2006 Failed States Index released

GringoCArlos · May 2, 2006

The 2006 Failed States Index has been released, and the DR has improved from 19th place last year to a more (?) respectable 48th place this year.

See the results and analysis here:

http://www.fundforpeace.org/programs/fsi/fsindex2006.php?column=rank&#

Guatiao · May 2, 2006

Hooray

Were only the 2nd most failed country in Latin America and 3rd most failed country in the Hemisphere!!! :cross-eye :tired:

Where is Guyana, French Guyana, Suriname................?

Texas Bill · May 3, 2006

Nevertheless----

It is a repeat of the 2004-05 assertion by the same periodical.

Seems that nothing has changed but the placement in the "List".

Texas Bill

sweetdbt · May 3, 2006

The veracity

(or lack of it) of this index is revealed as much by the countries at the BOTTOM of the list as the top IRELAND?? Yeah, thats a freakin paradise, isn't it?

aegap · May 3, 2006

I'd take DR over any of the gang infested countries in Central America anytime of the day, irrigardless of what that index pertains to say.

Ogre of the Caribbean · May 3, 2006

The BBC explained that the index was made up of many factors, how stable the country was seemed to be the primary reason for the ranking of a nation. The Scandanavian countries, along with Ireland had stable governments, stable borders, and functioning government agencies. I don't think "paradise" factors fitted in .

Much to the extreme humiliation of the Pakistani government, war torn and demolished Afghanistan ranked higher than Pakistan! :surprised The report sited inability to maintain border security, ethnic and religious conflicts and a growing hostility to the Pakistani government in Pakistan's tribal controlled areas.

The DR has very real problems maintaining a secure border with Haiti, controlling Haitian immigration, and problems with corrupt government agencies.

The report isn't perfect, I don't agree with many of the rankings myself.

I agree, I would pick the DR over any other Central American country. Or Afghanistan...

NALs · May 3, 2006

joel pacheco said:
The BBC explained that the index was made up of many factors, how stable the country was seemed to be the primary reason for the ranking of a nation. The Scandanavian countries, along with Ireland had stable governments, stable borders, and functioning government agencies. I don't think "paradise" factors fitted in .

Much to the extreme humiliation of the Pakistani government, war torn and demolished Afghanistan ranked higher than Pakistan! :surprised The report sited inability to maintain border security, ethnic and religious conflicts and a growing hostility to the Pakistani government in Pakistan's tribal controlled areas.

The DR has very real problems maintaining a secure border with Haiti, controlling Haitian immigration, and problems with corrupt government agencies.

The report isn't perfect, I don't agree with many of the rankings myself.

I agree, I would pick the DR over any other Central American country. Or Afghanistan...

Well, Panama (well, at least within Panama City) and Costa Rica are not "bad" countries, but they are on the Central American isthmus.

Everyelse on that isthmus is beyond the question.

-NALs

Chirimoya · May 3, 2006

I agree, the 'maras' have made life impossible in those countries. Foreign embassies, international organisations like the European Union and the organisations I work for have security guidelines for the Central American countries, which define Honduras (and possibly also El Salvador) as the most dangerous - staff are discouraged from walking around in the daytime as well as after dark. In Guatemala the advice is not to walk the streets after dark only. Nicaragua, in contrast, is considered relatively safe.

In the Caribbean Haiti and Jamaica are the undesirable postings from the security point of view. Embassy staff in Jamaica are reimbursed for gym membership because they are told never to walk anywhere. Haiti is an unaccompanied post for UN and other international organisation postings - dependents are housed in the DR and employees are given a travel allowance to visit them on weekends. The DR, even with its deteriorating security situation, is a paradise in comparison.

The 'Ireland' on the list is the Republic, and not the beleaguered but slowly emerging North.

Ireland's recent renaissance gives me hope for 'basket case' countries like Haiti, with which it shares many positive as well as negative facets.

qgrande · May 3, 2006

Chirimoya said:
Ireland's recent renaissance gives me hope for 'basket case' countries like Haiti, with which it shares many positive as well as negative facets.

I sure share your hopes, but I don't think Ireland was just as deep down as Haiti. Ireland's renaissance had to do with the internet boom and lots of foreign investment. It's now the wealthiest country of the EU apart from Luxembourg. It's hard to see that happening for Haiti. It might earlier be something of a model for the dominican Republic.

aegap · May 3, 2006

Guatemala? ..it's not only gangas/maras, homes.

Doing a study on vigilantism in Central America and while my research is not complete, Guatemala definetly seems to be capital of vigilantism in Latin America. (mostly affecting the rural poors, not a big issue for foreigners), ...

