I remember Leonel saying he was going to end corruption in this country during the election. What has happened with all the court cases regarding plan renove, the green house scandal, the housing authority selling apartments? There are a few other cases but these are just a few off the top of my head. Does anyone know whats happening or the same thing as always... Give the fiddler a few dollars and your off the hook.
- Thread starter cr8tions
- Start date
What is happening with corruption?
rhis is what each political Party claims when the opposition is in power. Once they are in they do the same behavior, this is the reason things never change.l
What's happening? Unfortunately, disappointingly, the same as with every Dominican government administration on this subject -- lots of talk and posturing, little concrete action. :tired: Certainly no signs of going after the big fish from the prior administration, and disturbingly, not enough signs of disciplines and safeguards being put into place to minimize (notice I did not say stop, since I doubt stopping it altogether is possible in the DR until at least a generational change occurs) corruption in the current administration... :ermm:
business as usual. No difference except that Leonel is Hippo with Hair. He won't prosecute so he wont get prosecuted himself is my guess.
Shame on this country and too bad for the people.
Shame on this country and too bad for the people.
cr8tions said:
While Leonel has good intentions, he is basically surrounded by people who got to their positions as 'political' rewards for raising campaign money or making other political contributions - and these are the scumbags using their power to collect bribes and kickbacks.
Conchman said:
In addition to their corrupting ways, a great damage to the country is caused by their incompetence, their inability to grasp the issues and come up with creative solutions... and once they realize their mediocrity, they will go to no ends to hide it by creating obstacles to the participation of those more capable than themselves.
Its good to see some people understand what is actually going on!Conchman said:
To be fair to Hipolito (btw, I am not and never will be a PRD. I would prefer the communist party over them), the guy actually had good intentions when he started his administrative years.
However, something happen between then and 2004 that corrupted him. Many of those around him were corrupt, but Hipolito had good intentions, that were lost in personal ambitions.
The only person of the Hipolito clan that I still have some hope for is Doña Ortiz Bosch, who seems to be the only one of the PRD who makes sense.
With Leonel, well, you got a congress that is still dominated by non-PLD members (mostly corrupted PRD). This is in addition to certain corrupt people who make themselves owners of what is not theirs.
There are times when I look at Leonel with some pity, because he has tremendous hopes for this country but I see quite a number of people whose actions will, at the very least, cause much trouble for such things to occur.
I'm still positive on the nation and its outlook, but it's a "positiveness" based on reality and on a precariously thin rope.
I do have to say, the country is better with Leonel than without.
Mi dos centavos,
-NAL
PS. All it takes is one meeting with Leonel and you can feel his hopeful feelings towards the country, though the current factors (mostly external such as the increasing rate of petroleum among other things) are giving him quite a beaten down on his spirit. On those lines, he is an admirable person.
Now, if we could find another person who has those qualities plus the quality of knocking down corruption to a degree that counts and this country would be on a really really good path. The problem is the following.... where is this person?
BTW, for those of you wondering, yes I have met Leonel. He is truly a fascinating person to have a conversation with and his hopes for the country are very apparent in his general attitude, which is positive. I can't say the same of other certain politicians I have met, whose corrupt ways are apparent even in their laughs.
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My 2 cents
NalOwhs I want to thank you for that post as that is what I thought about Leonel but I have never had the pleasure to meet him. I also believe what you said about the Hippo is true also as there is the possibility that his original intention were in fact honest and for the country. The problem as I see it is that Hippo as well as Leonel had and have the same problem and that is the deputies and senators. It doesn't matter that they are majority PRD the fact that the majority of them are corrupt, PRD-PLD and PRSC, and because of this their intentions are for their pockets and not the country. Therefore who ever is president will find a non winnable task in front of them.
There are those in other threads that state that the DR is a democracy on the surface only and this may be partially true but it is in fact a democracy in that the final vote dictates who will lead. I think the last election was a true testament to this.
Corruption is, IMHO, the main reason that all the problems of the DR are not being taken care of such as education, health care etc.What is it that those of you out there think a president can do in this country or any country when his cabinet and houses are not behind him in the desire to better the country? As I see it Hippo's hands were and Leonel's hands are tied behind their backs for true progression in this country.
