Who do you consider Domincan?

Kidd Creole

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Thanks to Delt for the Idea

would you consider those who Migrated from Santo Domingo to Louisiana before the Creation of the Dominican Republic, Dominican or of Dominican Descent?

Do you consider the wealthy free Blacks that moved to Samana from Philadelphia in the 19th Century? African-Americans or Dominicans?


Lets hear some answers..
 
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Ricardo900

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Jul 12, 2004
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Kidd Creole said:
Thanks to Delt for the Idea

would you consider those who Migrated from Santo Domingo to Louisiana before the Creation of the Dominican Republic, Dominican or of Dominican Descent?

Do you consider the wealthy free Blacks that moved to Samana from Philadelphia in the 19th Century? African-Americans or Dominicans?


Lets hear some answers..
If you were born in a country, then your nationality is from that country, it does not change just because you moved to another country and receive citizenship. If I move to germany and create a family overthere, I will always be american, but my children who were born there will be germans. Race is not a determining factor.
 

Criss Colon

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What Is The Point???

I would "consider" anyone who says that they are "Dominican" as a Dominican!
When you start to "Label" People,soon you begin to stereotype them,then to
think of the as "different",then you can discriminate against them!
"Labels" are for jars,not People!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 

Mirador

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Criss Colon said:
I would "consider" anyone who says that they are "Dominican" as a Dominican!
When you start to "Label" People,soon you begin to stereotype them,then to
think of the as "different",then you can discriminate against them!
"Labels" are for jars,not People!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC


I'm from 'Oklahoma' ;-)
 

miguel

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Jul 2, 2003
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Here we go again!

Kidd Creole said:
Thanks to Delt for the Idea

would you consider those who Migrated from Santo Domingo to Louisiana before the Creation of the Dominican Republic, Dominican or of Dominican Descent?

Do you consider the wealthy free Blacks that moved to Samana from Philadelphia in the 19th Century? African-Americans or Dominicans?


Lets hear some answers..
If you are over 5 years of age, you already know the answer to your question:

You are from where you were born.

There's no such things as "I was born in the DR but I am American because I love the US".

In my case, I was born in the DR, raised in the US, became a citizen many moons ago, love the US equally if not more than the DR, but I am Dominican.
Who cares if I care more for one nationality than the other, I am, and always will be from where I was born.

Have you notice the US Passport?:

When you become a Citizen, there's a section inquiring about "place of birth".

Trust me, if you were born in the US, that space will be left blank but if were were not, that space would say where you were born. See, that's another way of saying: "you are a foreigner that bacame an American Citizen".

Now, go look at your passpost and if in the section where it says "place of birth", it says "Guam", then you are from Guam. If it's blank, that means that you were born in the US and you are an American. As simple as that!.
 

bienamor

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Apr 23, 2004
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Well

Kidd Creole said:
Thanks to Delt for the Idea

would you consider those who Migrated from Santo Domingo to Louisiana before the Creation of the Dominican Republic, Dominican or of Dominican Descent?

Do you consider the wealthy free Blacks that moved to Samana from Philadelphia in the 19th Century? African-Americans or Dominicans?


Lets hear some answers..

The blacks that went to Samana, would have been Americans, and their Children would be Dominicans! Passport's do not have a classification of African-American, not that the term was in use at that time anyway. Or Passports for that matter

As far as the people that went to Louisiana before the creation of the DR.
Santo Domingo, or Saint Domingue at that time?????
 

Stodgord

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Nov 19, 2004
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I think he means, how the general population view those African Americans that settled in Samana many moons ago. In other words, are these African American decendants viewed as the Haitians are?

To tell you the truth, I didn't know that African Americans populated that region until recently. I left the DR when I was 12 and I am now 33. Same thing with the cocolos of San Pedro de Macorix, but for some reason I knew of the Haitians. The only group that will always be seen as outsiders are the Haitians. Everyone else are absorbed into the society.
 

nanapatekar

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I am originating in Morocco (north Africa), I was not born there, and don't go there often, but I feel Moroccan at 100%...
and for Europeans, a foreigner remains a foreigner, we are never completely integrate.
 

Dolores1

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Ricardo900 said:
If you were born in a country, then your nationality is from that country, it does not change just because you moved to another country and receive citizenship. If I move to germany and create a family overthere, I will always be american, but my children who were born there will be germans. Race is not a determining factor.


Note that Dominicans born in Italy to Dominican parents will not be regarded as Italians. Place of birth is not always the deciding factor. Depends on the country.
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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nanapatekar said:
I am originating in Morocco (north Africa), I was not born there, and don't go there often, but I feel Moroccan at 100%...
and for Europeans, a foreigner remains a foreigner, we are never completely integrate.
Interesting you mention this.

It's also true that in Europe (especially in France) politicians and locals alike love to call north African migrants "Moroccans", despite the fact that most arabs in France are from Tunisia, Lybia, and Algeria, not to mention that they feel offended when they are referred to simply as "Moroccans".

