Tenga Mucho Cuidado (Part II)...

The spike in crime is due to....

  • Increasing number of ex-felons who are relapsing.

    Votes: 8 14.5%
  • Increasing illegal drug trade.

    Votes: 8 14.5%
  • The police not combating this problem as it should or could.

    Votes: 19 34.5%
  • Government officials not caring.

    Votes: 4 7.3%
  • Lack of opportunity for upward mobility.

    Votes: 8 14.5%
  • The increasing gap between the haves and tourists vs the have nots.

    Votes: 8 14.5%

  • Total voters
    55

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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We all know that each of the entities listed on this poll share some responsibility (some more than others) in the spike of crime in the country.

Please cast your vote as to whom has the biggest responsibility, according to what you have seen, read, or heard.

To give everyone a "heads up" as some people like to say, I will post a third part regarding possible solutions to this problem.

If some of you have an interest in knowing whether your opinion of a solution to this problem is widely accepted, PM me with your suggestion and I will try to implement the top 5 best suggestions in the poll.

BTW, for those of you "down playing" the polls, keep in mind that these poll are not different from thread discussions. The difference between the polls and the threads is that in a normal thread a person would have to read each post in order to get a feel of the opinions while on the poll it's easily identifiable through the bar graph and percentages on display.

As is the case on a typical thread, if you don't like what you see, click away to another part of this web site. DR1 is a big place on the net with little restrictions of who goes where and who reads what.

-NALs
 
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M.A.R.

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Feb 18, 2006
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I strongly believe that one great reason why crime has risen is the deporting of dominicans to the DR from the states once they come out of prison.
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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M.A.R. said:
I strongly believe that one great reason why crime has risen is the deporting of dominicans to the DR from the states once they come out of prison.
I guess that would fall under the first option.

-NALs
 

M.A.R.

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Feb 18, 2006
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NALs said:
I guess that would fall under the first option.

-NALs

yes I know but I thought u should have specified which felons, there is a big difference, felons from the DR and those coming from abroad, the ones coming from abroad have a total confidence when comitting crimes now that they have gone abroad and experience the states criminal system, they think big now.
 

boogieman

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Mar 30, 2006
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i wonder what you mean by:

The increasing gap between the haves and tourists vs the have nots.
 

boogieman

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Mar 30, 2006
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i dont know much about the DR, but usually crime rates increase with increased unemployment.. amongst other reasons.

but the ones to blame for crime are not only the criminals, but society itself!
i can only imagine the hardship caused when a poor citizen (of any country not just the DR) watches television and sees them 'rich' foreigners driving their fancy cars and swimming in their backyard swimming pools.

with an avarage salary of, lets say, $200 per month (which is sometimes more than the average in many places worldwide) that citizen knows very well theres no way to acheive economic wealth, so he looks for shortcuts...

and seriously... we cannot blame him!

white collar crimes or violent crimes.. either way, statistics prove that repeated criminals eventually end up in jail. unfortunately, the justice system fails often because of shortage of funds and/or the criminals inability to properly defend himself.

the philosopny of first-time encarceration should stem from rehabilitation.... not punishment! unless, of course, the crime is extremely severe!

violent crimes, without a question, should carry severe penalties but at the same time offer rehabilitation. simply locking one up and throwing away the key only builds anger, frustration, and ultimately revenge.

when examining crime, we must not forget to examine the nature of the crime, the state of mind of the criminal, and the common denominator shared by most criminals... poverty!

the dominican republic ranks #4 in the world for most natural resources unused... i guess the govt is to blame there.. if used wisely, DR's natural resources can increaes revenue drastically!

a communist/socialist goverment isnt such a bad idea in my opinion. makes us all equal.. but i wont go into depth as im sure it'll only start controversy.

anyhow, i feel very sad for those people who cannot afford a vcr, or a vacation abroad... seriously thats ****ed up! i donate my old clothes/shoes regulary! and any household items that we no longer used are given away to poor families. in fact, we travel to poor cities nearby and distribute the stuff along with canned foods.. especially before the major holidays. thats all my woman and i can do.. if there was more we can do we would.

god bless!
 
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GringoCArlos

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Jan 9, 2002
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I do know a bit about the DR, having lived here for a few years, and I, for one, wouldn't put the blame on poor Dominicans watching TV and seeing things they don't have, but would want.

The only programs the majority of poor dominicans watch are either novellas or cartoons. Think I'm kidding? The only things missing for total control of the poor dominicans is the lottery and a few cold beers, which are the 2 ways to tax the heck out of the poor and ignorant to keep them down.

I believe crime is much more rampant among ignorant young people in ANY country who now believe that the only way they will ever "get rich" is by taking advantage of any opportunity to steal what they perceive to be a 'fortune', or to win the lottery, rather than studying hard, working hard and saving some of what they receive over a long period of time to build their own fortune.

