Haitian Expulsion/AP

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Tom

Guest
Expulsions Anger Haitian President

.c The Associated Press

By MICHAEL NORTON

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti (AP) - President Rene Preval on Sunday condemned the expulsion of more than 2,000 illegal Haitian residents from the Dominican Republic over the past 10 days.

He accused the Dominican government of expelling the Haitians without allowing them fair hearings or allowing them to collect their belongings.

``We have already protested officially to the Dominican government,'' Preval said, before flying to Cuba to attend the Ibero-American Summit. He said he was demanding that deportations be carried out ``in conformity with international norms.''

The increased expulsions began Nov. 5, said Haitian National Migration Office director Carol Joseph, in an interview with The Associated Press.

Until then, the average weekly number of expulsions was about 200, he said. The Dominican military said it had sent reinforcements to the border to stop illegal crossings, but denied it had planned a sweep of Haitians residing illegally in the country.

Most of the Haitians had been recruited in December and January to work on Dominican sugar plantations. Accused of overstaying, they were rounded up in towns not on plantations.

Many are Haitians who do not have citizenship papers, but were born and raised in the Dominican Republic by illegal immigrants, Joseph said.

The expulsions follow a report issued by the Inter-American Human Rights Commission two weeks ago condemning the treatment of Haitians living in the Dominican Republic.

On Friday, more than 1,100 Haitians were expelled at Ouanaminthe, an official expulsion point on the northern border, Joseph said.

AP-NY-11-14-99 2032EST
 
B

burno

Guest
It appears that the attutude of President General Trujillo and the mass killings are alive and sick as ever. It's a short step from 1938 when thousands of Haitians living near the border of the Dominican Republic were massacred by Dominican soldiers under the orders of President General Trujillo. What would result if the many illegals in New york city were deported ? Remenber many swords have a sharp double edge to it.
 
L

L.S.

Guest
I don't want to stir another long trheat I just want to make this clear.

If you don't have a green card in the US, you are illegal therefore you can be deported if cached, and if you are cached working without a Social Security card, you will be fined and deported without the chance of never entering the United States again.

Is that a Trujillo attitude of the US Immigration Services? no. They are just enforcing US Immigration Laws, and that's what the DR Govt. is doing, Haitians with legal documents in the DR can work and live in the country, those who don't, should be deported. Just like the illegal who are cough in any other part of the world.

Thanks for listening.

And about Trujillo, it is stimated that 250,000 Dominicans died during the 30 year regine of the Dictator, they were Citizens who were legal and who's only crime was to desagree with "El Jefe".
 
L

L.S.

Guest
and another thing...

This message board should be renamed "The Pro-Hatian Anti-Dominican Republic Message Board", there's hardly a day in this board without the constant share of denigrated insults to our country and quite frankly and I am sick and I am tired of it.
 
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arcoiris

Guest
Re: and another thing...

I hear you L.S. Of course the illegal Haitians are entitled to due process, just like the US gives them: they are arrested on charges of being illegal, then put in jail so they can't escape (there are special detention centers for this, and sections of state prisons), they are given their alien identification numbers, involving the fingerprinting and photographing which remain on file, then they wait in jail for their hearing. They are not allowed to go back and get any things, but if someone can bring one suitcase full of possessions then they are allowed to take it home. This prevents the fast revolving door, as the stay in jail while waiting for a hearing sometimes makes them think twice; and if that's not enough to discouraage them then the stay in jail next time is even longer because of punishment for the second offense. This is called due process, and if the Haitians prefer that then they are entitled to it. The US uses the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearm squads to raid the farms and factories, and the state police work with them to stop obvious looking vans on the highways. How many Latin Americans were deported from the US this year? Has the number decreased? Many Latin American countries objected to the US mass deportations of the last few years, which included many Dominicans.
 
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Tom

Guest
Re: and another thing../no ATF.

ATF does not particiate in INS areas. INS and local police are in charge of these problems.

It's possible US Marshalls could be involved if criminal activity was suspect (As could ATF if a crime within their jurisdiction were suspect)in the round up, but it is the job of INS to handle illegal aliens
 
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Natasha

Guest
Re: and another thing...

L.S. I have to agree on this one.

Regards,

Natasha
 
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arcoiris

Guest
Re: ATF for sure

I don't know what happened to my other post, but it is important to know that it is definitely ATF. I talked to them myself. They said there were not enough INS staff. There was a net formed on federal, state and local levels, and there were Puerto Rican rats. The illegals were migrant farm workers. The Puerto Ricans spoke both English and Spanish whereas the illegals only spoke Spanish. The illegals came to depend on and trust the Puerto Ricans. One group of Puerto Ricans were their formans at the farm, but it was another group of Puerto Ricans who informed the authorities of their presence and movements. The ATF arrested some of them at the farms, and some on the highway. The landlords who housed them were cited for housing code violations so the illegals would be evicted. It was a very effective net that resulted in 300 deportations. Many were sent from detention in Connecticut to centers in Pennsylvania, and were separated from their friends and posssessions.
 
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Tom

Guest
Re: ATF for sure

I recall reading your post, I don't know what happened either?

ATF, FBI, US Marshall etc, any law enforcement agency with the exception of NSA, CIA or DSS could be used if authorized, but it is not the function nor normal mission of ATF to perform such task, they likely were trying to make a "statement," and or it involved many crimes other than just being in the country illegally

Tom
 
C

CES

Guest
Hi L.S.,

I'm interested in the 250,000 deaths, mainly if you can give me a reliable source for that number.

