Buying Land without a title

I would never buy land that does not have a title.
Without the title you can never know who the real owner is, and it is not you if you don?t have it, contract or no contract.'
Be careful.

Of course they are telling you this is common.
I guess they are all getting a piece of YOUR cash.

Sorry, but in my opinion, only a complete fool would buy property here without a clear title.

Be very careful

Cronin_Andrea said:

They say this is a common way of buying and selling land. Anyone hear of this before or buy this way?

Thanks in advance.

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Yes, it is common for ground that is government owned and has never before been titled. I am not an expert on the process but we have done this twice. Because it is common, it is not by definition a safe transaction however. Some years ago in Azua, the government titled the lands there and everyone who laid claim to a piece of land, had to prove that they occupied the land, and that there are no other claims to the land. I do not know whether this is common in all cases, but in that case, the person with right of use could not claim more than 10 tareas. The document that is then issued is called a Certification from the Instituto Agrario Dominicana, and this document describes the land and also certifies who the 'occupier' is of the land. We also have a permission to construct on the land that we bought. When the Government gets around to doing the paperwork to title the land, this occupier should then receive title. This is not a deslinde, and the delinde process must then also be done.

In our case, we are working with the local land owner's association, who has been petitioning the government to hand over the titles, according to some prescribed procedure that seemed very strange to me. However, they have now received the authority to go ahead and finally do the paperwork for title (not more than 10 tareas per occupier). So, we have our certificacion and the title will be forthcoming as the paperwork is being done. Working with the local association has been a lesson in 'communal' thinking and my Presidente drinking skills have vastly improved...

I must tell you up front that when we decided to buy this, our attorney just about disowned us and really did not want to know.. But we felt that our community roots in the area were strong enough at the time, to risk this crazy process. We also were not investing anything that we would be materially hurt if we lost the money. We also have not done any improvements besides a fence and some fruit trees.

I don't gamble (in casino's that is). But this was a gamble and only because certain community relationships were in place, did we decide to do it.

To summarise,
- The process of titling the land had already been started and the results at that time were positive,
- We were an accepted part of the community and dues-paying members of the local association that was spearheading the titling of the land,
- This association was well founded with local land occupiers and they were committed to the process,
- We could bring in attorneys that knew the process of receiving titles and in that way, assist the local association and look after ourselves,
- It was clear that we could, with very little trouble and with community support, receive the certification of occupancy.
- There was no other way to purchase land in the area.

For us, it is paying off. But, I would hesitate to do it again and I will certainly never tell anyone that this is either a comfortable, or a safe process.

foolish, foolish, foolish

Robert said:

Of course they are telling you this is common.
I guess they are all getting a piece of YOUR cash.

Sorry, but in my opinion, only a complete fool would buy property here without a clear title.

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You would be very foolish to buy land ANYWHERE without a clear title. Clear titles are not as common here as other places and this is one of several reasons why I personally have no interest in the local real estate market. The advice is to stay away from transactions without titles.

As a guideline, you can use mortgage lender rules. For example, there are strict title search and title insurance requirements. Banks have a tendency to want to protect their money.

My last glimmer of interest in real estate investments in this country flickered out after I did some preliminary research into title insurance. I decided that I am more risk-averse than I previously knew.

Cronin_Andrea said:

Thanks for the responses. We spoke to a family lawyer who is well regarded in Santiago for an extra bit of comfort. That combined with the fact that my wife's family has known these people for the 15 years they have owned and lived on the land in Isabella we are going ahead with it.

My In-laws have lived in Isabella for 5 years now, it really is a very small "campo" like town. No one there has title although it is our understanding that we can get title on the land after purchase with considerable amount of time and pesos. Its the pesos part that causes the residents not to title their land.

Mike

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Are you talking about La Isabella on the road to Punta Rucia? Or is there another one?

Cronin_Andrea said:

Yes exactly. It is the place where Columbus erected the island's first Catholic Church etc. Know it?

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Yes, I do. It is simply lovely out there.... Good Luck - most of us on the board consider buying without title just absolutely crazy... (Even though we've done just that, I still think we're crazy). Just make very sure that you have the history of the land documented very very well and that the documentation holds up - and that there are no prior claims on the land from other family, children, uncles, nieces, nephews, relatives of dead relatives or whoever. Otherwise just about anyone can make a claim and then the one with the most pesos/influence wins. Also, if possible, do not make any improvements before you have the title sorted. (My attorney is going to kill me for this! - The politically correct thing and best practice is to say Don't Do It!)

Your Post Reminds Me Of The Posts In The "Mars/Venus/Sankie Forum!!!

They all start out,"I met this guy on the "Animation Team" at the "Hotel Gordas Y Feas Solitas".He says he has no other "Girlfriends". Do you think I should marry him??"
The "Ugly Fat girl" is looking for "Us" to give her the "OK" to go ahead with a "Risky", at best, transaction! You are going to go ahead,you just want "support" to do something you know is not a good idea!