..I would rather live in Capotillo than in most parts of Guatemala

When it comes to crime, and given is history of internal strifes and poverty level, Nicaragua definetly does seem to be an astounding anomaly.

How is Haiti?

Studying Haiti's business situation and I'm still left with one question--

-Where from does the Haitian government gets its revenue?

kidnapping and uncertainty seem to have dramatically dropped in lately..

...how is it doing since the last presidential election?

Ireland, Haiti, DR

I wholeheartedly agree with ggrande's post above

Chirimoya · May 3, 2006

aegap, qgrande: think about it.

I didn't mean they were identical, because of course the contexts are so different. There are just some interesting parallels:

(arguably) held back by religion/superstition,
nations of emigrants,
strong cultural identities,
outstanding creativity and traditions,
brain-drain/only achieve after emigrating,
destitution,
impoverished rural economies,
conflict,
powerful neighbours,
divided islands...

Remember - Haiti was once the pearl of the Antilles.

If Ireland could make such a spectacular recovery, surely there is hope - not that Haiti is likely to become the Ireland of the Caribbean - but it shows that recovery is possible even in the most adverse situations.

Not DR-related, I know... maybe we should take it to PM.

aegap · May 3, 2006

Chiri: think abou it

There are immense differences (they are more determining I would say)

. Haiti population abroad's power and influence would never compare that of the Irish population abroad (Cubans would better compare to the Irish here)

. Foreign government will never be as acceptable of Haiti as they were of Ireland

. location, location, location

. the global market will never, not even in though, support Haiti as it did Ireland
etc,

while they may be a lot of similarities (at face value), they really mean very little

(particularly when you factor in the big differences)

NALs · May 3, 2006

aegap said:
Chiri: think abou it

There are immense differences (they are more determining I would say)

. Haiti population abroad's power and influence would never compare to the power and influence of the Irish population abroad (Cubans would better compare to the Irish here)

. Foreign government will never be acceptable of Haiti as they were of Ireland

. location, location, location

. the market will never support Haiti as it did Ireland
etc,

while they may be a lot of similarities (at face value), they really mean very little

(particularly when you factor in the big differences)

This is true when comparing any two countries in the world, regardless if they are an ocean apart or across an imaginary line which has become more visible due to deforestation, ahem.

aranoid:

For more on topic: Hey, look at the bright side! At least the DR is out of the red!!! Go ahead, look in the link. It's out of the red.

-NALs

Texas Bill · May 4, 2006

That's what the Central Bank claims, Nals, but we both know about "inventive bookkeeping", now don't we??

The DR still has an overwhelming debt load to amortize. And the price of oil is going to slow down it's ability to repay that debt unless the Government gets it's act together and produces a competent Government, void of the abject corruption of the past.

Texas Bill

Chris · May 4, 2006

Nals, never say never. There are strong Haitian voices speaking out specifically in the US (not talking about the current 'immigrant' thing). On National Public Radio (whichever part broadcasts out of California) there is now a regular weekly show with a brilliant young women reporting and educating about Haiti. Haitian art and literature is highlighted in many shows and there defnitely is an awareness building. From a place of total world abandonment, I now sense a more empathetic approach just beginning. I'm happy to say that in a sense, the DR is certainly helping. I met two Dominican fellows a few weeks ago that work on the border in educating Dominican and Haitian farmers equally and are building support structures between the two farming communities. Dominican border farmers are helping Haitian farmers and vica versa. Good, grassroots community work. I attended a Development Bank and European Union development fair a few weeks ago, where one of the prizes was won by a Dominican youth organization creating outreach programs to, and together with, Haitian youth, to strenghten the bonds. There are some things that I heard of happening in my neck of the woods as well, that will certainly lead to strengthening the community. We all hope, and I hope you do too!

Chiri, I think it is fully DR related if only in the comparison and context. That is a great comparison that you made.

For me, it would be great to think that the DR is out of the red - that so to speak, the bleeding has stopped. Perhaps the first aid phase is over.

aranoid:

qgrande · May 4, 2006

Chiri, I agree your comparison is fully DR-related, and I also agree with your comparison and the moral-boosting effect such a comparison has in an apparently hopeless situation. Haiti might not become the Ireland of the Caribbean (just like the Dominican will not be the Republic of the Caribbean

) but aiming for the positive might help.
But, I have to say that when I was in Belfast last October, another comparison with Hispaniola came to mind, that of an island with a thriving country with lots of economic growth, visible wealth, and a generally positive image on one side, and another part stuck in endless conflict, visible misery, and a terrible image abroad, with little real hope of progress. Apparently there's a peace process in Northern Ireland, and apparently there have been presidential elections in Haiti, but it still looks pretty bleak; divided islands. But I really hope my downputting comparison was more due to the influence of the hopeless urban landscape of Belfast (and the drizzle) and does not reflect the future of Haiti (or Northern Ireland).

