food shopping bills are much lower! Yesterday I bought a litre bottle of mineral water for 0.21 euros: one pays about 1 euro for the same thing in the DR. This is not an isolated example.
There are many case studies of the plight of weaker economies who have been subjected to so-called free trade. Haiti is perhaps an extreme case, but Dominican farmers face a similar fate to their Haitian counterparts. Once the local producers are wiped out by the cheaper food imports, who is to stop the retailers from readjusting the price to the consumer, so that in effect no one wins but the exporters?
It is hard to listen to what you say. You are bent against the US in every possible way and in every conversation. This is the first time that you have put the blame on the DR but I am sure that will be short lived and you will go back on the US offensive.Chris said:Cocaine will be manufactured, bought and sold as long as there are buyers, sellers and users.
I think we're more concerned about avocados and sugar and corn syrup substitutes and trade barriers and such stuff here --- The forces of globalization has a hand in this as well.
Personally, I'm concerned about the process of actually doing stuff under DR-Cafta. I've read the agreements (took a while) and side-agreements a number of times, but still cannot figure how this thing is actually going to happen. Somehow I cannot see myself pitching up at aduana with a Cafta agreement in my hand, and asking for the paperwork to, for example, send this thing/receive this thing with no taxation, as agreed to between the countries. I think I'll be at aduana for at least a few months while they figure out how to get money from me...
That being said I guess you have no expectations of the DR getting out of the DARK AGES any time soon?
Escott said:
The good news is that you don't have to listen to me Scott. I have no idea how you can say, and continue saying, what you are saying anyway. Having a realistic view, with experience both sides of the fence, is certainly not 'bent'. And I can think of many more that are more 'bent' than I.
Anyways, if it is easier to listen to Chiri, let me quote her...
"There are many case studies of the plight of weaker economies who have been subjected to so-called free trade. "
This conversation is not about the US per se.. goodness gracious... It is a little bigger than that... It is about weaker economies that have free trade agreements with stronger economies without measures in place to protect the weaker economy. It is about the DR's inherent ability/inability to work within this free trade agreement, if it indeed works out to be a 'free trade' agreement - many of us question this. It is about the protections that should be there for the weaker economies. It is speculation in terms of what the future will bring for the DR, with this agreement in place.
And I for one am very interested in how this works out. It could have a material effect on our business.
I'll say again, I'm more for 'fair trade' than 'free trade'...to level the playing field, which is not to say that free trade in its essence is a bad thing.
Let me quote Chiri again: "Once the local producers are wiped out by the cheaper food imports, who is to stop the retailers from readjusting the price to the consumer, so that in effect no one wins but the exporters?"
Forgot to say... this should probably go to debates?
M
Mr.Mark
Guest
Out on the wires just now. Two opposing views... First is from Oxfam calling it a bad trade agreement and the second is from the United States Council for International Business, calling it good. There is very wide divergence of opinion on this one...
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=50998
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050728/nyth102.html?.v=19
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=50998
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050728/nyth102.html?.v=19
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Chris said:
Just the first paragraph of the second article made me want to throw up.
The writer is specific on the agenda for the US
by saying that it would presents major new opportunities for US exports of goods and services
Yet very vague on how it would help other companies, except provide a "much-needed boost" in terms of transitioning to democratic rule.
Basically allow our country a great capitalist opportunity for our businesses in exchange for helping you strengthen your democracy.
Thats is a bunch of crap and an insult. This is not an equal exchange. The US doesn't care about strengthening foreign businesses in this agreement. They don't care about foreign imports.
I think Chiri/Oxfam hit the nail on the head. Ironically, most of you commenting on this will end up ahead because prices of consumer goods - particularly foodstuffs, will go down. If you have dollars or euros or are living or remittances, you're golden.
No, it's those who actually make their livings FROM the DR that I'm concerned about. At most, CAFTA will open up some niche agriculture export opportunities. Everyone else will face stiff, often overtly or covertly subsidized, competition from goods imported from the US.
I mean, come on! As I understand it, CAFTA keeps DR cane sugar out of the USA and requires the DR to open up to US sugarbeets. How is this free trade?
It's also kind of interesting to think that the DR may be forced to go directly from pre-industrial to post-industrial/service without having ever developed export industries. But I'm sure that CAFTA will put the last nail in the coffin of many industries that Hippo didn't already kill.
One thing's for sure, if after all Bush did to get this sucker passed some of these little countries don't sign it, he's sending destroyers to our coasts and nuking Hugo Chavez!
No, it's those who actually make their livings FROM the DR that I'm concerned about. At most, CAFTA will open up some niche agriculture export opportunities. Everyone else will face stiff, often overtly or covertly subsidized, competition from goods imported from the US.