That being said then I would suggest that you begin to look for NEW AND GOOD people to run for office in the upcoming elections.
From DR1 news 13 Oct 05
If you don't have the proof or are afraid to mention the bad things that the present politicians have done then mention those things they HAVE NOT done as there is pleanty proof of that. We need politicians in office that have the welfare of this country at heart.
New report on world corruption at;
http://www.transparency.org/cpi/2005/cpi2005_infocus.html
NalOwhs I want to thank you for that post as that is what I thought about Leonel but I have never had the pleasure to meet him. I also believe what you said about the Hippo is true also as there is the possibility that his original intention were in fact honest and for the country. The problem as I see it is that Hippo as well as Leonel had and have the same problem and that is the deputies and senators. It doesn't matter that they are majority PRD the fact that the majority of them are corrupt, PRD-PLD and PRSC, and because of this their intentions are for their pockets and not the country. Therefore who ever is president will find a non winnable task in front of them.
There are those in other threads that state that the DR is a democracy on the surface only and this may be partially true but it is in fact a democracy in that the final vote dictates who will lead. I think the last election was a true testament to this.
Corruption is, IMHO, the main reason that all the problems of the DR are not being taken care of such as education, health care etc.What is it that those of you out there think a president can do in this country or any country when his cabinet and houses are not behind him in the desire to better the country? As I see it Hippo's hands were and Leonel's hands are tied behind their backs for true progression in this country.
That being said then I would suggest that you begin to look for NEW AND GOOD people to run for office in the upcoming elections.
From DR1 news 13 Oct 05
If you don't have the proof or are afraid to mention the bad things that the present politicians have done then mention those things they HAVE NOT done as there is pleanty proof of that. We need politicians in office that have the welfare of this country at heart.
New report on world corruption at;
http://www.transparency.org/cpi/2005/cpi2005_infocus.html
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The truth is the truth.Rick Snyder said:
Certainly!Rick Snyder said:
I was expecting some type of revolt, coup, or empeachment of some sort towards Hipolito's government, but to my surprise (and delight) the people of this country waited, on the day it came to cast their votes they did and the rest is history....
The ability of a group of people choosing their leaders with no fraud, and do this in a relatively calm, humane, and civilized manner is truly impressive for a country that 40 years ago was under a dictatorship and 9 years ago had the only true real election, because we all know Balaguer voted himself into power multiple times prior to that
!Let's see how Haiti does, since their elections are coming soon. Hopefully it goes well, but Haiti has a habit of not complying with one's expectations, other than the worst. Why is this the case? Again, I wish I knew the answer.
Corruption hinders progress in search of solving such problems, but there are other factors that cause strain, such as that ever growing national debt and its payments.Rick Snyder said:
Look at this problem in this way, let's say you get 100 monetary value, let's call it pesos every week. Using the percentages that the DR government is applying to its obligations from its revenue sources, rounghly, 60 pesos goes to pay the debt. Already, you only have 40 pesos on hand. You still have to pay "membership fees" to stay a member in bilateral organizations (such as WTO, etc), there goes around 5 pesos. Petroleum is taking around 25 pesos. The amount of money spent on social programs (education, health, etc) takes around 5 pesos. Corruption takes the rest.
Remember, the amount devoted to education, health, etc is not adequate for the most part, but where are you going to get the money to fully fund those things.
Of course, if corruption would be eliminated it will help for sure, but it will be even better if the national debt was forgiven (as will be the case for certain African and Latin countries, DR excluded). 60% is too much to be paying on interest only payments! Even more so for a developing country!
Well, Hippo's hands were tied, but Leonel is much smarter. Leonel knows what he is doing, the problem is that everybody else seems to not know, except a few people in the central bank and a few (very very few) in the cabinet and houses.Rick Snyder said:
This is evident by the completely different economic picture we have today, as oppose to what we had over a year ago!
Thanks for that interesting source!
