I for one dont mind paying the average Dominican Cop a few hundred Pesos to take care of a problem for me . These guys are way underpaid and I can tell you now that i wouldnt want to be running around on a Moto chasing guys with Machetes and pistolas for all the money in America let alone the pittance that they are paid. I am certain like with any proffession (Especially Politicians of all countries) there are abuses but the average cop that I have come across is even reluctant to accept 2 or 300 pesos for a job well done,. Have I just been lucky to date ? Before you rip them apart. Drive a mile on THEIR Moto ........
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Police and Bribes
To Pay or not to Pay
Point well taken. I paid a cop some money just so that he could get on a "motoconcho" and go to San Francisco to get a police report for me. They don't have any means of transportation where we live.
I don't approve, however, of the police stopping your vehicle for the sole purpose of extorting money from whoever looks foreign and this seems to be a common practice in Santo Domingo. It happens to my friends every time they drive to the city.
Juniper
Point well taken. I paid a cop some money just so that he could get on a "motoconcho" and go to San Francisco to get a police report for me. They don't have any means of transportation where we live.
I don't approve, however, of the police stopping your vehicle for the sole purpose of extorting money from whoever looks foreign and this seems to be a common practice in Santo Domingo. It happens to my friends every time they drive to the city.
Juniper
Juniper said:Point well taken. I paid a cop some money just so that he could get on a "motoconcho" and go to San Francisco to get a police report for me. They don't have any means of transportation where we live.
I don't approve, however, of the police stopping your vehicle for the sole purpose of extorting money from whoever looks foreign and this seems to be a common practice in Santo Domingo. It happens to my friends every time they drive to the city.
Juniper
It's not just Santo Dom. that they stop people for handouts, it's everywhere,
I've been stopped many times and refuse to add to the problem.
What works for me is that I pretend not to speak or understand Spanish and they usually get frustrated and wave me on.
If they do finally get me to understand that they want money, I just say I have nothing, I have to go to the bank.
So far so good.
What are you talking about!!
In case you don't know, IMO, a if a cop chases ONE guy "with machetes and pistolas", that same cop have stopped a few hundreds cars for a "traffic violation", meaning, looking for a bribe.
Also, in case you don't know, MOST cops DO NOT EVEN wait for you to bribe them, SOME, FLAT OUT, ask for a bribe.
There's something called sel-respect and pride. It does not matter what type of job you have in order for someone to have both.
Trust me, I rather drive 1,000 miles "on THEIR Moto" and not WALK 1 mile on the feets of those that, while being paid pennies, do not ask for a bribe!.
Ask the ones that you know if they rather leave their MOTOS behind to go work at any place else for a little more money. Of course not. To SOME, that "MOTO" not only represents power but it also represents BRIBERY!.
Also, in case you don't know, MANY cops want to become cops NOT for the love of being a cop, BUT because they know that there's a lot of money to be made by taking bribes.
Have you heard of a guy, on his way to San Cristobal, asking a cop for directions when all of a sudden the cop, after a few minutes, ask the guy for his "licencia" after he noticed that the person asking for directions was on vacation?. When the tourist asked why, he said, flat out, "porque necesito algo para comer hoy" (while rubbing his thumb and index finger). Oh wait, you can not know that since the guy asking for directions was ME!.
Are you are saying that it's ok to bribe someone just because they have an underpaid job?. Give me a break!.jojo2130 said:I for one dont mind paying the average Dominican Cop a few hundred Pesos to take care of a problem for me . These guys are way underpaid and I can tell you now that i wouldnt want to be running around on a Moto chasing guys with Machetes and pistolas for all the money in America let alone the pittance that they are paid. I am certain like with any proffession (Especially Politicians of all countries) there are abuses but the average cop that I have come across is even reluctant to accept 2 or 300 pesos for a job well done,. Have I just been lucky to date ? Before you rip them apart. Drive a mile on THEIR Moto ........
In case you don't know, IMO, a if a cop chases ONE guy "with machetes and pistolas", that same cop have stopped a few hundreds cars for a "traffic violation", meaning, looking for a bribe.
Also, in case you don't know, MOST cops DO NOT EVEN wait for you to bribe them, SOME, FLAT OUT, ask for a bribe.
There's something called sel-respect and pride. It does not matter what type of job you have in order for someone to have both.
Trust me, I rather drive 1,000 miles "on THEIR Moto" and not WALK 1 mile on the feets of those that, while being paid pennies, do not ask for a bribe!.
Ask the ones that you know if they rather leave their MOTOS behind to go work at any place else for a little more money. Of course not. To SOME, that "MOTO" not only represents power but it also represents BRIBERY!.
Also, in case you don't know, MANY cops want to become cops NOT for the love of being a cop, BUT because they know that there's a lot of money to be made by taking bribes.
Have you heard of a guy, on his way to San Cristobal, asking a cop for directions when all of a sudden the cop, after a few minutes, ask the guy for his "licencia" after he noticed that the person asking for directions was on vacation?. When the tourist asked why, he said, flat out, "porque necesito algo para comer hoy" (while rubbing his thumb and index finger). Oh wait, you can not know that since the guy asking for directions was ME!.
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Miquel, while I appreciate what you are saying, really what in our society makes tipping the waitress okay for a meal well served but not the cop for a job well done. I do NOT agree with the stopping the cars and grabbing, what I am talking about really is the BEAT COPS that patrol the barrios and confront the Tigures etc etc.. You have to admit, that is a nasty profession for ANY salary in this country.
As for POWER, that comes with the job for any cop on any force in any country. Its a Necessity, to command and demand respect and fear. Of course there are the abusers but we are much more abused by our lieing politicians in all countries that grant themselves perks and vote themselves extravagant salary hikes . Look at New Orleans police department.
I am not saying that the dominican system is perfect just that there aer cops out there that are earning their salary and the mtips they collect from the local businesses in many cases are well deserved.
At least the cops ask and you have the ability to refuse. The politicians just inform you after the fact !
As for POWER, that comes with the job for any cop on any force in any country. Its a Necessity, to command and demand respect and fear. Of course there are the abusers but we are much more abused by our lieing politicians in all countries that grant themselves perks and vote themselves extravagant salary hikes . Look at New Orleans police department.
I am not saying that the dominican system is perfect just that there aer cops out there that are earning their salary and the mtips they collect from the local businesses in many cases are well deserved.
At least the cops ask and you have the ability to refuse. The politicians just inform you after the fact !
But.....
How can you compare a waitress' tip with bribing someone. It's beyond me. They are being paid for doing a job. If they have done a "job well done", let the police department give them a promotion or a raise.
I have no problem in tipping a cop, or a mailman, or a milkman, or a waterman, as long as I do it when there's an ocassion, like Christmas.
If people start bribing anybody that is doing some type of service, soon we will land in the "poor house".
You are misunderstanding something: it's their job to serve the public!.jojo2130 said:Miquel, while I appreciate what you are saying, really what in our society makes tipping the waitress okay for a meal well served but not the cop for a job well done. I do NOT agree with the stopping the cars and grabbing, what I am talking about really is the BEAT COPS that patrol the barrios and confront the Tigures etc etc.. You have to admit, that is a nasty profession for ANY salary in this country.
As for POWER, that comes with the job for any cop on any force in any country. Its a Necessity, to command and demand respect and fear. Of course there are the abusers but we are much more abused by our lieing politicians in all countries that grant themselves perks and vote themselves extravagant salary hikes . Look at New Orleans police department.
I am not saying that the dominican system is perfect just that there aer cops out there that are earning their salary and the mtips they collect from the local businesses in many cases are well deserved.
At least the cops ask and you have the ability to refuse. The politicians just inform you after the fact !
How can you compare a waitress' tip with bribing someone. It's beyond me. They are being paid for doing a job. If they have done a "job well done", let the police department give them a promotion or a raise.
I have no problem in tipping a cop, or a mailman, or a milkman, or a waterman, as long as I do it when there's an ocassion, like Christmas.
If people start bribing anybody that is doing some type of service, soon we will land in the "poor house".
With public servants bribing can be a two way street as has been seen many times in the past. When the criminals offer more then you, then you don't have any policing at all.
Sorry OP but I have to disagree with you on this one. If we are talking about giving money to a police officer for a "job well done" then I think you can hardly call it a bribe.
A tip perhaps but not a bribe.
But either way, public servants have one inherent function - to serve the public and I don't feel they should be monetarily rewarded for it other than the paycheck the receive. The police officers in the DR receive a free benefit that most other workers do not - health insurance. So why do they need extra money for doing their job?
Nobody here has been forced into public service - joining the police force is strictly voluntary - and I'm pretty sure they all know that they will not become millionaires from their salary alone.
I just can't grasp the concept that we should reward people for simply doing their jobs.
Now, for the dirty cops demanding bribes - shame on them. They know better. I think cleaning up the police force should be high on this country's political agenda.
A tip perhaps but not a bribe.
But either way, public servants have one inherent function - to serve the public and I don't feel they should be monetarily rewarded for it other than the paycheck the receive. The police officers in the DR receive a free benefit that most other workers do not - health insurance. So why do they need extra money for doing their job?
Nobody here has been forced into public service - joining the police force is strictly voluntary - and I'm pretty sure they all know that they will not become millionaires from their salary alone.
I just can't grasp the concept that we should reward people for simply doing their jobs.
Now, for the dirty cops demanding bribes - shame on them. They know better. I think cleaning up the police force should be high on this country's political agenda.
Exactly!
Care to know why some thieves can rob anybody and get away with it? because they are bribing those that are supposed to be "protecting" the public!.
That is exactly what SOME of these people do not know. A lot of the time, the crooks are the ones bribing the cops.ricktoronto said:With public servants bribing can be a two way street as has been seen many times in the past. When the criminals offer more then you, then you don't have any policing at all.
Care to know why some thieves can rob anybody and get away with it? because they are bribing those that are supposed to be "protecting" the public!.
But thats exactly it
Point well taken ............I agree that the long term system doesnt work.....
The cops join knowing that they will "gain" money from other sources and the Government underpays them knowing that as well. I am 100% sure that it happens as you have described BUT I have met a few that DO take pride in their jobs. Have refused money and have given me invaluable advice.
Again i reiterate, there are good and bad cops and in some countries that percentage of bad is higher than others but my experiences thus far have been good. Even the traffic stops near cabarete have not yet cost me a peso. And I have been Checked 7 or 8 times
Point well taken ............I agree that the long term system doesnt work.....
The cops join knowing that they will "gain" money from other sources and the Government underpays them knowing that as well. I am 100% sure that it happens as you have described BUT I have met a few that DO take pride in their jobs. Have refused money and have given me invaluable advice.
Again i reiterate, there are good and bad cops and in some countries that percentage of bad is higher than others but my experiences thus far have been good. Even the traffic stops near cabarete have not yet cost me a peso. And I have been Checked 7 or 8 times
It amazes me, you yanks come into a country then try to dominate it..........and Im not even talking about Iraq.
If you want to overpower a nation, such as the Dominican Republic, and are not prepared to openly pay your hosts for sevices rendered, then go back home, and dont whinge about it.
Your prepared to overthrough a country in the name of freedom, (disguised as lets get there oil) (but not poor countries such as some south african countries I will not mention, because they have no oil) and then complain at giving tips or payments for an easy life.
Spend your pensions in your own country (where you left by the way) or just shut up.
If you want to overpower a nation, such as the Dominican Republic, and are not prepared to openly pay your hosts for sevices rendered, then go back home, and dont whinge about it.
Your prepared to overthrough a country in the name of freedom, (disguised as lets get there oil) (but not poor countries such as some south african countries I will not mention, because they have no oil) and then complain at giving tips or payments for an easy life.
Spend your pensions in your own country (where you left by the way) or just shut up.
ximo said:It amazes me, you yanks come into a country then try to dominate it..........and Im not even talking about Iraq.
If you want to overpower a nation, such as the Dominican Republic, and are not prepared to openly pay your hosts for sevices rendered, then go back home, and dont whinge about it.
Your prepared to overthrough a country in the name of freedom, (disguised as lets get there oil) (but not poor countries such as some south african countries I will not mention, because they have no oil) and then complain at giving tips or payments for an easy life.
Spend your pensions in your own country (where you left by the way) or just shut up.
Overpower? Services rendered?
Where do they find these people???
I'd love to see what would happen to the economy if every last one of the "Yanks" left forever - believe it or not, the money foreigners spend in the DR has quite a bit of an economic impact.
But sorry, I don't want to "whinge."
ximo said:It amazes me, you yanks come into a country then try to dominate it..........and Im not even talking about Iraq.
If you want to overpower a nation, such as the Dominican Republic, and are not prepared to openly pay your hosts for sevices rendered, then go back home, and dont whinge about it.
Your prepared to overthrough a country in the name of freedom, (disguised as lets get there oil) (but not poor countries such as some south african countries I will not mention, because they have no oil) and then complain at giving tips or payments for an easy life.
Spend your pensions in your own country (where you left by the way) or just shut up.
Seems you have something to say and was looking for an opportunity to say it. "Taking over a country" and a discussion on police taking a bribe is a long jump. Tranquilo, por favor.
Maybe your right, got something off my chest.
I?m a brit and am appalled and disgusted at what we have done to countries like Spain where we take our cash, then turn what was once a beautiful country and spoil it.
Lets be truthful here, the money ex pats take with them is housing price rise money. Hardly hard earned blistered hand cash. Then we invade their country, where99.9% of the indiginous population did not have the luck or good fortune to be able to tap into the housing market and enjoy the rest of their lives relatively worry free, and we expect them to conform to our way of doing business.
Of course backhanders to the police and authorities are wrong, but its just another way of doing business and spreading your good fortune with others.
Before we condemn what these countries do on a micro level we should look at what our countries do on a macro level, then decide which is worse.
I know what my country has done to spain and the spanish people (who should be damn grateful that our tourist pounds are giving them jobs, I should say so), it seems a shame that that attitude seems to be the same with you guys on the people of the Dominican Republic. Long live our special friendship, we earned it mutually through house price rises.
