DR/US immigration issues

Mr_DR said:

The US is trying to pass up a bill where they will be slapping illegal aliens with a felony for entering this country illegaly.

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Hopefully, it will never get passed. This is an election year and the politicians are making a lot of noise.

Mr_DR said:

These people will be very scare to come out and their kids will not be allowed to even go to school.

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It won't change anything regarding the ability of their children to attend school.

Mr_DR said:

The US is trying to pass up a bill where they will be slapping illegal aliens with a felony for entering this country illegaly. These people will be very scare to come out and their kids will not be allowed to even go to school.

I wonder what would've they said if DR was the one doing this with the Haitians?

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One, it won't pass. Two, even if it did, it wouldn't solve the illegal immigration problem here in the states. You can't suture a wound with a bandaid.

Pred..: Stalemate

isnt it illegal to sneak into the dr with out the goverment knowing you are coming in? isnt it illegal for an american to sneak into the DR and live here permanently without the goverment knowing?

what do you think the DR goverment will do to an american who sneaks in and stays for 2 or 3 years before he gets caught?

send his kids to college for him???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

they make laws for reasons.... there are issues that people who already live in america want addressed.....the quality of life is getting diluted !!!!!!!!!!

people have to accept the fact that many americans dont want millions of immigrants coming here.

any country can make a law that doesnt allows aliens in their country..ITS their country they can make those laws if they want!!!!!!!!!!

people who have broken the law, risk getting punished..why is that so hard to understand?

bob

Bob...I'm on your side. First, it is a lot of politican talk in an election year. Second, it is a money issue. Immigrants, illegal or legal require products and services that grow corporations. Increase the population you grow the company. I think the real truth is that most polititicans sold out a long time ago. Third, how can you lasso a bull without a rope? If you make laws and fail to stop the border stampede what good do the laws do. It is possible to build a structure that would stop illegals from coming across in the numbers that they do. The structure will not be built because the people with money don't want it built. Fourth, it is not possible for the USA to sustain an indefinite influx of illegals. The USA does not have the resources. Yet, I will bet they continue to come...overload the system...and taxes go up to maintain them. All that matters is that money is made. Sad but true. It would take a chemical attack in Los Angeles where it was later discovered that the terrorist came in along the Mexican/USA border. Then they might get serious. USA does not have unlimited resources. You have to control the number of immigrants entering the country.

Dr/us, One B I G difference

*Haitians do NOT vote

[out-loud, me musing] -any precedent, ...why's California a democratic state, today?

[Republican] party strategists have vivid memories of California?s 1994 passage of Proposition 187, which cut off public services for illegal immigrants. The measure, backed by then-Gov. Pete Wilson, a Republican, was thrown out by the courts but the resulting furor helped turn the state solidly Democratic.


- (ultimate) source: a county/town newspaper in Jackson, Wyoming USA


funny fact: Spanish is the primary language spoken within homes in Miami, Florida.
Spanish is also one of Miami's three official languages.


Booming And Thriving In Middle America (no link)...

...And Spurring Growth In Central Central America, Nebraska (added link)

In And Around Our Nation's Capital

[...]
Last year, Johnson-Webb presented a study showing Hispanics settling in North Carolina in record numbers. More than half already were U.S. citizens, and many had begun moving to urban areas instead of concentrating as in the past near military bases and in migrant farm camps

[...]
Contrary to what some people think, she said, most Hispanics flooding the heartland are not illegal immigrants but U.S. citizens relocating from the Southwest, Florida and New York.

[...] (source: UNC early '90s study)

2001

A La Ricky, living La Buena Vida

What, What, Quieres Regueton?

-Business Booming, I say!


Wash. Post,

(Ga. Town Weighs Presence of Immigrants, and Their Future)

[...]
"I don't blame 'em, [immigrants], coming up here, but half of 'em are illegal. We're taking care of 'em. They're having all these babies one right after another," Merck, 71, said. "You can go buy your credentials. It's a known fact, but nobody does anything about it. We need to send 'em back home."

Waiting for a ride, kitchen worker William Morton griped that he cannot obtain some restaurant jobs because he speaks no Spanish.
"This country's not right," said Morton, 38. "The economy's went down for us and gone up for them, and we're supporting Mexico."

[...]
Julia Perilla, who studies grass-roots Latino issues at Georgia State University, describes a "love-hate relationship" between the new immigrants and many Georgians, especially business people.
"On the one hand, they want us very badly. They are very, very dependent on Latino labor. On the other hand, there's an incredible amount of xenophobia that's on the rise in Georgia," Perilla said. "It's extremes. Nobody is in the middle."



*except for those that are "persueded" by certain Dominican political parties, which is really an exception.