It's also interesting how arabs are often called beurs, though the word appears to not have any negative connotation among the arab communities.

It's also true that in Europe, even if you are born there, if you don't look white or are white but have an accent that is not local, they will ask you the following set of questions, without exceptions:

1. Where are you from?

2. (If you were born there, the next question is this) Where did you parents came from?

3. (If they were born there, then it follows to this) What is your ancestry?

At some point they will find a "foreign" element and from that point forward you are a member of that "foreign" element as oppose to being British, French, Italian or such.

This is similar to the Haitian situation in the DR, which makes me doubt any "advise" a British, French, Spaniard, Italian, Germany or any other European tells Dominicans on what to do regarding the Haitian dilemma, when they themselves come from countries that have the exact same problem with no solutions in sight!

It's similar to a folk healer telling people what aspirin to take in order to alleviate the headache!

-NALs
 
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NALs

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Stodgord said:
I think he means, how the general population view those African Americans that settled in Samana many moons ago. In other words, are these African American decendants viewed as the Haitians are?

To tell you the truth, I didn't know that African Americans populated that region until recently. I left the DR when I was 12 and I am now 33. Same thing with the cocolos of San Pedro de Macorix, but for some reason I knew of the Haitians. The only group that will always be seen as outsiders are the Haitians. Everyone else are absorbed into the society.
With the case of those African-Americans, their decendants are Dominicans.

Of course, they have a strong regional identity and much like Cibae?os, they perceive themselves first Samanuenos and second Dominicans.

The issue with Haitians dates to the uneasiness the two countries have been subjected to for most of both countries existence. There used to be so much distrust that before the 1920s, Dominicans preferred blacks from the British Caribbean than from Haiti to work the sugar cane fields, despite Haitians being cheaper and much more easily accessible.

Only during the American occupation in the beginning of the 20th century did it became "fashionable" to use Haitian migrant labor, although this was first forced upon by the American forces and companies that gobbled up prime agricultural land for sugar cultivation. After the invasion, the system continued and with the progressive deterioration of Haiti (with the complete collapse of its once vibrant middle class during the Duvalier years) the issue of Haitians in Dominican soil become ever more concerning.

Today, its common practice and widespread the use of Haitian labor in Dominican soil. The next few years will be interesting since the primary employer of Haitians (sugar cane fields) are machenizing their operations thus lowering their demand for cheap labor.

For this reason, there is a push to make the clear the migration laws and political status of Haitians born within DR and those who migrate for work, study, etc.

BTW, anyone who has Dominican citizenship is a Dominican. Citizenship grants a person equal rights in everything to a native born Dominican, thus if you got a citizenship you are a Dominican. As for being a Dominican culturally, that is a different matter, but in its most basic form, citizenship of whatever country defies the country you belong to.

If someone cause you harm while visiting another country, the consulate or embassy that you are suppose to report to is not the embassy of your birth nation, but the embassy of the country from which you hold citizenship status.

-NALs
 

Mirador

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NALs said:
Interesting you mention this.... ... It's similar to a folk healer telling people what aspirin to take in order to alleviate the headache! -NALs

Not similar at all! We folk healers don't prescribe aspirin or any other pharmaceuticals to alleviate a headache. And by the way, there's only one aspirin, and it is acetysalicylic acid...


-
 

Papo718

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Kidd kreyol and company are you sure you read that history book right? all right now i'm just a little confused now. where do you guys get your information from school in the DR or from personal study? Do you read history books or just learn from what people say? KIdd kreyol? nals? and others?
 

Rick Snyder

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Quote by Miguel;

"Trust me, if you were born in the US, that space will be left blank but if were were not, that space would say where you were born. See, that's another way of saying: "you are a foreigner that bacame an American Citizen"."

Sorry to burst your bubble but I'm American and have been for 58 years and my passport says, (Place of birth - New York USA). My son, who was born here, passport says (Place of birth - Dominican Republic).

Rick
 

indiana16

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To me a Dominican is someone who was born in the DR, and pratices the customs and culture of DR.

But then again if you feel dominican at heart and love and practice dominican customs and culture more than your own then in a way you're also dominican.
 

Ricardo900

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Dolores said:
Note that Dominicans born in Italy to Dominican parents will not be regarded as Italians. Place of birth is not always the deciding factor. Depends on the country.
Noted,
I guess you can't tell certain countries how to gauge their criteria in regards to nationality. simply stated "different strokes for different folks"
 

Ricardo900

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Rick Snyder said:
Quote by Miguel;

"Trust me, if you were born in the US, that space will be left blank but if were were not, that space would say where you were born. See, that's another way of saying: "you are a foreigner that bacame an American Citizen"."

Sorry to burst your bubble but I'm American and have been for 58 years and my passport says, (Place of birth - New York USA). My son, who was born here, passport says (Place of birth - Dominican Republic).

Rick
I have to second that,
Possessed a passport for over 20 years, New York USA.
 

miguel

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Indeed!

Rick Snyder said:
Sorry to burst your bubble but I'm American and have been for 58 years and my passport says, (Place of birth - New York USA). My son, who was born here, passport says (Place of birth - Dominican Republic).

