Reason's of why education in D.R. is not progressing!

Education remains a non-issue in the DR...

The education system in the DR is extremely deficient.

The public school system being the best example and some of the chronic problems include:

+ lack of quality teachers and lack of motivation by the teachers
+ very low remuneration
+ poor facilities
+ outdated curriculum
+ lack of supplies

all resulting in a very high drop out rate.

Everything you say is true but at the end of the day Dominican politicians are like empty barrels that just make loud noise and nothing else. The education problem like so many others could have been improved or rectified if governments past and present had a genuine interest in doing so. I agree as well, that it is two-fold meaning Dominicans have to demand it and the government has to supply it. However, I will lean on the supply side because successful countries breed successful people and if the Dominican Republic has a chance at advancing in decades to come the education problem in my opinion is the biggest gap that needs improvement.

There is no excuse for the state of education in the DR. The neglect over decades has taken the crisis to another level. Other countries in Latin America comparatively speaking to the DR are struggling economically etc. but the school system has not reached the abyss of disgrace that exists currently in the DR. In any society there will always be a segment of the population that's deemed as 'uneducated', or not representative of the standard however, in the DR the average person in my opinion falls in this category and at a very young age. Many individuals have below average reading and writing skills, have not completed their education (or even finished high school) all of which means their future is extremely limited and another generation will fall short which in turn will impact the future of the country.

I honestly think the best solution right now is to help children on an individual basis or in small groups. Children who are willing and eager to learn but have obstacles in their way (no fault of their own) is the best way to make an impact at present. The government’s game plan regarding education is patent-they don’t care. Therefore the best contribution anyone can make right now in my opinion is helping one on one. There is no time to wait for the government to act. It’s just not in their best interest.


LDG.

Lesley D said:

...

...I honestly think the best solution right now is to help children on an individual basis or in small groups. ... Therefore the best contribution anyone can make right now in my opinion is helping one on one. There is no time to wait for the government to act. It?s just not in their best interest. LDG.

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What you propose will result in an elitist society, where a priviledged few are cultured, educated and rich, while the masses will remain mired in ignorance and poverty.

Mirador...

I don't agree and I will leave it at that. Nothing is being done right now. Therefore...
The ones I am proposing to help right now are the less fortunate.


LDG.

Mirador said:

What you propose will result in an elitist society, where a priviledged few are cultured, educated and rich, while the masses will remain mired in ignorance and poverty.

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Mirador said:

What you propose will result in an elitist society, where a priviledged few are cultured, educated and rich, while the masses will remain mired in ignorance and poverty.

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Not really, Mirador. But what it will do is educates more people than if we wait for the Government to do something.

That's like saying that organizing people to clean and pick up trash in some places will only make those places more elite. So why do it?

Every little bit counts. And it spreads from there.

Scandall

Don't waste time trying to convince Mirador. We have a similar thread going on environmental education [http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45790] where I suggested that maybe DR1ers could form a voluntary effort to try to bring environmental education activities to public schools, tapping the experience of Chirimoya and others in doing this very thing elsewhere. Mirador derided us all as dreamers, "quixotic." He argued only a "concerted effort" by the government was going to solve this problem, and since the government obviously was not going to do anything about it, we were just wasting time.

Keith

Keith R said:

Don't waste time trying to convince Mirador. We have a similar thread going on environmental education [http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45790] where I suggested that maybe DR1ers could form a voluntary effort to try to bring environmental education activities to public schools, tapping the experience of Chirimoya and others in doing this very thing elsewhere. Mirador derided us all as dreamers, "quixotic." He argued only a "concerted effort" by the government was going to solve this problem, and since the government obviously was not going to do anything about it, we were just wasting time. Keith

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I'm actually very gullible and easily convinced. All I was trying to do was goad an argument for elitism. Some of the most successful (long-lasting, stable, etc) societies of the past have been elitist. I like social tinkering and engineering. Who suggest we go without government all together? Also, I profoundly respect and admire the quixotic, those persons who go for it against all odds, living their dream, even against reason, for they are always touched by the divine. Don't let me discourage you. You can count on me.

daddy1 said:

When you read articles on D.R.'s educational system, or lack there of, I am astonished at how many Domincan's, still don't realize that without education as there priority, a community can't, and will not ever be succesful, what I also find disturbing, is that the older, nor younger generation of Dominicans are not seeing this issue as front and center when these politicians open there mouth's!

