Los BorinCubanos

Very interesting, Lesley. It is true, particularly when it comes to names of many fruits, as well as many other examples. Although I grew up saying both nevera and refrigerador. When Cubans are shopping for one, we say refrigerador, but once it is inside your house, many times we simply say abre la nevera, or esta en la nevera, but refrigerador is used more now. Today just about every Cuban in the US says carro instead of maquina. I have not heard that word used to mean a car since I last visited Cuba years ago, but, when I lived in Cuba, like everyone else, I use to say maquina. Even Mexicans now say carro, when in Mexico they use coche insted. We do say cola instead of fila and cocina instead of estufa, but since I have always lived in California and Mexicans use those very same words, I' m very familiar with them. We call green beans habichuelas, so it was confusing at first when listening to Puerto Ricans and Dominicans using that word to mean frijoles. Cubans always say frijoles when referring to regular beans. It was only when I ate at a PR restaurant in Ponce that I realized that they use the word amarillos for some platanos. In addition, I see that some of the words used in PR came originally from English such as matre instead of colchon. I have no idea how they used to say it before. In Cuba we say cake, but that is another English word, I am still not sure what word Cubans used for cake before this became the standard word, but I have the feeling it was pastel.

Another difference that I see is that in Cuba we eat tamales, made from corn, while in PR they eat pasteles made from something else.

There are also differences in pronunciation: In Cuba we do not pronounce the R as Puerto Ricans do nor do we put the L in place of R, however, in western Cuba we tend to give both letters a different sound, hard to duplicate by non-cubans. In eastern Cuba they do pronounce each of this letters very clearly.

When Cubans, Puerto Ricans and Dominicans speak using the correct, standard form, like newscasters, you still can tell they speak with a Caribbean accent, but in that case it is harder to tell which island they are from. However, even then, I am almost always able to tell due to minor differences in entonation.

The cocina/estufa confusion got me into trouble with my late Venezuelan grandmother, many years ago. I had been asked to clean the kitchen, and did so very thoroughly, or so I thought. My grandmother performed an inspection and remarked that 'la cocina esta muy sucia'. I took offence, and was giving her an earful when my mother pointed out that she only meant the stove, not the entire kitchen.

Lesley, it is strange for a Cuban to say amol, it may happen, but it is almost always the case that this final r is hardly pronounced. However, this is more the case when the r or l are in the middle of a word, as in Armando or Olga, for example. In these cases I cannot represent with letters the sound of the r , but I know that Olga sounds like Ogga, more or less, also alguien which sounds like agguien. So, when Cubans want to correct it, they place an r where the L goes and it sounds like arguien. This is typical of western Cuba only: Havana, Pinar del Rio, Matanzas and some parts of former Las Villas province. East of that area, there is no confusion. Something else I have noticed is that Cubans from the easternmost part of the country, particularly the southern part of former Oriente province, do have a tendency to eliminate the S sound, just as Dominicans do, and sometimes place an S where it does not go. In the rest of Cuba, everyone aspires the S and it sounds like H. In Havana they are always making fun of the way people from the area around Santiago, Bayamo etc. speak.

Now, I do know that in Puerto Rico education and socio-economic factors do come into play with the use of L for R. As well as the particular sound of the R , the way Puerto Ricans use it. But I believe they have to make a conscious effort in order to avoid it.

Cuba was settled from east to west. Obviosly, the first settlers did not have a confusion between R and L, but in western Cuba this characteristic did develop. I have noticed the same among Andalusians. So, my guess is that a lot of people arrived thru the port of Havana after this speech pattern had developed in Andalusia. In this part of Cuba, blacks and whites, rich and poor etc. had that same pronunciation pattern when these two letters are in the middle of a word.

I have read that in Santo Domingo they put the L instead of R but in El Cibao region they have another sound.

I have noticed that Chileans from the Santiago area make the same sounds as Cubans when pronouncing algo or puerco, for example.

Lesley D said:

The vocabulary (excluding slang) similarities are due to many factors but the key aspect is proximity. The DR and PR are closer in proximity therefore this aspect lends itself to a shared vocabulary. Again the aspect of linguistic drift discussed by many linguists comes into place. The DR and PR share many lexical properties and Cuba usually is the country that has a unique equivalent to the DR or PR word.

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Historically, the DR and PR have had a costant flow of people in either direction.

If you read historical documents written by Dominicans and foreigners in previous times (sometimes, documents written as late as 1930s!) you will notice the constant recognition of people they met in PR and later met again in SD.

Of course, the more extensive flow of people to and from PR to DR and vice versa has become much more formalized and strict in the last 30 or 40 years, but prior to this period all the way to colonial times, these two islands were free for the human flowing, if you will.

This constant flow of people, historically at least, was due to the economic superior position DR (or colony of Santo Domingo) had compared to PR, which was settled by Ponce de Leon, precisely to have a base where the Spaniards could ensure a safer Mona Passage for all the precious cargo heading from Santo Domingo to Spain and vice-versa.

Of course, things have changed, but this inter-connection between Dominicans and Puerto Ricans could very well explain the similarities, more so than with Cuba. Of course, and as you stated, geographic proximity had much to do with this and the remainder was economic reasons.

Lesley D said:

As well, the author of the article commented on the noted speech differences in various parts of Cuba: el acento y la entonaci?n eran muy peculiares y me llamaba la atenci?n (especially the Eastern part of the island) and in Puerto Rico: los puertorrique?os como caribe?os e isle?os tambi?n tienen su manera ?nica de llamar las cosas muy diferentes a como los cubanos le llamamos en nuestra patria.