-NAL
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Nal0whs said:I was expecting some type of revolt, coup, or empeachment of some sort towards Hipolito's government, but to my surprise (and delight) the people of this country waited, on the day it came to cast their votes they did and the rest is history....
The ability of a group of people choosing their leaders with no fraud, and do this in a relatively calm, humane, and civilized manner is truly impressive for a country that 40 years ago was under a dictatorship and 9 years ago had the only true real election, because we all know Balaguer voted himself into power multiple times prior to that
On this we agree. As much as I hated Hippo and what he did to the country, I was pleased to see that the Dominican people chose the peaceful and democratic route to regime change. Let's hope the trend is not reverseable, as it has proven to be in some other Latin American nations.
One problem I have with Leonel supporters, yourself included, is that they too quickly try to change the subject from battling corruption (one of Leonel's clearest election pledges) to almost anything else, but particularly the debt load. Servicing the debt and "maintaining the confidence of the markets" has become the PLD's universal excuses for inaction on a host of issues.
Only problem is, we both know that one or two less helicopters and fighter planes for the military and the elmination of at least some of the botellas on the bloated government payroll (yet another unfulfilled Leonel election pledge) would more than double the health and education budgets. Add strong audits and procurement controls in public hospitals and clinics, and you'd have even more budget to spend on worthwhile things like childhood vaccinations...
Nals, give me a break. Most of the countries getting their debt relieved, especially those in Africa, are getting it because they have had drought, famine, war and huge devastation in human and financial resources by AIDS, and some have had negative economic growth for multiple years. The DR has had none of that. The debt it has was entered into willingly, and the economic performance of the DR did not merit lumping it with the poorest nations of Africa. Forgive the debt? Why? SImply because it's the DR? Simply Leonel asks? You yourself constantly argue that the DR should be considered a middle income country. How can you argue that a middle income country should be forgiven of debt it took on willingly?
Debt has come and gone in the DR, but corruption has endured.
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NalOwhs I have a few questions for you if you would be so kind as to reply to them.
1. Do you believe that replacing the majority of the entrenched elected officials would possibly lead to eleminating a lot of if not almost all the corruption in the DR?
2.If the answer to the first question is yes then what strategy should be used to accompolish this?
3.In the hopes that you agree that the majority of the present elected officials MUST go then the question here is what you, as an influential Dominican, are doing to bring about change in the political structure for the upcoming elections?
1. Do you believe that replacing the majority of the entrenched elected officials would possibly lead to eleminating a lot of if not almost all the corruption in the DR?
2.If the answer to the first question is yes then what strategy should be used to accompolish this?
3.In the hopes that you agree that the majority of the present elected officials MUST go then the question here is what you, as an influential Dominican, are doing to bring about change in the political structure for the upcoming elections?
The Policia Nacional in Santo Domingo are the most corrupt thieves on the Island. They all ought to be lined up against the Justice Building and shoot off their hands so they cannot stop the tourists and hassle them for money and threaten beatings and jail time. Been there 4 times and each time one or more police have participated in such action. If I lived there I would take photos of all the corrupt police and force the American Consulate and the Police Department to prosecute them.
No, but replacing many of the elected officials would lead to lowering the level of corruption within the government, at the highest levels.Rick Snyder said:
Honestly, I don't know of a way that this can be accomplished while maintaining social and macroeconomic stability at the same time.Rick Snyder said:
There are ways, but they would probably cause instability within the government which would probably lead to instability in everything else.
There is not much I actually can do, given that this is a democracy.Rick Snyder said:
The power is in the people and we all know how they pick their not so great to mediocre leaders. The masses are too quickly judgemental and they believe the most pessimist of things that are told to them by officials and otherwise. This results in different leaders getting elected, but not necessarily stellar leaders.
I am not engaging in any public outcry towards any of this, because I don't feel ready for the possible implications that would have on me and my personal life, not to mention that of my family. However, the possibility that I might do something of the sort in the future I have not ruled out, yet.
However, I am constantly voicing my opinion among friends, acquaintances, and associates of mine about this situation and am being hopeful that such opinion would be perpetuated into broader audiences via certain people who are much more influential than I am myself.
-NAL