BIEN DICHO (el Nuevo Herald)

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Marianopolita

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I discovered this section recently in el Nuevo Herald (a daily Spanish newspaper of Miami). After following the tips daily I thought it would be good for anyone who is interested in grammar at an advanced level. The focus so far has been on correct grammar and an analysis is given of everyday errors in the spoken language with an explanation and correction. One of tips could be used to start a thread (one never knows).

Click here for a sample and go to the section titled 'Trasfondo'.

http://www.miami.com/mld/elnuevo/


LDG.
 

Marianopolita

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Calque (loan translation)

I know that this link I referenced is for those who have a solid understanding of Spanish grammar as it points out the flaws made by those who speak and write Spanish. Ever since I started reading this section Trastorno in the Miami Herald it has proven to be an accurate grammar resource indeed that points out errors often made in Spanish at all levels.

I was really pleased to see this information in the September 27, 2005 edition that addresses 'calques' also known as 'loan translations' a topic that I have studied extensively. This aspect of grammar requires much attention as Spanish continues to be challenged with respect to the English language especially in places where the two languages coexist. The USA is a prime example. Some linguists already consider Spanish spoken in the USA a dialect and the RAE (La Real Academia Española) and its respective governing bodies in various Latin American countries are challenged to keep pace with new words and 'calques' ('loan translations') derived from English. Although many are used in the spoken language it takes years of analysis and study before (and if) the words are approved by the RAE and added to renowned dictionaries.

Here is the piece from Trastorno on September 27, 2005.

Coincidimos con el Sr. José H. Bailez respecto a que es hasta cierto punto lógico y excusable que en nuestra ciudad, Miami, se cometan ciertos errores producto de la constante traducción al español de expresiones en inglés.

Ello se debe fundamentalmente a que, en esencia, lo más importante es la comunicación entre personas cuya lengua principal no es siempre la misma.

Por otro lado, también opinamos que a quienes hablamos español como lengua madre nos toca señalar con tino esos errores para beneficio de todos.

Así pues, siguiendo este precepto, nos hacemos eco de nuestro amigo, quien nos indica un error que encontramos con frecuencia en letreros que advierten sobre posibles riesgos o peligros, al 'calcarse' la expresión inglesa use caution.

No es propia de nuestra lengua la expresión 'use cautela'.

Su equivalente es en realidad 'tenga cuidado'.


--------------------------------------------

What is being discussed is the English phrase 'use caution'. In Miami signs have the Spanish translation as use cautela which is a calque or a literal translation from English to Spanish which results in an incorrect translation. The equivalent Spanish expression is tenga cuidado.

There are many examples of 'calques' used in Spanish which are a literal translation of English phrases but do not retain their meaning or are not a semantic form of the Spanish language and usually are understood only by people who speak both languages. Literal translations from source language to target language may or may not have translation loss however, loan phrases continue to bombard the Spanish language originating from English.

Definition of 'loan translation':

'A form of borrowing from one language to another whereby the semantic components of a given term are literally translated into their equivalents in the borrowing language'.

Some common loan translations or 'calques' are:

Dejar saber (to let someone know).
Ganar peso (gain weight)
Tomar efecto (to take effect)

-there are many more examples of 'calques' used instead of the academic standard Spanish equivalent.

Lexical variants and calques have come into the language over the past decade (and longer) which are now used in the USA as opposed to the traditional academic equivalents but not all words have been accepted by the RAE to date.


LDG.
 
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Chirimoya

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some others

llamar p'atras - call back
poner peso - put on weight

- and in reverse, Spanish to English

stay pregnant - quedar embarazada
 

Marianopolita

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Chirimoya

Those are great examples Chiri especially llamar p’atrás, which has just become a norm in the US and possibly now in some Spanish speaking countries. That 'calque' is a perfect example of how the correct academic phrase volver a llamar is used by those who choose not to use a 'loan translation' that makes no sense- like me. There are other examples of 'back' calques, which are literal translations of English phrases.

There are some 'loan translations' that have been accepted by the RAE (many years ago) such as perro caliente which is a literal translation of the English 'hot dog' but llamar p’atrás is still a colloquial calque that originated in the USA. I have been to Miami and New York countless times and there is no denying that academic Spanish is spoken mostly by Spanish speakers who don’t speak English and by those who are conscious of the incorrect usage of loan translations.

The reverse example of a Spanish to English loan translation is interesting. Unfortunately, I don’t know many Spanish ---> English calques. If you have any more examples please kindly add them.

I will provide some more examples later on.

LDG.
 
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Marianopolita

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No it has not....

Hopefully this section will allow them to critique their own errors.

LDG.

PD. This is not about Spanglish it's about 'calque' or loan translations which is not the same.

Pib said:
Has the irony of a newspaper called El Nuevo Herald, and which runs articles on Spanglish escaped you?
 
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Stodgord

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How about apartament. Many people say apartamento (including me) and it should be departmento.
 

qgrande

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Stodgord said:
How about apartament. Many people say apartamento (including me) and it should be departmento.

