Needless Dominican Deaths

Porfirio

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Aug 30, 2005
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The polution entering the air by cars and motorcycles in such disgraceful condition is bringing premature death to thousands of Dominicans. When anyone is unfortunate enough to drive behind an old relic or junk car, or motorcycle spewing polutants into the air and into autos following behind the offending car, the human pulmonary system is irreparably damaged. The violating vehicles that must be removed from the roads are also a danger with faulty brakeing systems and worn out tires. Compound these polutants we inhale together with those foolish enough to smoke cigarettes and blow the smoke into our faces the result is premature deaths due to lung cancer emphasema, and heart attacks. Laws now existing could correct these inadequacies, but stricter laws with real panalties must be enacted and truly enforced. Protect yourselves, and more importantly give our children a chance to live longer and free from painful diseases such as cancer, emphasema and heart disease.
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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He Must Think That This Is A "REAL" Country!!!!

There must be about 50 "things" that have a priority over "Polution" when you make a "To Do" List for the DR!
Try:
Education
health care
clean water
garbage collection
public housing
electricity
Family Planning
Feed the Children(You can't "Feed" the Adults,they are drunk!)
Reform the National Police forces,and the Military
and the perrenial favorite,never to be forgotten,and never to be accomplished! "End Government Corruption"
I would gladly suck down some "pollution" if you can just solve ONE of the above list!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCc
 

miguel

I didn't last long...
Jul 2, 2003
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Oh noooo!!

Porfirio said:
The polution entering the air by cars and motorcycles in such disgraceful condition is bringing premature death to thousands of Dominicans. When anyone is unfortunate enough to drive behind an old relic or junk car, or motorcycle spewing polutants into the air and into autos following behind the offending car, the human pulmonary system is irreparably damaged. The violating vehicles that must be removed from the roads are also a danger with faulty brakeing systems and worn out tires. Compound these polutants we inhale together with those foolish enough to smoke cigarettes and blow the smoke into our faces the result is premature deaths due to lung cancer emphasema, and heart attacks. Laws now existing could correct these inadequacies, but stricter laws with real panalties must be enacted and truly enforced. Protect yourselves, and more importantly give our children a chance to live longer and free from painful diseases such as cancer, emphasema and heart disease.
Welcome to the every day life in the DR!!!.

Do you know that the Dominican motto is?. "Don't like it or can not adapt to it, get out because it's not going to change, not for you nor for me". Well, at least my motto!!.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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miguel said:
Welcome to the every day life in the DR!!!.

Do you know that the Dominican motto is?. "Don't like it or can not adapt to it, get out because it's not going to change, not for you nor for me". Well, at least my motto!!.
I think that's everybody's model, on this island anyways. :nervous:
 

ricktoronto

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Jan 9, 2002
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They should work on the 2,000 murders a year also. Though some might be smokers or drive junkers. Don't count them twice in the crusade.
 

Eddy

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Jan 1, 2002
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We all gotta die of something

What can I add.
 
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Mirador

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Apr 15, 2004
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...compared to Canada, we didn't even make the list.

Canada is one of the worst environmental performers in the industrialized world and has shown no improvement over the past decade, a new study says.

The report, researched at Simon Fraser University and released by the David Suzuki Foundation, ranked Canada 28th out of 30 member countries of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development.


CBC News
 

Keith R

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Jan 1, 2002
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Mirador, the DR does not belong to the OECD, so of course it's not included in the Simon Fraser study.

I always find these environmental ranking exercises suspect. That said, just for fun and discussion, some here might find interesting the following I posted on my website earlier this year about the only environmental ranking exercise I know that includes the DR -- which, by the way, was ranked 129 out of 146 countries worldwide, 91 out of the 116 non-OECD nations (see attached chart):

Three Latin America Nations Ranked Among Global Top Ten in Environmental Sustainability Index

The 2005 version of the Environmental Sustainability Index (ESI) rankings of 146 countries was released 27 January 2005 during the World Economic Forum (WEF) held in Davos, Switzerland. The ESI was developed by Yale and Colombia Universities in collaboration with WEF. The ESI "is a composite index tracking a diverse set of socioeconomic, environmental, and institutional indicators" attempting to provide decision-makers with more analytical tools for measuring country performance and trends. The idea, in large part, is to create public pressure for governments to improve their environmental policy performance.

This year a Latin American nation, Uruguay, was ranked third in the world and number one among the countries not belonging to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) (among Latin America and Caribbean - LAC - nations, only Mexico belongs to the OECD, and it ranked 26 among the 29 OECD nations rated, in front of Poland, Belgium and South Korea). The global top ten includes only two other LAC nations, Guyana (8, which also ranked #2 among non-OECD nations) and Argentina (9, #3 among non-OECD), but four others are among the non-OECD top ten -- beyond the aforementioned three are Brazil (4), Peru (7), Paraguay (8) and Costa Rica (9).