This has been a generational change in thinking, because most dominicans in the past were taught to not steal, because if they did, Trujillo's bad guys would disappear them. I truly believe now that most poor dominicans are taught that whatever they can grab, is because they need it worse than the owner/victim does, and that is why they were presented the opportunity to try and take it.
 

boogieman

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GRINGO CARLOS...

good point about the education.
and once again, i dont know much about the DR, but perhaps a first step is instill the importance of education. a crucial step in a child's developing stage.

the problem i imagine is that uneducated parents do not take the time to instill such philosophy in the child's mind.
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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M.A.R. said:
yes I know but I thought u should have specified which felons, there is a big difference, felons from the DR and those coming from abroad, the ones coming from abroad have a total confidence when comitting crimes now that they have gone abroad and experience the states criminal system, they think big now.
Yes, that's true, but a felon is a felon.

While the perception that a felon in the DR is different and less violent from a felon being deported, the fact of the matter still remains that both are felons and a good number might be relapsing.

In addition to this, let's assume that the felons being deported are more violent than those of the island (although I don't believe this, but let's just assume this for a moment). The deported felon relapses and commits a gruesome crime, guess what? The local island ex-felon will read/hear/or maybe even see the incident and "monkey see monkey do".

Before long, you have local ex-felons commiting crimes that were more typical of deported felons, all learning from what they read in the news, what they hear, and/or what they see, regardless if they personally know a deported ex-felon or not.

Thus, all ex-felons who relapse are just as dangerous and anti-social as those who are deported and relapse. However, not all ex-felons are the same, because some don't relapse and some are actually changed people ready to live their lives in a law abidding way.

-NALs
 

M.A.R.

Silver
Feb 18, 2006
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boogieman said:
i dont know much about the DR, but usually crime rates increase with increased unemployment.. amongst other reasons.

but the ones to blame for crime are not only the criminals, but society itself!
i can only imagine the hardship caused when a poor citizen (of any country not just the DR) watches television and sees them 'rich' foreigners driving their fancy cars and swimming in their backyard swimming pools.

with an avarage salary of, lets say, $200 per month (which is sometimes more than the average in many places worldwide) that citizen knows very well theres no way to acheive economic wealth, so he looks for shortcuts...

and seriously... we cannot blame him!

white collar crimes or violent crimes.. either way, statistics prove that repeated criminals eventually end up in jail. unfortunately, the justice system fails often because of shortage of funds and/or the criminals inability to properly defend himself.

the philosopny of first-time encarceration should stem from rehabilitation.... not punishment! unless, of course, the crime is extremely severe!

violent crimes, without a question, should carry severe penalties but at the same time offer rehabilitation. simply locking one up and throwing away the key only builds anger, frustration, and ultimately revenge.

when examining crime, we must not forget to examine the nature of the crime, the state of mind of the criminal, and the common denominator shared by most criminals... poverty!

the dominican republic ranks #4 in the world for most natural resources unused... i guess the govt is to blame there.. if used wisely, DR's natural resources can increaes revenue drastically!

a communist/socialist goverment isnt such a bad idea in my opinion. makes us all equal.. but i wont go into depth as im sure it'll only start controversy.

anyhow, i feel very sad for those people who cannot afford a vcr, or a vacation abroad... seriously thats ****ed up! i donate my old clothes/shoes regulary! and any household items that we no longer used are given away to poor families. in fact, we travel to poor cities nearby and distribute the stuff along with canned foods.. especially before the major holidays. thats all my woman and i can do.. if there was more we can do we would.

god bless!

I agree with your points, I guess we have to go back to that thread about dominicans who go back to the island showing off their riches. Don't they feel bad that most of the people there look at them and they wish they have a nice tshirt to wear on sundays, at least??? That's the reason why I don't wear fancy stuff when I go there, no jewerly either, and I give away most of the stuff I bring. Material things are nothing to me. Sometimes I'm surprised when I go back like every 2 years and I see the little kids still wearing what I had given them and that's when I realize how difficult it is. The men make like $10 a day to work in the fields, yes $10 a day, how can you not turn to crime out of frustration.
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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boogieman said:
i wonder what you mean by:

The increasing gap between the haves and tourists vs the have nots.
The increasing presence of well-heeled and middle class Dominicans in many of the city and what appears to be well heeled tourists zipping by on tour buses could cause a poor Dominican to question why they are poor.

This is particularly true if the poor Dominican works hard and/or see's other people working hard and never getting ahead financially. At some point the poor Dominican will come to the conclusion that they want the Lexus and through personal experience or observation they come to the conclusion that working hard will not give them the means to buy the Lexus. However, since they don't "know" or they don't want to study and take the long road to riches, they would prefer to emigrate or win the lottery or do the easy thing which is to steal other peoples property.