Thank you in advance,

. . . CES

PS: I think your statement on illegal aliens is right to the point

BTW my wife's grandfather is one of the 250,000 . . .
 
S

Susanne

Guest
There has been allegations, also by international observers, that Dominican soldiers have rounded up whole villages and torn apart any "green cards" - or whatever the Dominican equivalent is called - that the Haitians in the village had. After which they simply deported them as illegal immigrants.

The Dominican government deny this, the Haitians claim it is true. I really don't know what to make of it myself. If it is true, it is certainly problematic - to say the least.

Regards, Susanne
 
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CES

Guest
Re: Haitian Expulsion/AP (Susanne)

Hi Susanne,

Can you pin point a credible source for the "green card" dilemma? Just wandering if it would be possible.

Best Regards,

. . . CES
 
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Susanne

Guest
Re: Haitian Expulsion/AP (Susanne)

Dear CES,

AP quoted among others a Belgian priest that worked with the Haitians in the bateys (isn't that what they are called? I'm not quite certain). I have also seen quotes - on Reuter I think, it is a while back - from European missionaries claiming the same. Both Reuter and AP had plenty of quotes from the Haitians themselves.

But as I said: I am not sure what to make of it. Certainly there has been no official findings of anything like it. I am wondering, too.

Regards, Susanne
 
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L.S.

Guest
Hi there,

Refer to Trujillo, the Portraid of a Dictator

IS an American Author wich name I don't recall, I'll be travelling to SD this weekend, I will post the name and the author and I will try to make contact with you if you can find the book, I'll be happy to let you borrow it.

Regards
 
L

L.S.

Guest
Dear Susanne,

Up to now we've only read news from APA EFE , ABC, NBC and whatever, it is being proven that these sources have interest in denigrating the DR, for whatever reason.

I won't deny there has being maletreatment towards Haitians by Dominican authorities, but, if you think of all the Haitians who are in the country, 1.5 million officially, it's is estimated that there are more than 2.5 million, this stories fall short, Haitians are seen in the interception begging for change, there are entire Haitian villages in our side of the island, and you may say why the Haitians and not Europeans?, well I can't imagine 2.5 million Americans or Canadians living illegally in the DR, when you have such high numbers of a particular ethnic group, this kinds of situations are spected.

Haitians are to the DR what Mexicans are to the United States, I am sorry to put the US as an example, but I don't know anything about Canadian, British or French immigration laws.

And I think is very Hippocratic to say we are terrible people because we are deporting Haitians when we have seen American police officers beating Mexicans for crossing the border.

This problem should be approach seriously and agressibly, we can't simply allow all Haitians to move here because it would be impossible for us to deal we such high numbers of people who will be needing medical attention and food and services that the govt. can't efficiently provided to the people who they are obligated to provided, the tax paying Dominicans who deserve a better chance.
 
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Susanne

Guest
Dear LS,

I am certainly not saying that Dominicans are terrible people. Neither do I think that the Dominican Republic should solve all the problems that Haiti undeniably has. I realize that the Dominican Republic has only limited resources and plenty of economical challenges of its own.

Personally, I think that the international society should do way more to help Haiti, so Haitians wouldn't have to leave in order to have hope for the future. That should take some of the pressure off the Dominican borders.

However, I think it should at least be considered whether Haitian families, that have lived for many years, maybe generations, in the Dominican Republic, should be given citizenship there.

Regards, Susanne
 
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Susanne

Guest
Re: Haitian Expulsion/AP - Amnesty International

Oops, I forgot to add this:

There are allegations of the kind as well in the latest (1999) report from Amnesty International:

"There were further reports of torture, including rape, and ill-treatment of Haitian immigrants by Dominican soldiers during round-ups for deportation. In August immigration officials and soldiers reportedly raped several women, including a 14-year-old girl, at a sugar-cane work camp. In November, in two separate incidents, two Haitians were shot dead by Dominican soldiers as they tried to escape deportation. Thousands of Haitian immigrants were repatriated throughout the year, including some living in the country legally. Haitians were often deported without their residence papers being verified, in contravention of their rights."

Full report on www.amnesty.org. Chose library and then search for country.

Regards, Susanne
 
C

CES

Guest
Re: Haitian Expulsion/AP (L.S.)

Hi L.S.,

Thank you for your post and will you please send me your email address.

Regards . . . CES
 
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Natasha

Guest
Trujillo

Hi CES,

Indeed Trujillo's atrocities have been well documented. The number of Dominicans that were killed and "disappeared" is astonishing to say the least. I would be willing to bet that there are very few families in the DR which were not affected one way or the other by this beast, certainly mine was one of them (as you know).

Regards, Natasha
 
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arcoiris

Guest
Re: "allegations"

I always watch for the use of the word "allegations" and "reports", and I notice when they are used and when they are not. Susanne uses these words appropriately. I'm not sure most people are so diligent in this regard. In situations like this there are always a lot of allegations. During the US race riots one of the main tasks was to control such rumors. A lot of this reporting is inflammatory, and it is really hard to tell what the facts are when rumors and half-truths fly and get exaggerated with each repitition. Responsible journalists don't publicize stuff that they are really unsure of, except, as Susanne does, as allegations which very well may not be true, but are worth looking into.