Departamento is South-American Spanish, but apartamento is correct Spanish (Espa?a) Spanish. So not necessarily a loan from English, or a loan at all.
 

Stodgord

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qgrande said:
Departamento is South-American Spanish, but apartamento is correct Spanish (Espa?a) Spanish. So not necessarily a loan from English, or a loan at all.

Thanks. Well I guess I was not saying it wrong after all.
 

Chirimoya

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qgrande said:
Departamento is South-American Spanish, but apartamento is correct Spanish (España) Spanish. So not necessarily a loan from English, or a loan at all.

Departamento is used mainly in Argentina and Mexico, apartamento is most of the rest of Latin America. Spaniards say 'piso' although 'apartamento' is understood.

A bit like 'flat' in the UK. You can say apartment as well but it is considered an Americanism.
 

andrea9k

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There is no such word in spanish... "calque" or "calques"... you mean "calco"?

A "calco" is something that has been copied from other source.

Calcar is a verb, but its use is not that common. I would say its use is limited to the act of copying something (like a drawing) by placing a semi transparent paper to draw lines over the original... or by pressing the pencil strongly to mark a paper below...

You would say your kids/students "No copies" - Do not copy (stuff from others) instead of No "calques"... unless you mean what is stated in the paragraph above.

Chiri: in Peru we also use "departamento" instead of apartamento. We refer to an apartment as a "depa" when we want to screw the language.

Jess
 

Marianopolita

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Andrea9k

In English it's called a 'calque' and it's used by grammarians as such in English.

I don't believe I said it was 'calque' in Spanish in any of my posts. If I did that was not my intent. I used the English term throughout.

LDG.
 

andrea9k

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Lesley D said:
In English it's called a 'calque' and it's used by grammarians as such in English.

I don't believe I said it was 'calque' in Spanish in any of my posts. If I did that was not my intent. I used the English term throughout.

LDG.

Sorry the misinterpretation. I didn't know an english word needed to be quoted and translated in an english text. ;)

Jess
 

Chirimoya

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andrea9k said:
Chiri: in Peru we also use "departamento" instead of apartamento. We refer to an apartment as a "depa" when we want to screw the language.

Jess

That's why I said 'mainly' in Argentina and Mexico. I knew I had heard it somewhere else but wasn't sure where. :)

Is it in Peru that they say 'chompa' for sweater (as in jumper)?
 

Chirimoya

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From dictionary.com
2 entries found for calque.

calque See loan translation.

[French, from calquer, to trace, copy, from Italian calcare, to press, from Latin calcre, to tread on, from calx, heel.]

calque

n : an expression introduced into one language by translating it from another language [syn: loan translation]

I have to say I also assumed it was a Spanish word: it just sounded that way. Now that I see how it is related to French and Italian words, it makes more sense.
 

Marianopolita

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Interesting...

You see I could not understand what Andrea9k was talking about in her comment to me because I speak French so I never questioned the origin of the word. As well having studied word origins the ending 'que' is not Spanish so I really was trying to understand what was being questioned. This is all part linguistics BTW thus a different way of looking at languages.

Merci beaucoup!

LDG.

PD. Not to go off topic but words like azúcar, almohada, ojalá are not original Spanish words and the endings are the indicators in most cases. Same with cal[que].

Chirimoya said:
From dictionary.com


I have to say I also assumed it was a Spanish word: it just sounded that way. Now that I see how it is related to French and Italian words, it makes more sense.
 
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hugoke01

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Calque

Just for your information :

A " loan translation " is also a calque .. originally German "Lehn?bersetzung" .
 

Stodgord

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English qualque from Spanish

Blue-blood= Sangre Azul
The moment of truth= El momento de la verdad.
 

Stodgord

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andrea9k said:
There is no such word in spanish... "calque" or "calques"... you mean "calco"?

A "calco" is something that has been copied from other source.

Calcar is a verb, but its use is not that common. I would say its use is limited to the act of copying something (like a drawing) by placing a semi transparent paper to draw lines over the original... or by pressing the pencil strongly to mark a paper below...

You would say your kids/students "No copies" - Do not copy (stuff from others) instead of No "calques"... unless you mean what is stated in the paragraph above.

Chiri: in Peru we also use "departamento" instead of apartamento. We refer to an apartment as a "depa" when we want to screw the language.

Jess

I guess this is where the word "calcomania" comes from. I remember hearing the verb "calquear" when I wanted to trace objects of a cover.
 

Quisqueya

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Lesley D,

Very interesting topic... I just have a few questions and comments..

Loan translating is inevitable when one is bi-lingual or expose to other languages. It appears most people commit this act w/o realizing it. Now when does one draw the line? Do you think that if "loan translators" are abused too much the orginal language will eventually become a creole? Most qu?b?cois(e) are notorious for loan translating as well as the hispanic in the USA...

For example, I think it's acceptable but to me it still sound funny and to make it worse most hispanohablantes believe this is the ONLY word for 'computadora' instead of the correct word 'ordenador'.
 
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