Other LAC nations ranked higher globally than the US (45) are Brazil (11), Peru (16), Paraguay (17), Costa Rica (18), Bolivia (20), Colombia (23), Panama (28) and Chile (42).

The lowest ranked LAC nation, not surprisingly in light of the political and economic chaos in that country in recent years, was Haiti: 143 in global ranking and 112 among non-OECD nations.

It should be noted that the ESI does not rank the LAC nations of Antigua & Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Dominica, Grenada, St. Kitts & Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent & the Grenadines, and Suriname.
 
L

LarrySpencer

Guest
Wow, that's about all I've got to say....

Let's take away all the motos, all the cars with bad exhaust....oh, for that matter, let's take it a step further...every car imported into the DR can only be imported from California after passing their stringent smog II program, the toughest in the entire nation. Everyone can see it's worked so well for Los Angeles....still can't see clear blue sky.

The Dominican Republic has this wonderful thing called, and tell me if you've ever heard of it because I know it's a new and exciting thing, rain. Lots and lots of rain. These tiny little droplets tend to clear the air right up...and combined with the wind that pushes what's left out to sea...or at least to Haiti and Cuba, things aren't so bad.

I have yet to see someone gasping for air. And maybe, just maybe these premature deaths can be attributed to a poor medical program, lack of innoculations, potable water, and the list goes on and on.
 

Keith R

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LarrySpencer said:
I have yet to see someone gasping for air. And maybe, just maybe these premature deaths can be attributed to a poor medical program, lack of innoculations, potable water, and the list goes on and on.
Then maybe, just maybe, you don't have an asthmatic in your family and have yet to live 24/7/365 like I did in SD for four years. My daughter had episodes of gasping for air triggered by atmospheric conditions in SD.

Rain does not solve everything -- as a purported environment writer (your own claim in another thread) -- you should know that. As a matter of fact, rain in the DR often causes as many environmental and health problems as it may solve.

The Environment Forum Moderator
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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There appears to be a high incidence of asthma in SD, as in every polluted city. It's not just the poorly maintained vehicles that are to blame, it's also the sheer number of all vehicles and the extent to which they are (over)used, not to mention the generators.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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People,

Don't forget the air in these regions gets filled with sand (yes, you read correctly, keep reading) from time to time.

Believe it or not, I certainly believe this because everytimes it happens my eyes get itchy and dry and the coughing starts and keeps going and going and going, some sand storms that blow off the Sahara desert (yes, you read that right the SAHARA IN AFRICA) are so large and strong that sufficient sand particles actually reaches the Caribbean. On those days when it does, the sun looks murky and allergic people live a living hell, until those wonderful downpours clear the air of all that "pollution".

Also, we got the trade winds which helps keep our pollution levels at bay nationwide, in addition to the fact that our biggest cities are not in a bowl mountain valley. Despite the fact that Santo Domingo has the worst air quality in the country, it's still extremely better than what you can expect to find in say Mexico City, Bogota on a warm day, or any other major Latin American city in a bowl mountainous valley.

We can all agree that if those electric generators would not be used so often (of course, that depends on how dependable the electrical grid is, but with everyone and their mother stealing that vital juice, well...) and if those disgusting smoke belching cars would get banned and removed from the road. Even some motorcycles belch so much crap that you can't drive behind them because the smoke blocks your view!

And let's not even start talking about those giant Mac trucks, yuck yuck yuck or should I say cough, cough, cough!!

-NAL
 
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Stodgord

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Nov 19, 2004
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Perhaps, cleaner gasoline and car maintenance could help those belches. I remember renting a 1997 Honda CR-V. It look presentable from the outside but internally it was (explotao). Once I hit the highway, the backfiring started and the fume were coming inside the car. I arrived to my destination with a headache and a bad,tingly and heavy taste in my mouth.

When it comes to cars Dominicans think that a fresh painted vehicle is new despite the internal components being deteriorated. This reminds me of one time I was visiting a distant relative, his son had just purchased a brand new car (as they put it), but is was a refurbished used car.
 
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LarrySpencer

Guest
Asthma, I'm terribly sorry about your child being afflicted with this awful disease, but let's not jump to conclusions about the causes.

The number one cause of Asthma is genetics. Yes, asthma tends to run in families and many people with asthma also have other allergic contisions such as shinitis (inflammation of the nose lining).

Some environmental factors also may trigger the disease, or "kick start" it in small bebies by affecting the immune system in early life. These include, living in warm, well-furnished, carpeted homes that don't allow much airflow. Yes, that's right, I said living in well enclosed structures. These provide a great breeding ground for large numbers of house dust mites in bedding, carpets and furnishings. Many children spend too much time playing indoors, rather than outdoors. This further increases the dust mite sensitisation. Exposure to tobacco smoke whether during the mother's pregnancy or in early childhood predisposes children to developing asthma and can make the symptoms more severe. Children also become sensitised to animals, pollens, molds and dust.

Changes in diet can also trigger asthma. High proportions of processed foods, higher salt intakes, a lower antioxidant intake and a lack of fresh fish (lower intake omega-3 fatty acids).

Lack of Excercise: Spending more time in front of the television means children get far less exercise, causing less stretching of the airways and a greater tendency for the muscle in the airway walls to contract abnormally when exposed to minor irritants.

And the final possible causes, listed lastly because it is not as common...occupational exposure. This includes things like breathing car exhaust, chemicals, gases, etc.

So, although your child suffers from this, don't go jumping on the environmental over reactionists bandwagon just yet. Take a look at the other things you are doing as well as your family history first.

And maybe, just maybe, you will find that there are more cases of asthma in Santo Domingo primarily because there are just more people there!
 
L

LarrySpencer

Guest
Stodgord said:
Perhaps, cleaner gasoline and car maintenance could help those belches. I remember renting a 1997 Honda CR-V. It look presentable from the outside but internally it was (explotao). Once I hit the highway, the backfiring started and the fume were coming inside the car. I arrived to my destination with a headache and a bad,tingly and heavy taste in my mouth.

When it comes to cars Dominicans think that a fresh painted vehicle is new despite the internal components being deteriorated. This reminds me of one time I was visiting a distant relative, his son had just purchased a brand new car (as they put it), but is was a refurbished used car.

Wow, there's a great idea, cleaner fuel and car maintenance....

You must be from California, because that's where I'm from and the cost of driving is higher here than anywhere else in the nation. For instance, all cars registered in California must be built for California emission standards. This means that every two years, when your vehicle is registered (by the way you have to register it every year) it must pass a smog test by an independent testing facility. If it doesn't pass, it will not be registered and cannot be on the road. So let's see, registration is about 80 per year on my car and the smog test is another 60.

Now lets talk about fuel. California is the only state that requires that fuel be refined differently and additional chemicals added to make it cleaner burning. This makes our fuel cost about $.20 above the national average. Take in mind that the national average is skewed already because it includes California fuel costs, therefore the average cost of fuel in CA is really a little closer to $.25 higher. I fill my tank about twice every week...let's see, an 18-gallon tank, times $.25, times 2X per week, times 52 weeks per year....So I'm paying roughly 468 more per year just for fuel. So, that is approximately 17% of the average income of the dominican public in added fuel costs alone. So if we increase fuel costs by this percentage, that means that just about everything else that is trucked in will also share this increased cost. By the way, the total fuel cost for this particular vehicle is about 5616 USD per year, and this is figured at about 93 DP, which we all know is much more than that. So cleaner fuel....yeah, that's gonna fly!
 

Keith R

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Larry,
Maybe you meant well, and it is always good to point out the many triggers and causes of asthma, but (a) I know what triggers asthma in me and my daughter; (b) after working on environmental and health issues for 25 years, I damn well know that the pollution levels in SD are sufficient to trigger asthmatic episodes.
I know my daughter's asthma triggers, thank you very much, so don't presume to lecture me about them. And while we lived in SD there was usually a strong correlation to exposure to traffic exhaust and or unrestricted emissions from construction sites, or in one case, the Duquesa waste dump being burnt, which deposited a black dust over much of western SD for days one year.
Some of your discussion of asthma triggers also exposes your limited knowledge of living conditions "on the ground" in the DR, as well. Carpets? How many carpets have you seen in Dominican homes? I've seen very, very few, and I have been visiting Dominican homes for 20 yrs and lived there full-time for four.
Lack of airflow? Most Dominican homes are open to airflow year-round, 24 hrs a day. Mine certainly was. Perhaps the very rich with air conditioning supported by a generator (planta) keep their airflow minimized, but most Dominicans and I venture to guess most DR1ers do not have such houses.
Lack of playing outside? You must have never raised kids in the DR. I did. They played more outside than in.
And one more thing....

So, although your child suffers from this, don't go jumping on the environmental over reactionists bandwagon just yet. Take a look at the other things you are doing as well as your family history first.

First time I have been called an over-reactionist by anyone on this board, at least that I recall. Ask anyone who has been on this board any length of time back to my first posts in 1998. I don't jump on anyone's bandwagon. I tend to consider carefully before posting, and when I do, try to give measured posts. Just guessing, but that's probably why I was asked to be the Environment Forum Moderator.
 

Keith R

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LarrySpencer said:
Wow, there's a great idea, cleaner fuel and car maintenance....

You must be from California, because that's where I'm from and the cost of driving is higher here than anywhere else in the nation. For instance, all cars registered in California must be built for California emission standards. This means that every two years, when your vehicle is registered (by the way you have to register it every year) it must pass a smog test by an independent testing facility. If it doesn't pass, it will not be registered and cannot be on the road. So let's see, registration is about 80 per year on my car and the smog test is another 60.

Now lets talk about fuel. California is the only state that requires that fuel be refined differently and additional chemicals added to make it cleaner burning. This makes our fuel cost about $.20 above the national average. Take in mind that the national average is skewed already because it includes California fuel costs, therefore the average cost of fuel in CA is really a little closer to $.25 higher. I fill my tank about twice every week...let's see, an 18-gallon tank, times $.25, times 2X per week, times 52 weeks per year....So I'm paying roughly 468 more per year just for fuel. So, that is approximately 17% of the average income of the dominican public in added fuel costs alone. So if we increase fuel costs by this percentage, that means that just about everything else that is trucked in will also share this increased cost. By the way, the total fuel cost for this particular vehicle is about 5616 USD per year, and this is figured at about 93 DP, which we all know is much more than that. So cleaner fuel....yeah, that's gonna fly!
No, let's talk about the Dominican Republic, not California. Do you know anything about fuel quality in the DR? The ambiente NOx, SOx, CO and particulate levels in Santo Domingo? What is the average age and condition of the fleet in the DR?

And comparing fuel costs in California -- some of the highest in the US, with special conditions, special EPA blending rules, and CAL-EPA rules that no other state must match, etc. -- with anything in the DR is simply specious. The costs don't translate. The two situations are like apples and oranges. If you wish to compare the compliance costs for fuel in Costa Rica with that of the DR, then maybe there's something worth discussing. But c'mon! There's a reason worldwide "California rules" means the toughest, most costly vehicle emissions norms!

The Environment Forum Moderator
 
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Keith R

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Nal0whs said:
People,

Don't forget the air in these regions gets filled with sand (yes, you read correctly, keep reading) from time to time.

Believe it or not, I certainly believe this because everytimes it happens my eyes get itchy and dry and the coughing starts and keeps going and going and going, some sand storms that blow off the Sahara desert (yes, you read that right the SAHARA IN AFRICA) are so large and strong that sufficient sand particles actually reaches the Caribbean. On those days when it does, the sun looks murky and allergic people live a living hell, until those wonderful downpours clear the air of all that "pollution".

Also, we got the trade winds which helps keep our pollution levels at bay nationwide, in addition to the fact that our biggest cities are not in a bowl mountain valley. Despite the fact that Santo Domingo has the worst air quality in the country, it's still extremely better than what you can expect to find in say Mexico City, Bogota on a warm day, or any other major Latin American city in a bowl mountainous valley.

We can all agree that if those electric generators would not be used so often (of course, that depends on how dependable the electrical grid is, but with everyone and their mother stealing that vital juice, well...) and if those disgusting smoke belching cars would get banned and removed from the road. Even some motorcycles belch so much crap that you can't drive behind them because the smoke blocks your view!

And let's not even start talking about those giant Mac trucks, yuck yuck yuck or should I say cough, cough, cough!!

-NAL
Nals, sand is not a big contributor to poor air quality in SD. Sorry, nice try. Ash from uncontrolled open-air burning, dust from uncontrolled construction practice, maybe, but sand, nah....

Comparing ANY CITY to Mexico City will make that city look good. C'mon! You picked one of the worst in the world. Doesn't mean SD is all that good.

And oh, BTW, Bogota's air quality has been improving and they are taking steps to improve it further still. Just what is this government doing? Anything at all?
 
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NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Keith R said:
Nals, sand is not a big contributor to poor air quality in SD. Sorry, nice try. Ash from uncontrolled open-air burning, dust from uncontrolled construction practice, maybe, but sand, nah....

Comparing ANY CITY to Mexico City will make that city look good. C'mon! You picked one of the worst in the world. Doesn't mean SD is all that good.

And oh, BTW, Bogota's air quality has been improving and they are taking steps to improve it further still. Just what is this government doing? Anything at all?
I heard of a metro, but you know how that was taken care of by the media...

And, Keith, next time a massive sand storm blows off the African coast heading our way, track it. You will notice the difference.

And, yes, ok, Mexico City was not the best example, but perhaps our American friends can show us the way. Let's use Los Angeles as an example?

Or perhaps northeastern American cities in the middle of July?

Or maybe, just maybe Atlanta in August?

;) ;)