They will come to the conclusion of stealing only once they have reached such low levels of self-worth and remove all inhibitions which prevented them from stealing in the first place (ie. they convince themselves that God does not exist, in order to feel in control of his/her life and thus validate the theft).

Don't be surprised if you ask 20 Dominicans what are the only ways of attaining riches, if the most prevailing answers would be winning the lottery or emigrating and small number of people mentioning education, entreprenuership, hard work, etc.

This is not a problem exclusive to the DR or developing countries since I remember reading a report a few months ago reporting on the alarming rate that lower and middle class Americans are falling in the belief that the best way of getting ahead is winning the lottery or being connected. It's quite a change from the previous generations who valued hard work and savings.

-NALs
 

boogieman

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M.A.R. said:
I agree with your points, I guess we have to go back to that thread about dominicans who go back to the island showing off their riches. Don't they feel bad that most of the people there look at them and they wish they have a nice tshirt to wear on sundays, at least??? That's the reason why I don't wear fancy stuff when I go there, no jewerly either, and I give away most of the stuff I bring. Material things are nothing to me. Sometimes I'm surprised when I go back like every 2 years and I see the little kids still wearing what I had given them and that's when I realize how difficult it is. The men make like $10 a day to work in the fields, yes $10 a day, how can you not turn to crime out of frustration.

much respect bro!
 

boogieman

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Mar 30, 2006
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NALs said:
The increasing presence of well-heeled and middle class Dominicans in many of the city and what appears to be well heeled tourists zipping by on tour buses could cause a poor Dominican to question why they are poor.

This is particularly true if the poor Dominican works hard and/or see's other people working hard and never getting ahead financially. At some point the poor Dominican will come to the conclusion that they want the Lexus and through personal experience or observation they come to the conclusion that working hard will not give them the means to buy the Lexus. However, since they don't "know" or they don't want to study and take the long road to riches, they would prefer to emigrate or win the lottery or do the easy thing which is to steal other peoples property.

They will come to the conclusion of stealing only once they have reached such low levels of self-worth and remove all inhibitions which prevented them from stealing in the first place (ie. they convince themselves that God does not exist, in order to feel in control of his/her life and thus validate the theft).

Don't be surprised if you ask 20 Dominicans what are the only ways of attaining riches, if the most prevailing answers would be winning the lottery or emigrating and small number of people mentioning education, entreprenuership, hard work, etc.

This is not a problem exclusive to the DR or developing countries since I remember reading a report a few months ago reporting on the alarming rate that lower and middle class Americans are falling in the belief that the best way of getting ahead is winning the lottery or being connected. It's quite a change from the previous generations who valued hard work and savings.

-NALs

sad... true... and well understood.

whats even more concerning is the fact that many developed countries are not closing the doors on third world visa applicants...

with that in mind, poor countries will have to think fast of a way to increase revenue. no wonder tax havens are born.... money laundering will be on the up and up, and rightfully so. its a way to get money in the system.

but do you think the U.S cares about poverty in the DR or other places in the world? HARDLY SO!!!!!!!!

the U.S went into iraq for financial reasons... (please lets not get into politics as this is my view.. i respect others views).... the cost of operations in iraq are undoubtedly in the BILLIONS!

those billions can be spend in africa, south america, and other suffering areas in the world.... then again... the u.s has always been about capitalism.. its a damn shame and im very ****ed off right now just typing this ****.... so im outta here for a while to cool off.
 

Ricardo900

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Jul 12, 2004
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boogieman said:
much respect bro!
I don't think M.A.R. is a "Bro", a Bro-ette maybe,hahahaha

To add, not enough job/career opportunities for Dominicans and compound this with cheap Haitian labor displacing Dominican labor and Deportes arriving every Wednesday, it's understandable that crime is getting worse. Plus, the lack of a stable educational system is not benefiting the country.
 
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M.A.R.

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Feb 18, 2006
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Thank you Ricardo, I was gonna let it go but since you brought it up, I admit it I'm not a bro.
 
May 12, 2005
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I really think that its a combination of all of those factors. However if the country had a well paid and trained police force it would be a huge help.
 
S

sokitoumi

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a lot of the ex pats are also felons on the run from their country of origin
 

domicanita

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Mar 7, 2007
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Their love of easy money

The increase in crime is due to the criminals that have been deported or escaped back to the DR to avoid prison.

They went to the land of apportunity and chose to make fast money the easy way. They are not going to go back to the DR and work hard for peanuts.

Without education, when they come to the US they usually have to work making minimum wage. If someone offers them a lot of money just to take a little package here or there, for them is a no brainer, forget 9 to 5 minimum wage.

Once they are sucked into the that life style, they just fall in love with money. As the Bible saids, the LOVE of money is the root of all kinds of evil. Therefore, they get into a life of crime here, and then they continue this life in the DR, recruiting others along the way.
 
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