Pred...: ...or an uncomprehensive compromise

Migrating back home

Is this (/ever) happening in DR?

- in-migrating


part of the Washington Post's 'the immigration debate' special coverage


Newsweek: America's Devide

This Newsweek senior editor (Zakaria: To Become an American) might soon migrate to a town near you,

Fareed Zakaria, who is a regular guest at the Aspen Institute, Davos, and other northern retreats, told me that he was atracted to the Dominican Republic as a potential tropical alternative. "I've never liked Florida, to begin with. It's basically not that attractive and not that warm," he said.

-a jounalist, The New Yorker


Is this (/ever) happening in DR?

If this is the bill that would make it illegal to help illegal immigrants, even if they are for instance in need of medical help, I sure hope it never gets passed.

As long as there are enormous economic differences between countries there will be migration. People will cross boundaries in one way or another; making life more miserable for them won't help anyone a bit.

aegap said:

........​

?Y?​

::Not at Cinco de May::​

=American People=​

=Catholic Church=​

=Rural America=​

=Corp America=​

=Hispanics=​

=April 10=

=Labor=​

=May 1=​

=April=​

=Nov=​

=8=​

........​

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I'm not sure the point you are trying to make, especially with the "Hispanics" link.

rellosk said:

I'm not sure the point you are trying to make, especially with the "Hispanics" link.

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oops, wrong link!

..Many sides to an issue too complex and too polarizing to be solved in an election year.

oops, can't edit!

laurapasinifan said:

isnt it illegal to sneak into the dr with out the goverment knowing you are coming in? isnt it illegal for an american to sneak into the DR and live here permanently without the goverment knowing?

what do you think the DR goverment will do to an american who sneaks in and stays for 2 or 3 years before he gets caught?

send his kids to college for him???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

they make laws for reasons.... there are issues that people who already live in america want addressed.....the quality of life is getting diluted !!!!!!!!!!

people have to accept the fact that many americans dont want millions of immigrants coming here.

any country can make a law that doesnt allows aliens in their country..ITS their country they can make those laws if they want!!!!!!!!!!

people who have broken the law, risk getting punished..why is that so hard to understand?

bob

Click to expand...

I agree with Bob on this one as well.

There is a slight discrepancy of how the Anglo-oriented media is portraying this issue vs. the Hispanic oriented media. For example, on CNN it's often titled something along the lines of "the anti-illegal immigration bill" whereas on Univision it's more along the lines of "anti-immigrants bill".
Obviously, the exclusion of one word (ie. illegal) changes the meaning and the nature of the news, which could be leading to all the massive protests across the country.

I also find the attitude of many illegal immigrants a little bit repulsive. For one thing, they broke the law and anyone who breaks a law is a criminal because they broke the law. Criminality is not just reserved for severe crimes such as murder or theft. Illegal immigration is illegal and its an injustice to the people of this and any country that has to deal with such large numbers of illegals, but even more of an injustice it is to those who actually migrate via legality.

If Americans are willing to pay extra for the things they use for daily living (or lose more jobs in the process at a much faster rate) then there is nothing wrong with Americans trying to protect their country from illegal immigrants. It's not as if Americans are saying "we don't want immigrants", they are simply against illegal immigration. They do have a good case with this, since the illegal immigration does causes adverse economic shifts both in labor supply and cost of labor which puts many people out of work and causes a further widening of income inequality as wages among the working classes fall while those of the capitalists spirals upward.

However, if Americans are not really ready for the sticker shock of life with no illegal immigrants, then they should be careful what they wish for.

In my opinion, this bill has good rational intentions. This very same issue is also at play in DR and many countries around the world.

-NALs

This is just sick

These people got some big balls protesting this issue. Everyone should be deported..... and if trying to enter ...( should be shot on the spot).

I don't agree with the previous posts on this forum. Period. I also do not think that folks here are well aware of the issues being treated and are just supporting ignorate bills as a knee jerk reaction.

Illegal immigration is US's reality but more importantly it is its history. This country prospered because of immigration at a time were there really was no "immigration policy" per se. People literally walked off a boat plank, told to sign something that made them US Citizen and eligible to fight in the Civil War and registered to vote.

What we should be talking about here is the security of this country. 9/11 and Katrina has shown us that we are not prepared. Some would even say that Homeland security has not delivered on its promises. The rest is a presidential politicking (Frist) and using undocumented immigrants as scapegoats (an easy security target!). Let's not forget that the criminals that attacked the US on 9/11 all entered the US legally. The people we are now talking about and who will be most affected do not FIT the PROFILE.