I mean, come on! As I understand it, CAFTA keeps DR cane sugar out of the USA and requires the DR to open up to US sugarbeets. How is this free trade?
It's also kind of interesting to think that the DR may be forced to go directly from pre-industrial to post-industrial/service without having ever developed export industries. But I'm sure that CAFTA will put the last nail in the coffin of many industries that Hippo didn't already kill.
One thing's for sure, if after all Bush did to get this sucker passed some of these little countries don't sign it, he's sending destroyers to our coasts and nuking Hugo Chavez!
The Responsibility ofGovernment Of ANY Country Is To Do What Is BEST For It's People!
Unfortunately,that is not the case in the DR,and many other countries where corruption comes first and the People a distant last!
Now,"Free Trade" in a pure form will "One Day" be the salvation of the World! It is not self-serving to kill the people in a country who are buying your cars,and selling you their oil! It's not nice to kill your trading partners!
This does not happen overnight! Remember that after WWII Japan had "cheap labor" and produce Poor Quality goods at cheap prices.How things have changed.Japan now produces high quality goods,manufactured in California and Mississippi.Japan manufactures in many countries throughout south east asia,because "labor" in Japon is too expensive.Look what trade has done for the benefit of Japan.It takes time,maybe 50 to 100 years for a world wide balance of trade to be reached.Some countries may NEVER be a part of that "Balance".The rest of the World must be responsible for their wellbeing until they reach that balance.
If Dominican avacados can't compete in the US or Europen marketplace,so be it! The problem with the agricultural product in the DR is inefficiancy.Labor is cheap,but inefficiant.Cost of "Fuel" is high.Cost of fertilizer is high,distribution is high cost AND inefficient! To many pieces taken from the pie before it ever reaches the consumer.Be that consumer be in the DR,or offshore.In the world of global free trade,you must offer a unique product,better product,a cheaper product,just in time delivery,add value,or a combination of the above.Everyone has a chance to compete.Let the "Better" country win!The consumers will be "Winners" also!
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Unfortunately,that is not the case in the DR,and many other countries where corruption comes first and the People a distant last!
Now,"Free Trade" in a pure form will "One Day" be the salvation of the World! It is not self-serving to kill the people in a country who are buying your cars,and selling you their oil! It's not nice to kill your trading partners!
This does not happen overnight! Remember that after WWII Japan had "cheap labor" and produce Poor Quality goods at cheap prices.How things have changed.Japan now produces high quality goods,manufactured in California and Mississippi.Japan manufactures in many countries throughout south east asia,because "labor" in Japon is too expensive.Look what trade has done for the benefit of Japan.It takes time,maybe 50 to 100 years for a world wide balance of trade to be reached.Some countries may NEVER be a part of that "Balance".The rest of the World must be responsible for their wellbeing until they reach that balance.
If Dominican avacados can't compete in the US or Europen marketplace,so be it! The problem with the agricultural product in the DR is inefficiancy.Labor is cheap,but inefficiant.Cost of "Fuel" is high.Cost of fertilizer is high,distribution is high cost AND inefficient! To many pieces taken from the pie before it ever reaches the consumer.Be that consumer be in the DR,or offshore.In the world of global free trade,you must offer a unique product,better product,a cheaper product,just in time delivery,add value,or a combination of the above.Everyone has a chance to compete.Let the "Better" country win!The consumers will be "Winners" also!
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Criss Colon said:
Professor Hillbilly, are you going to weigh in? Give us your two pesos. How will CAFTA impact the agricultural and Judo sectors of the DR?
Scandall
Right! I, I, I think, we're in agreement. But I'm not sure. Bush pushed CAFTA through Congress saying that it was necessary for peace and security in our hemisphere to have an economically stable and growing Central America. Reduces illegal immigration to the US and makes radicalization of these countries less likely, don't you know.Criss Colon said:
Now I'm not exactly sure to whom this might come as a suprise, but it was all a lie.
No, this trade deal is a one-sided exploit quick scheme. The only ones in favor were US exporters. US Importers seemed indifferent. So, you see, we're not really talking about building up Central American economies to be good trading partners. We're not talking about effective steps to reduce immigration or stabilize the region. No, rather, we're talking about cheaper Swanson Hungry Man TV Dinners at you local Supermercado Nacional.
Do you think the Central American Free Trade Agreement should be approved or rejected by Congress?
Approved 6% 456 votes
Rejected 94% 7236 votes
CNN- QUICKVOTE POLL
I wonder why some of our own journalist haven't carried out a similar poll in the DR ;-)
Approved 6% 456 votes
Rejected 94% 7236 votes
CNN- QUICKVOTE POLL
I wonder why some of our own journalist haven't carried out a similar poll in the DR ;-)