qgrande · May 4, 2006

aegap said:
Chiri: think abou it

There are immense differences (they are more determining I would say)

. Haiti population abroad's power and influence would never compare that of the Irish population abroad (Cubans would better compare to the Irish here)

. Foreign government will never be as acceptable of Haiti as they were of Ireland

. location, location, location

. the global market will never, not even in though, support Haiti as it did Ireland
etc,

while they may be a lot of similarities (at face value), they really mean very little

(particularly when you factor in the big differences)

I think you overemphasise the role of power and influence of people, mainly in the US, with Irish roots, and fail to mention the most important factor, and difference with Haiti (or the Dominican Republic): Haiti nor the DR are part of the EU, with huge amounts of subsidies going round and free access to the whole partly standardised continental market. I don't understand your second point about foreign government.

Chirimoya · May 4, 2006

Absolutely, qgrande. The EU has been the main single factor in Ireland's resurgence. Same goes for Spain.

Say what you like about the EU and its cumbersome, wasteful bureaucracy but give me that over the so-called Free Trade Agreements of the type we get in this part of the world any day.

Instead of developing the weaker economies in the trading bloc as the EU has done, the FTAs on this side of the pond are aimed at squeezing the remaining juice out of the poorer countries, as far as I can see. Not a wise strategy - isn't it better to have prosperous and stable trading partners compared to impoverished, unstable countries with an endless exodus of desperate migrants?

NALs · May 4, 2006

Chirimoya said:
Absolutely, qgrande. The EU has been the main single factor in Ireland's resurgence. Same goes for Spain.

Say what you like about the EU and its cumbersome, wasteful bureaucracy but give me that over the so-called Free Trade Agreements of the type we get in this part of the world any day.

Instead of developing the weaker economies in the trading bloc as the EU has done, the FTAs on this side of the pond are aimed at squeezing the remaining juice out of the poorer countries, as far as I can see. Not a wise strategy - isn't it better to have prosperous and stable trading partners compared to impoverished, unstable countries with an endless exodus of desperate migrants?

Will anyone start lobbying EU leaders to expand their "economic miracle" to non-european places?

-NALs:surprised

NALs · May 4, 2006

Chris said:
Nals, never say never. There are strong Haitian voices speaking out specifically in the US (not talking about the current 'immigrant' thing). On National Public Radio (whichever part broadcasts out of California) there is now a regular weekly show with a brilliant young women reporting and educating about Haiti. Haitian art and literature is highlighted in many shows and there defnitely is an awareness building. From a place of total world abandonment, I now sense a more empathetic approach just beginning. I'm happy to say that in a sense, the DR is certainly helping. I met two Dominican fellows a few weeks ago that work on the border in educating Dominican and Haitian farmers equally and are building support structures between the two farming communities. Dominican border farmers are helping Haitian farmers and vica versa. Good, grassroots community work. I attended a Development Bank and European Union development fair a few weeks ago, where one of the prizes was won by a Dominican youth organization creating outreach programs to, and together with, Haitian youth, to strenghten the bonds. There are some things that I heard of happening in my neck of the woods as well, that will certainly lead to strengthening the community. We all hope, and I hope you do too!

Chiri, I think it is fully DR related if only in the comparison and context. That is a great comparison that you made.

For me, it would be great to think that the DR is out of the red - that so to speak, the bleeding has stopped. Perhaps the first aid phase is over. aranoid:

I recognize that as far as Haiti is concerned, their only "real" friends are the Dominicans. I've said this multiple times on this board. Whatever the motives (some Dominicans are moved by sympathy, others by fear, others by history, etc), in the end Haiti get's more help from DR than anywhere else, particularly if we were to consider what Haiti would look like today if every country in the Caribbean and North America would put as much effort and attention to Haiti as the DR has done.

In terms of full fledge unification? Ah, for what? Unification with a stronger and really wealthy country is more preferable. Why unite two countries that can barely make it on their own? Think of this as a marriage, how would an impoverished and uneducated "partner" better him/herself in the short run? By marrying an educated and wealthier person, to marry someone whose not much ahead will result in virtual stagnation.

And beyond that, I really don't understanding the emphasis on having united islands. There are countries in this world composed of multiple islands united under one government and they are not doing very well, with a few exceptions. Then there are those island nations like Jamaica, Sri Lanka, Madagascar, and such which are not economic powerhouses either. I really don't see the emphasis on unifying an island.

Cooperation is always needed and welcomed among neighbors, but it's that unification ordeal that.... yikes!

-NALs

2006 Failed States Index released

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