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This is very interesting.

Lesley D said:

BTW abanico really intrigues South Americans. I remember the first time one of my non-Caribbean friends heard me use that word he had know clue what it meant. Apparently this is uniquely DR/PR usage.

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Interesting!

Do you know how this word came to be in DR/PR, as oppose to the failure of this word appearing elsewhere in LA.

Lesley D said:

There are more examples but I will conclude here. In spite of the differences I am familiar with all the Cuban vocabulary and it is always good to know the equivalent word. If you wish to read the article in full here is the link.

Articulo

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Thanks for the link.

-NAL

juancarlos said:

Something else I have noticed is that Cubans from the easternmost part of the country, particularly the southern part of former Oriente province, do have a tendency to eliminate the S sound, just as Dominicans do, and sometimes place an S where it does not go. In the rest of Cuba, everyone aspires the S and it sounds like H. In Havana they are always making fun of the way people from the area around Santiago, Bayamo etc. speak.

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This could very well be due to the French or perhaps stronger African influence from nearby Haiti.

Eastern Cuba is intertwined into the history of Haiti, from the French colonist fleeing the former colony to eastern Cuba during the Haitian revolution to subsequent flows of Haitian migrants to Cuba.

juancarlos said:

I have read that in Santo Domingo they put the L instead of R but in El Cibao region they have another sound.

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The replacement of the L for the R only occurs in the Santo Domingo area.

In the east, the L is completely dropped in certain cases. For instance, the word falda would be pronounced fada in eastern areas of DR. In the Cibao it would be faida where as Santo Domingo you will hear falda, with a slight emphasis on the L.

juancarlos said:

I have noticed that Chileans from the Santiago area make the same sounds as Cubans when pronouncing algo or puerco, for example.

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This is interesting.

Do you have any idea as to why this correlation between Chile and Cuba?

-NAL

Nals, I don't think it is between Chile and Cuba per se, but instead it may be due to Andalusian influence. Perhaps settlers from the same region of Andalusia, who went to Cuba, also settled that area of Chile and brought that particular pronunciation there as well.

Lesley, I agree 100%, and yes, I believe Cubans speak the fastest. Young people speak even faster.

Nal0whs said:

This could very well be due to the French or perhaps stronger African influence from nearby Haiti.

Eastern Cuba is intertwined into the history of Haiti, from the French colonist fleeing the former colony to eastern Cuba during the Haitian revolution to subsequent flows of Haitian migrants to Cuba.




-NAL

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That is true.

Lesley D said:

Nals,

I agree with your historical assessment regarding the vocabulary similarities between DR and PR Spanish. Just to clarify regarding abanico in other countries it's used for the hand fans you see people using to cool themselves but not in the context of ventilador. The word itself is not strange in other LA countries.


LDG.

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This is what I was leading to, but you beat me!:angry: :classic:

-NAL

Althought I have nothing inteligent to add to this conversation, I think all of the above articles about speech patterns above are going to make it a bit easier for me to understand Cubans and Dominicans now. Before I would just stand there with a "what did you just say" look on my face.

Very good, insightful information!

I am thoroughly enjoying this tread, even though I am not qualified linguisticly to contibute to this.
I am just learning to speak Spanish and I am proud to be able to hold a simple conversation in Spanish.
What I find interesting is the different usages of words and I am also wondering about the political separation between the the DR, PR and Cuba. I am just wondering about the external influences on any living language. How isolated is Cuba because of their uniqueness. Or is it just me who thinks they are?

What is a borincubano??

Lesley,

Thanks for resurrecting this old thread. I enjoyed the articles very much, since I can relate to some of the difficulties "translating" my PR spanish in the DR. It is particularly difficult with fruits and vegetables, since you can find the same produce items but many times they are called by different names. The one that's been the hardest for me to describe to Dominicans has been the "coraz?n" (which according to the article is a chirimoya in Cuba). I've always described it as a fruit that looks like a "n?spero", but I've gotten blank stares as if they don't know what that is either. Some other examples not mentioned in the article are:

• (DR) - (PR) - (US)
• chinola - parcha - passion fruit
• casta?o - pana or panap?n - breadfruit
• buenpan - pana de pepita - breadfruit nut
• cajuil - pera maraya - ????
• auyama - calabaza - pumpkin

Thanks again... Carlos

100% in agreement with Lesley's description of the Spanish language in Cuba.

Mephs said:

Lesley,

Thanks for resurrecting this old thread. I enjoyed the articles very much, since I can relate to some of the difficulties "translating" my PR spanish in the DR. It is particularly difficult with fruits and vegetables, since you can find the same produce items but many times they are called by different names. The one that's been the hardest for me to describe to Dominicans has been the "coraz?n" (which according to the article is a chirimoya in Cuba). I've always described it as a fruit that looks like a "n?spero", but I've gotten blank stares as if they don't know what that is either. Some other examples not mentioned in the article are:

• (DR) - (PR) - (US)
• chinola - parcha - passion fruit
• casta?o - pana or panap?n - breadfruit
• buenpan - pana de pepita - breadfruit nut
• cajuil - pera maraya - ????
• auyama - calabaza - pumpkin

Thanks again... Carlos

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With the exception of calabaza, I do not recognize any of the other names listed here. I don't think there is breadfruit in Cuba, and I don't know what the others are.