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Daddy1, here is a quick lesson on Dominicana 101.

Most Dominicans CANNOT imagine a successful Dominican Republic.

They can't imagine any of the problems being solved, they can't imagine anything other than life is better elsewhere and if you want a better life, all you have to do is migrate!

It's not a question of people not seeing education as a priority, but rather a much bigger picture based on pessimism that has been ingrained in the Dominican psyche for over 100 years!

The interesting thing is that it appears, that many Dominicans continue to shun education even when its readily available to them, as we have seen with Dominican emigrants in the US.

But, then again, this could be a manifestation of that negative pessimism many Dominicans have of problems being unsolvable, thus if they are born in poverty, many believe nothing will take them out of it, thus why study?

Remember that age old poem:

If you think you are beaten, you are,
If you think you dare not, you don't
If you like to win, but you think you can't,
It is almost certain you won't.

If you think you'll lose, you're lost,
For out in the world we find,
Success begins with a fellow's will-
It's all in the state of mind.

If you think you are outclassed, you are,
You've got to think high to rise,
You've got to be sure of yourself before
You can ever win a prize.

Life battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man,
But soon or late the man who whins
Is the man who thinks he can!

Guess what? Many Dominicans think they are beaten, and guess what, they are!

Not because of anything else other than their own personal pessimism towards anything regarding this country and their future. Many Dominican look at the problems and country in the very same extract manner they look at God, it's something out there, beyond their control, with little or no care for their input.

The only Dominicans who are getting excellent grades, even in the public education system,

The only Dominicans who are achieving great heights in their personal finances, even in the recent state of the economy,

The only Dominicans who are going beyond what was expected of them,
even when people though they were worthless,

Are those Dominicans who saw themselves succeed, believed they had to succeed or else!

The mental attitude needed for real success is, I either I win or perish!

You need to not leave an escape route, you have to do that thing!

The problem is that most Dominicans have migration in their minds, and that is how they solve their problems.

Leaving to far away lands where they can forget of Dominican problems, not be subjected to Dominican problem, and be able to complain about Dominican problems while their own Dominican self is living from the work ethic, ingenuety, initiative, and results of another peoples land!

That is where the problem lies!

-NAL

Nal0whs said:

The interesting thing is that it appears, that many Dominicans continue to shun education even when its readily available to them, as we have seen with Dominican emigrants in the US.

-NAL

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??????????????????

Mirador says: "What you propose will result in an elitist society, where a priviledged few are cultured, educated and rich, while the masses will remain mired in ignorance and poverty."

What do you think you have now?

daddy1 said:

When you read articles on D.R.'s educational system, or lack there of, I am astonished at how many Domincan's, still don't realize that without education as there priority, a community can't, and will not ever be succesful, what I also find disturbing, is that the older, nor younger generation of Dominicans are not seeing this issue as front and center when these politicians open there mouth's!

Uneducated Dominican's just don't affect the people in the island, they also affect those that live in the states as well....it has surely plagued the community as a whole, the issue and most of all my personal confusion is this... why do Dominican's throw this issue aside?, if they know that this problem is destroying the community in general, why has the community and there millionaire athlete's have treated this with a grain of salt?...why haven't Dominican's in the U.S. protested this issue in front of there elected officals or consulates...I know what some of you will say...that Dominican's don't want it! but I say to those who believe this nonsense... how can you not want, what you know nothing about!...if you never experienced the full force and stimulation of a good educatioanal program with athletics and modern facilities, then how can you come to that conclusion...

To me personally the islands children are under-attack by MLB baseball, the Presidente beer company, the variety shows , and last but not least, there own parents, who demand everything but fight for nothing, Dominican's have become numb to the fact that there children are being severely neglected and exploited, this act has also become... well, OK!...there passing down this destructive behavior to there children both in the U.S. and in D.R.

I mean the whole system needs to be reconstructed, and rebuilt...it just has to many road blocks to keep it from progressing but what's more mind boggling is that it remains to stay the same, the community has become addicted to under-achieving, it has lost it's will to fight remember folk's no guts no glory!

Those of you who are educated...and there are many well educated Dominican's have falled the commuinty...even in your education you have become selfish!...and believe it or not D.R. has been and still continues to be in a civil war they create there problems and then try to solve them but the more problems they seem to resolve the more problems they create because they want to contine to neglect the real problems, it's a destructive circle of how some wars are waged without weapons.

There is nothing wrong with being poor, but keeping a community deliberately uneducated is an act of internal terrorism, let no Dominican be fooled,, please wake up and visualize that your politicians are trying to perfect the art of manipulation...keen and savy businessmen who know what it takes to keep money in there pockets it is the ultimate goal in D.R. today pursuade the masses that there are others causing there pain and there poverty, when in fact it's your own family issuing the abuse, keep the people guessing and distracted is the game...

Sorry that it would seem like I'm an extremist, or a sort of conspiracy theorist, but war is war!...and it's time for all of you who really love that country to think about those children's future, I just can't travel to D.R. and see the conditions of these kids anymore!

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Reasons Include:

1. The DR contributes only 2.1% of gross national product to education when other latin american countries such as Venezuela and Panama contribute 4.1%, and 5.5% respectively.

2. The vast majority of Dominican teachers work at two or three tandas/sitios--tandas signifies a block of four hours: for example from (8am to 12pm or from 2 to 5:30 pm.

3. Although this study is outdated, I doubt this fact has changed much. In 1989 it was discovered that a teacher earns 30% less than a bilingual executive secretary.

4. Curently the average salary for a Dominican teacher is 30,000 pesos each year, while working 40 hours a week with only 15 days of vacation in a single year.

5. In 2002 only 1.53% of the government budget or RD $1,129.2 million
was put towards higer education. In part this explains the extremely low rate of matriculation at universities such as, Universidad Autonoma de Santo Domingo--fluctuating between 16% and 27%.

Despite all these factors, the DR has come a long way in combating a deficient educational system--hopefully El Plan Estrategico de Desarrollo de la Educacion Dominicana, presented in 2003, will help combat these factors.

The reason for no progression is because on no change. Lesley D explained it pretty well and of the list she presented I would have to say that outdated curriculum and lack of supplies are the biggest factors. As the majority of the children here go to public school then public school is what I'll talk about.

Having a child in public school has kept me busy in watching what goes on in his school and with what the Dept of Ed says. I can assure you that the present curriculum is waaaaay out of date and because of that the students are not being taught those things that would truly help them in their education and I believe this is one of the reasons they lose interest in school. Even with the present curriculum if the children don't have the necessary supplies to write with or on then how can a child really learn? If the teacher doesn't have chalk to write with how can she teach?

A number of people complain that the government doesn't supply enough money for education and I will state that more money will do virtually nothing to help educate the children. All more money will do is make the present thieves richer. If the present monies supplied were to be spent on education, without any filling pockets, then I think you would see an adequate amount of supplies. Here is one of many examples;

http://www.hoy.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=44118

Remember that article last year about the school director that had a teaching role assigned to her pet dog? I know she had to be laughing each month as she walked to the bank to cash her check and the check for her dog!

A considerable amount of time ago I mentioned how at days end there are a lot of janitorial personnel leaving the schools here in El Seybo with their arms full of rolls and cartons of milk. This happens everyday and I don't think that this happens in El Seybo only. These are supplies purchased by the Dept of Ed for the school children. Is this habit good or bad? Do these stolen supplies/money have any effect on our childrens education? If a school were to report a true number of students attending then wouldn't the government be saving more of the taxpayers money to be used elsewhere?

Because of all the corruption within all facets of the DR more money will not help the problem and I think Leonel knows this. Too many times he has stated how important education is for the children and this country. If corruption is a big culprit within the education system what can the president do to rid this demon? I don't think he can do anything as he hasn't been able to rid it in the houses of the legislative branch, judiciary branch or the executive branch.

So what can presently be done to help ALL the children and not a selected few? I say the first positive step is by changing the teaching curriculum. Who can make the necessary changes? The Secretary of Education has that sole power to change it as dictated to her in Ley 66-97, Articles 70, 63 and 64.

http://www.jmarcano.com/mipais/cultura/educacion/leyeduca.html

In my opinion that is where the first pressure should be applied instead of crying, moaning and groaning. I have tried for three years to apply pressure but to be honest with all of you they don't give a chit what a foreigner has to say. We need Dominicans to get this ball rolling.

Off subject but a very interesting article in USA Today concerning adult literacy in the USA. I bring this to light because of the mention of Hispanics in the article and Dominicans in the USA are categorized as being part of the Hispanic population there.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20051216/ts_usatoday/surveyfinds1in20lackbasicenglishskills

Rick

I just return from Puerto Plata. I met a Canadian Lady who lives in the mountian who is making an honest effort to help some of the poorest people residing in the D.R. Her email address is www.suncampdr.com anyone interested in learning how to help can email her. She would be happy to share her ideas. I know my next visit will not be at a fancy resort but instead working with these people.

A little update on the education system here in the DR.

Last week I sent a list of questions out to a couple of different "Asociaci?ns de Los Padres Y Amigos" and I received my answers this morning. This is an association based on the American PTA but with a little more power. Their role is to insure that our children are receiving a good education and the schools are receiving help for problems which the government can't or won't help. Each school has one of these organizations. Their presidents serve a one year term and are voted into office by the parents of the students of their respective school. They meet monthly throughout the year.

When reading the law used by the Dept of Ed, Ley 66-97 http://www.jmarcano.com/mipais/cultu.../leyeduca.html , you will see how these organizations are included within the framework of the education system i.e., Articles 59k, 66, 73i, 74i, 79v, 117d, 123b, 124c, 132 b and others. With this cooperation you would think that the education system would be better served right? WRONG!!!

It is a fact that you, as a parent with a child in school, can not attend a meeting of the Asociaci?n de Los Padres Y Amigos unless you have been personally invited.

It is a fact that no association from one school meets with an association of another school even in the same town.

It is a fact that these organizations never meet with any representives of the Dept of Ed from Santo Domingo throughout the year.

As these organizations operate in secret and don't communicate with like organizations or with the head office of the Dept of Ed then what good are they?

If these organizations would converse amongst each other they might find similar problems and the more minds working together the greater the possibility of finding a solution. If the parents were allowed to attend the meetings then the public would be aware of existing problems within the education system and there would be more minds working on the problems. If these organizations where to work with the Dept of Ed as outlined in Ley 66-97 would our children maybe receive a better education?

Food for thought.

Rick

Ambition to succeed...

I agree with NalOwhs' posting 100%. I have been visiting the Dominican Republic since 1974 and have been married to a Dominicana for the last 20. I strongly believe that most Dominicans suffer from a large dose of pessimism and lack of ambition. Case in point: My sister-in-law (well into her 40s) decided that she could do better than work at the dead-end job she had for the rest of her life. She decided to become a lawyer. She enrolled in a university, studied nights, and graduated with a degree in law. Some years later, she was named to a position as judge in Puerto Plata where she is today.With her position, came a diplomatic passport and she comes and goes as she pleases. My other in-laws work wherever they can find something to do or as they say 'chiripiando' or doing menial tasks here and there. Obviously, I know them well and do not believe that they are less intelligent than her or that she is so much more intelligent than them. However, she does have something that they sorely lack and that was the ambition to better her life and to do something about it! My wife is petitioning for them because, of course, they want to leave the DR for a 'better' life somewhere else. My sister-in-law, on the other hand, took advantage of what the system in the DR (good or bad) has to offer and made the best of it!

Very nice success story LatinoRican and it's nice to hear such outcomes. I too have witnessed the same here in the DR. The problems within the education system here must be addressed and implemented for the young children. Those children that have not yet had the pessimism, I prefer to use the word fatalism, and lack of ambition instilled in their minds. If the basics were completely taught first to lay that solid foundation for learning and then followed with up to date, proven concepts then I believe the interest rate would increase and the drop-out rate would decrease. With a lower drop-out rate then the possibility of an increase in diplomas would be evident.

A high drop-out rate in any society is shameful but here in the DR those statistics are 16% in the first grade, 2.5% in the second, 11% in the third and 10% in the fourth grade. This is in a society that has a mandatory school law. Nobody can give an adequate excuse for a 16% drop-out rate for the first grade, children 5 years old.

http://www.listindiario.com.do/antes/abril05/210405/cuerpos/republica/rep10.htm

Those of you that are Dominican regardless of which country you presently live in Please, Please, Please organize and do something, be it petition, phone or use your computers, to change the education system here in the DR. This is your native land we are talking about and it deserves better.

Rick

LatinoRican said:

I agree with NalOwhs' posting 100%. I have been visiting the Dominican Republic since 1974 and have been married to a Dominicana for the last 20. I strongly believe that most Dominicans suffer from a large dose of pessimism and lack of ambition. Case in point: My sister-in-law (well into her 40s) decided that she could do better than work at the dead-end job she had for the rest of her life. She decided to become a lawyer. She enrolled in a university, studied nights, and graduated with a degree in law. Some years later, she was named to a position as judge in Puerto Plata where she is today.With her position, came a diplomatic passport and she comes and goes as she pleases. My other in-laws work wherever they can find something to do or as they say 'chiripiando' or doing menial tasks here and there. Obviously, I know them well and do not believe that they are less intelligent than her or that she is so much more intelligent than them. However, she does have something that they sorely lack and that was the ambition to better her life and to do something about it! My wife is petitioning for them because, of course, they want to leave the DR for a 'better' life somewhere else. My sister-in-law, on the other hand, took advantage of what the system in the DR (good or bad) has to offer and made the best of it!

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This is precisely what I was referring to!

When ever you see people become successful in a place, it proves that its possible when there is a will!

We can only help people to a certain point, but we can only help people who already want to help themselves!

If their own desires are not in sync with progressing where they are right now, then what good would helping them be?

People must first want a better future to the point that nothing will stop them!

People need to learn to never recognize the word NO, to never GIVE UP, to never feel like a FAILURE!

The grass may look greener on the other side of the fence, but the grass on THIS SIDE OF THE FENCE only needs a little water to be the same!

That water is initiative, the will to succeed, the desire to either win or perish!

That water is believing in only one trajectory towards success and not recognize any alternative routes!

That water is believing in yourself beyond what you though possible, acting upon such belief, and never giving up!

All of this leads to my favorite quote of all: If you want something done, do it yourself!

This means, not accepting fate as the defining factor in your life, not letting negative people dictate your thoughts, not believing everything you see, not succumbing to complexities and failure!

Progress and poverty are a result of the mind, both coming out of being conscious of one or the other!

To be progressive, one needs to think like one, act like one, be like one!

-NAL

Ambition to succeed II...

Having all the things mentioned in the previous posts (better-prepared teachers, adequate school facilities, up-to-date technology, etc) is fine and dandy by me. However, if students do not have the ambition to succeed, to be somebody in the future, to better their lives, to wait for material possessions...NOTHING will change! The truth is that many students today look for IMMEDIATE GRATIFICATION. They want things NOW...the cellular phone, the nice clothes, the designer sports shoes, the car, the jewelry, the status, etc. Their priorities are inverted. They are not willing to wait until they graduate from a university or college as many of us did in order to obtain these things. Studying for many is a waste of time when they can be working at Plaza Naco, MacDonalds, or some other place even if it is for a pittance. This problem is not unique to the DR, but is being observed even in countries with the most advanced educational systems.