The "Land" in question may have changed hands many times.You as the last "owner" are responsible for ALL the transfer taxes that have not been paid to the government.

About 6 years ago,I was ready to buy about 80 tareas of land in "Moca". The son owned 20,and the mother the remainder.He said the same thing that you are hearing,"That is the way we do it around here!" "Always have,always will"! I got a lawyer from that area to search the "title". He also said the same thing."That IS how "they do it" in the "Campo". He added,that I would be responsible for the transfer taxes that had accumulated,as well as any "other" claims against the property.Like sons and daughters of the mother who want the land after she dies!...So go ahead,that is what you want to do anyway.Just let us know after the house is built,and the "Relatives" :bandit: get in line to take the land back!!
If you want to take the time and effort,there are more posts from "Foreigners" who made the mistake of buying realestate without "Clear Title" (which is an "OXYMORON" in the DR anyway!)

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And reading another post today be careful you don't come to visit your property and discover there is a mausoleum built upon it.

land without a title

Once I was on the point of buying a house on a 4000 sq-mtrs piece of land in Boca Chica ..until I found out that the land still belonged to the government .. I could have bougth the house from the owner and then the land from teh government ..I didn't do so ; too complex and too risky according to my lawyer..Government has in the past sold lots of land to funcionarios for almost nothing . About 10 pesos per sq.mtr,and the land was along the seaside .. but these people would still have a title ,,This looks like there was a verbal (???) agreement ..what's the value of a verbal agreement ??So believe you will have to buy the land from the government .. /SIZE]

Cronin_Andrea said:

My wife and I are about to buy a small peice of land in La Isabella to build on and potentially live in part time. We have bought land before in DR, all has been in Santiago and all have come with title. So this is new ground for us. This peice of land from what I understand, was given to the original owners by the govt by virtue of their living on the land. They then sold it via contract to the current owners who are planning on selling it to us the same way.

The sellers are recommended people but not "friends" of my wife's family and the lawyer making the contract is also family. They say this is a common way of buying and selling land. Anyone hear of this before or buy this way?

Thanks in advance.

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ricktoronto said:

And reading another post today be careful you don't come to visit your property and discover there is a mausoleum built upon it.

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After Chiri's post nothing is certain any longer...

Ay Dios mio!!

Cronin_Andrea said:

After the story in Chiri's post I feel pretty comfortable with the transaction in general. Title doesn't mean a whole mouse nut of difference if the wrong person with the right pesos or connections wants what you have. It is not enough to hurt me if all goes to pot (we are only talking about two tereas)and sooo nice its worth the chance(a two story house gets me a clear view of the bay there). I have enough security points on the DR side to make me feel ok about spending.

It so "life in DR". During my investigation process, my mother in-law told a story of how they sometimes see helicopters flying over Isabella. She said that those are the crooks flying the "blanquitos" around to show them the land they are going to buy. In reality they are buying some garbage land 100 miles away but paying beachfront prices based on what they "saw".

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Let me call my friend Ramon, in SD, so he can tell me the story, again, about his father's purchase of a piece of land that had no tittle but it was SOOOO nice and only a few "tareas".

I will post again in about two hours and then maybe you can see for yourself how stupid your idea sounds!!!!!!.

Cronin_Andrea said:

It so "life in DR". During my investigation process, my mother in-law told a story of how they sometimes see helicopters flying over Isabella. She said that those are the crooks flying the "blanquitos" around to show them the land they are going to buy. In reality they are buying some garbage land 100 miles away but paying beachfront prices based on what they "saw".

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That's so funny. First you have to been seen as a person and not as a blanquito... This is something that many folks don't get. But before y'all jump all over me.. If our two property deals fail, I promise that I will faithfully report it here (without crying and without hurting) and you will all have the opportunity to say--- HEHE! I Told you So!. So, if you just wait a while, you'll get your chance.... I'm sure there is dire failure in my future.... Read All About It, but not before it happens....

Correct me if I'm wrong but a plot in a cemetary is a little different than a piece of land which should include a land title.

I would suggest that you contact Mr. Guzman. He will set you straight. He may not get to this thread till the weekend but here is the link.

http://www.drlawyer.com/

In the mean time read this on buying property in the DR

http://dr1.com/legal/realestate/buying.shtml

Anna Coniglio said:

I would suggest that you contact Mr. Guzman. He will set you straight.

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Anna, Mr Guzman and his able team of lawyers have been our lawyers since we came to the DR. They have loved us, hated us, cried with us (in the Supermercado over the food baskets, it was quite a scene), fired us, and generally worked with us on whatever we decided to do. These are an excellent group of lawyers and we will use them as our council as long as we are here. In our case, in terms of property title, they've fired us For us, there is not enough money on the table to stress. So, if it works, it works, if it does not work, it is as much as I would have spent on a weekend gambling (and I've never spent a weekend gambling)....

The fact is that there are large areas of this island where the land is not titled, ie., held in the ownership of the goverment...