When we leave our lands to retire to poorer countries who are more than grateful to recieve our gotten gains we should never forget how fortunate we have been.Ahhhhhhhh
I?m a brit and am appalled and disgusted at what we have done to countries like Spain where we take our cash, then turn what was once a beautiful country and spoil it.
Lets be truthful here, the money ex pats take with them is housing price rise money. Hardly hard earned blistered hand cash. Then we invade their country, where99.9% of the indiginous population did not have the luck or good fortune to be able to tap into the housing market and enjoy the rest of their lives relatively worry free, and we expect them to conform to our way of doing business.
Of course backhanders to the police and authorities are wrong, but its just another way of doing business and spreading your good fortune with others.
Before we condemn what these countries do on a micro level we should look at what our countries do on a macro level, then decide which is worse.
I know what my country has done to spain and the spanish people (who should be damn grateful that our tourist pounds are giving them jobs, I should say so), it seems a shame that that attitude seems to be the same with you guys on the people of the Dominican Republic. Long live our special friendship, we earned it mutually through house price rises.
When we leave our lands to retire to poorer countries who are more than grateful to recieve our gotten gains we should never forget how fortunate we have been.Ahhhhhhhh
ximo said:When we leave our lands to retire to poorer countries who are more than grateful to recieve our gotten gains we should never forget how fortunate we have been.Ahhhhhhhh
I liked this post much better than your previous one.
Almost all of the expats I know who live in this wonderful country do realize how very fortunate they are. And yes, there are some who are pompous enough to expect the local population to become more "westernized" and I dislike these people. Truth be told, these types of people are a pain in the as* in any country, not just the DR.
But still, I don't agree that expats should be obligated to tip and bribe just because they happen to be foreigners living here. Let's turn it around for a second - what if Americans went around proclaiming that all foreigners and immigrants should be subjected to the practice of bribing and tipping public servants? Can you imagine the backlash?
I love the DR, I am truly blessed to live here, I try to give back to the community as much as I can but I will not pay people off just because I have white skin. In fact, I do my damndest not to associate with anybody who makes distinctions based upon skin color whether it be white, black or pink.
In today's EL NACIONAL, there's a story about a Puerto Plata judge, who tried to extort money from an expats in order to rule in his favor. The expat went to the DA's office and denounced the operation, which led to the arrest of the judge, who should get an 8 years sentence if convicted.
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ximo said:Then we invade their country ... and we expect them to conform to our way of doing business.
You will find many here that are not even closely in the category that you describe.
Maybe I used the wrong word
Maybe "Bribe" is the wrong word. The way I felt is that my "case" got bumped to the top of the heap. For a few hundred Pesos and was resolved quickly and I regained what I had "lost" .
Think about when American or Canadian police go on strike...... for more pay . Does that indicate that they don't take pride in their jobs? I think not.
Dominican police (the type that I am talking about) work day and night in the back barrios where we wouldnt dare to go WITH a loaded shotgun and a team of bodyguards. They network, get a handle on their beat and are in the know.
Why do we have to be so idealistic? On one hand we accept that we have adopted this beautiful 3rd world country but on the other hand we want them to live to 1st world standards. (Which in some cases even 1st world cops don;t E.G. NEW ORLEANS or NYPD or does the name Rodney mean anything to you ? ) You can't have your cake and eat it too. All I am saying is that the average Beat Cop is working his beat to provide some semblance of order and why shouldn't he be properly compensated for his efforts. Its the Dominican way. Accept it as you do the beautiful beaches and the beautiful ummmmmmmmmm palm trees
I agree that Bribery and accepting bribes from the BAD element to turn a blind eye is wrong but I still don't think that is the rule but is more the exception.
My 2 Pesos worth
Maybe "Bribe" is the wrong word. The way I felt is that my "case" got bumped to the top of the heap. For a few hundred Pesos and was resolved quickly and I regained what I had "lost" .
Think about when American or Canadian police go on strike...... for more pay . Does that indicate that they don't take pride in their jobs? I think not.
Dominican police (the type that I am talking about) work day and night in the back barrios where we wouldnt dare to go WITH a loaded shotgun and a team of bodyguards. They network, get a handle on their beat and are in the know.
Why do we have to be so idealistic? On one hand we accept that we have adopted this beautiful 3rd world country but on the other hand we want them to live to 1st world standards. (Which in some cases even 1st world cops don;t E.G. NEW ORLEANS or NYPD or does the name Rodney mean anything to you ? ) You can't have your cake and eat it too. All I am saying is that the average Beat Cop is working his beat to provide some semblance of order and why shouldn't he be properly compensated for his efforts. Its the Dominican way. Accept it as you do the beautiful beaches and the beautiful ummmmmmmmmm palm trees
I agree that Bribery and accepting bribes from the BAD element to turn a blind eye is wrong but I still don't think that is the rule but is more the exception.
My 2 Pesos worth