Rick
You are absolutely correct, just checked my daughter's passport and it says, also, New York USA.

When you say that your son's passaport says "DR" I gather that he was born in the DR, correct?. Well, if he was, then the passport is correct.

Again, a person is from where they were born. I mean, what's so difficult about that?.
 

samanasuenos

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Oct 5, 2005
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Thank you for asking a question which also served to inform some folks about Samana's Greens and Johnsons and so on as well as the Doms in Louisiana. Good job.

However, the question is sorta, I dunno .... Let's see. What DO I want?

Well, I would rather that you had asked the more titilating question about THE FIRST GENERATION OFFSPRING of both groups - born in the "new country":

"How did they label themselves?" (Dominican, American/USA, other)

You could have us bet.

The research it and tell us about it.

Then see if we agree/disagree with the choices that they made when labeling themselves.

P.S. Does ayone know .... I am so curious .... how did the Dominicans in Louisiana fit in with the Quadroons and their balls and such? I know that French was popular with Quadroons, but Spanish? Not so much, right? Calling all history buffs.
 

samanasuenos

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Looky what I found, because you got me all riled up....

I did some searching on the net and found a seemingly unrelated article. If you read through to the end, you will find a nugget that expresses my answer to your question.


"Will: This is a highly controversial and sensitive issue.
I did a research paper last year (for a sensitivity training seminar I gave
to young aspiring Latinas) that yielded the following article published in
Unity First News.


"Hispano"? "Latino"? What is it in a Name?

Rita Gonz?lez for Unity First News, September 1998

There has been great controversy over the "correct" terminology to refer to the ethnic group comprised of mainly Spanish speaking individuals, thus we tend to generalize under one particular nomenclature. While proper for the purpose of achieving effective communication, appropriately generalizing is a major challenge. Many resent the act of generalization, but oftentimes it is a necessary evil. Generalizing serves both a practical purpose and a conceptual purpose. The first enables us to communicate more clearly; the later enables us to make comparisons and contrasts in order to gain insight. Now, For the practical purpose of communication, how do we appropriately generalize, while maintaining a "politically correct" posture? What is it in a name anyway? Why the "big deal"?

First of all, we must recognize that when we refer to individuals of Spanish speaking background, either born in such a country or descendents of, we are not speaking necessarily of one unified people:

1. There is not one but many such countries and cultures in the United States, unique in their own right.

2. There are many of such individuals residing in the United States, either recently arrived or whose ancestry in the continent pre-dates British influence and/or U.S. citizenry. (In the 1300's the Aztecs had been trading fur and other items with "Native Americans"; Juan Ponce de Leon arrived in Florida in 1513; the city of St. Augustine, oldest permanent settlement in the U.S. was founded in 1565 by Pedro M?ndez Avil?s (fifty-five years before the pilgrims set out from England in the Mayflower! ).

3. Although "unified" by language and historic roots, regional differences abound in the Spanish language, influenced by pre-Columbus natives: Maya, Aztec, Inca, Arawac, Carib, Ciboney, other.

4. Non-Spaniard immigrants greatly influenced regional cultural evolution, traditions and language (hence the Italian influence in Argentina, French, British, Dutch and African influence in the Caribbean, Asian in Central America, etc.).

Because of their very distinct histories and ancestries, many individuals feel uncomfortable being referred to by a generic term - "Latino" or "Hispanic". "Hispanic" is the term of choice of the United States Government, a choice of term originated by Census Bureau. "Hispanic" defines the population in terms of its Iberian ancestry. The term "Latino" is the term of choice by the actual population, as it refers to the root of the language - Latin. It can also have broad applicability, inclusive of Brazilian, Portuguese and (sometimes) Italian descent.

Now what? We have established that generalization is important for communication. As an enabler, "Latino" has broader applicability and is better suited for use in non-government . "Hispanic" is the preferred term of "Government Language": "Hispanic Heritage Month", "Hispanic Employment Program". Neither term is intended to be pejorative; they are simply mechanisms for enabling communication. However, if you are dealing with individuals of such ethnic background (employees, employers, customers or neighbors), as a rule of thumb:

1. Listen to how people refer to themselves.

2. Individuals will normally refer to themselves in accordance with their country of origin: "Mexicano (a - denotes gender, female)", "Cubano(a,)", "Puertorrique?o (a)", "Dominicano (a)".

3. When in doubt, ask.

4. If you need to generalize, keep the conversation in context and be sensitive to innuendoes or associating negative connotations to a specific group (stereotyping) .

How you generalize or how you refer to someone is more than semantics or political correctness. And it is certainly more than just a name. When you address someone using the appropriate name or title, you are acknowledging their culture, identity, and personal accomplishments. You achieve respect for individuality, a trait that should not be overlooked in achieving effective communication. As food for thought, hold the same amount of consideration for others as you would have afforded to yourself, should you be traveling abroad?


RITA M. GONZALEZ"

end of quote..........