Exclusionary, isolationist border protection bills that make undocumented people and those who work/live/etc with them into felons is NOT good policy. This is "lock'em and ship'em" type of policy has already proven itself to be BAD policy: namely, the conversion of MS-13 from a localized focused and controlled entity to an internation professional organized crime cartel. Gee, thanks??? It is also bad policy because it will deeply affect small business, probably putting many out of business. This is just not progressive policy.

What eventually passed was better policy given the proposals presented. So all government officials got a clear message that was reflected of people's wants and needs.

What people are failing to realize is that many immigrants pay taxes. In Social Security alone they contribute an estimated $57 billion dollars of which they will not see a dime. They pay tolls and transport fees which goes to repair and upkeep of roads and public transportation. They pay sales taxes that goes to the up keep of the county. They buy things that directly contributes to the prosperity of a local economy. I can go on and on. The only two things that are taxed in their presence is the school system and medical services. And even these are only taxed for a short period of time because the second generationers will be contributing members of society that will become more educated, and thus will work legitimately earn enough to pay for their medical coverage and schooling for family and kids. These folks support COUNTRIES. Dominicans send back $2.2 billion in remittances. From a briefing article in last week's news roundup on slate: A feature-y piece in Knight Ridder looks at the impact of emigration on Mexico's countryside, where town after town has been emptied of working-age men. In the state of Michoacan, "money sent home from the United States is 182 percent of in-state incomes." Did you read that? 182 percent!! This offsets any foreign aid assitances that the US can give 100 fold. It's actually the best form of foreign assistance aid ever. It is efficient and direct.

I find that the sad truth to this "anti-illegal" immigration is that the US particularly the southern bible belt states where Latinos are still fairly new are trying to use undocumented workers are scapegoats rather than addressing the core issues of underachievement that has existed in their own backyards for decades prior to any Latino, as we known them today, even being there.

Lastly, while it is true that immigrants, regardless of status, are ineligible to vote that is only a matter of time. Their presence will result in their children voting and even themselves, if and when, they go through the naturalization process.

Love Hate

Like NALs' dislike easygoing's...like Deelt's too.

aegap said:

oops, wrong link!

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I don't think anyone else noticed.

easygoin said:

These people got some big balls protesting this issue. Everyone should be deported..... and if trying to enter ...( should be shot on the spot).

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I think you need to change your username from easygoin to intolerant.

easygoin said:

These people got some big balls protesting this issue.

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Easygoing,

Illegal immigrants have a right to protest, just like any other person. The issue (at least from my point of view) lies in the following:

1. The people who support this bill are not anti-immigrants, being so would be hypocritical to a nation built on migrants. However, illegal immigrants is the issue here, something that has not been seen at such size and strength in the history of the country. While it's true the US is a country built on immigrants, there were not as many illegals (as a percentage of the immigrant population) entering such country until now.

2. The law and its enforcement should be applied always. A person strays from the written laws, such person(s) should be apprehended by authority figures such as police or border patrol. The law is the law and it must be respected, as long as the human rights of each individual are also respect.

3. While it's true that many communities in Latin America depend on remittances for survival, the truth of the matter is that such system is not constructive towards development and self-sustainability in those respective communities. Tougher migration legislation and enforcement would put pressure on the local and national governments in Latin America to heed to the need of their people. Aside from all of this, MOST foreigners in the United States are legal, the problem is not with the law abidding one's but with those who have chosen to go against the law by entering illegally.

We can all use humanitarian excuses to destroy support for this bill, especially using the "you can't blame the poor for being poor" thus, it sort of legitimizes the fact that such person decided to become a criminal by breaking the migration laws. However, if we were to take such stance with all criminals, there would be none left in the penitentiary or justice system since most criminals don't choose to be one out of will, but very often out of their personal circumstances. A criminal is a criminal, albeit not all criminals are the same and some are more dangerous than others, but criminality applies to all who break the law.

easygoin said:

Everyone should be deported..... and if trying to enter ...( should be shot on the spot

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I don't agree with you on these points.

Only illegals should be deported and those caught entering illegally should be apprehended and deported, but not shot.

No one can blame poor people for being poor and living miserable lives, but they are responsible for their actions.

It's their illegal actions that is the problem, not that they are poor.

All of my point of views on this issue applies to both, the US problem with illegal migration and the Dominican problem with illegal migration.

-NALs

deelt said:

I don't agree with the previous posts on this forum. Period. I also do not think that folks here are well aware of the issues being treated and are just supporting ignorate bills as a knee jerk reaction.

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Deelt,

are you suggesting that illegal immigration be completely unregulated?

I noticed...

rellosk said:

I don't think anyone else noticed.

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just didn't have any useful comments to make.:nervous: