Cafta Comming?

hjvkm

New member
Oct 8, 2002
20
0
0
Hello,
I need some info,i have heard CAFTA is near approval. What will that mean? Can Electronic generators be sent "Puerta to pureta without any additional impuestos? From the us? Also what about importing cars, over a year old with the title?
Thanking you in advance.Also what about exporting.


Blanca
 

Squat

Tropical geek in Las Terrenas
Jan 1, 2002
2,239
168
63
Hopefully DR-CAFTA will never come, it's the worst catastrophe ever for the Dominican Republic...
 

Squat

Tropical geek in Las Terrenas
Jan 1, 2002
2,239
168
63
Your research is interesting.
I tend to think that after 6 months or a year, most prices will increase...
It is just a major trap, and we might end up eating foreign rice...
 

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
2,174
26
0
97
www.texasbill.com
Squat said:
Your research is interesting.
I tend to think that after 6 months or a year, most prices will increase...
It is just a major trap, and we might end up eating foreign rice...

Well, Squat---
FYI, "Foreign Rice" is considerabley cheaper than DR Rice and consists mainly of "long-grain" variety which doesn't turn into mush when cooked.
And there will be "other" products in the food line that will be of higher quality. Particularily in the area of canned goods, which won't be 1/3 water added. You'll get more "bang for your buck". Next time you visit the Supermarket, check on the water content of those "imported" canned goods versus a like item produced in the DR and you'll see what I mean. Also, maybe we'll get a little more vaariety of foodstuffs once the price doubling import duties are removed.

Texas Bill
 

Mirador

On Permanent Vacation!
Apr 15, 2004
3,563
0
0
Initially, the lower prices will induce increased consumption of imported articles, while exports will remain the same (while the local export industry gears up from its current competitive dissadvantage, which will take years). Meanwhile, the growing deficit in the balance of payments will force a devaluation since the Central Bank will find it impossible to sustain the current overvalued exchange rate.
 

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
2,174
26
0
97
www.texasbill.com
Mirador:

Don't you think that businesses who actually do theexporting will modernize their equipment and create expanded markets into Central and South Americs and Europe? That would be an obvious method of offsetting the balance of payments wich is exactly what the US is trying to do through DR-CAFTA and other proposed agreements.
Both countries have an economic imperative to accomplish in that regard, it seems to me. Efficiency and quality assurance in the manufacturing milieu and government is the answer to most of these questions. That applies to both the US and the DR, especially the DR Government, which needs desperately to reduce their expendatures and practice austerity while reducing the subsidies now in place. AND the US needs to do the same thing with regard to Farm subsidies. That horse has been running last for too long.

Texas Bill
 

Mirador

On Permanent Vacation!
Apr 15, 2004
3,563
0
0
Texas Bill said:
Mirador:

Don't you think that businesses who actually do theexporting will modernize their equipment and create expanded markets into Central and South Americs and Europe? ....

Texas Bill

Unfortunately, they cannot do this alone, to become competitive exporters local businesses will need the committed support of the government. Technology is only one aspect, and in many instances the old labor-intensive technologies are more competitive. More urgent issues are energy (electricity) costs, transportation costs, bureaucratic red tape, I have never heard of a third world experience where traditional businesses have managed to transform themselves into competitive exporters without government help, something very unlikely from our laissez-faire, let-the-market-take-care-of-it philosophy of our current government.
 

Squat

Tropical geek in Las Terrenas
Jan 1, 2002
2,239
168
63
Dominican agriculture will collapse so fast, you will be able to see the ghettos and slums grow by the day around the cities...

Get ready to increase your personal safety in front of the tsunami of crackheads amd thieves...

This is the translation for a massive "rural exodus", once we all eat foreing "long grain" rice and fancier canned goods...

As of me, I am doing fine with today's DR rice, and I don't use a lot of canned goods anyway...

What a shame for the nation...
 

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
2,174
26
0
97
www.texasbill.com
Mirador said:
Unfortunately, they cannot do this alone, to become competitive exporters local businesses will need the committed support of the government. Technology is only one aspect, and in many instances the old labor-intensive technologies are more competitive. More urgent issues are energy (electricity) costs, transportation costs, bureaucratic red tape, I have never heard of a third world experience where traditional businesses have managed to transform themselves into competitive exporters without government help, something very unlikely from our laissez-faire, let-the-market-take-care-of-it philosophy of our current government.

Mirador:

I quite agree with you that there needs to be greater government incentives, but not in the area of subsidies. There is far too much of that already. The Electricity Subsidy is the greatest evil of all. That particular beast does little else than undermine the population's basic integrity, ambition and incentive to do for themselves. It is an insidious and psychological destruction of the basic drives that has elevated humanity in the heirarchy of the animal world.
The policy of laissez-faire does need to be modified to the extent of elimination of monopolistic business regimes, or at least the partial control, through law, of these regimes to the extent that they serve the public while extracting their profits.
Governments of "third world" countries cannot afford very much in the way of incentives because of their very limited natural resources and tax bases. For a country such as the DR to emulate the economic giants of Europe, the US and others is nothing but a pipe dream. It just can't be done by reasons of a lack of economic wealth. To attempt to do so results in a hurricane of taxation that ends up stifling economic growth for the entire nation.
The root cause of most of the problems in most third world countries is the business and governmental corruption that permiates the society. Most third world countries are composed of a "taker" society created by constant poverty which the politicians have created by "political sops" designed solely to gain votes for themselves and their party. Examples of such are the subsidising of electricity and propane in the DR, the subsidising of farm products in the US, Europe and other political entities. These actions are examples of socialistic economies that, in the long run, result in the bankruptcy of a nation which has not the natural resources in support of that philosophy. Take a look at Cuba and you have a prime example of a bankrupt nation which is dependent on "hand-outs" from more prosperous "sympathiser nations".
For any country whose tax base is limited, there can never be effective growth without the participation of the business world becoming involved in the betterment of the overall society that supports it.
Look at the millions of pesos spent annually by the DR Government in support of the political parties in place. This is NOT money well spent and is totally unnecessary by all standards of good government. Congressional incumbents voting themselves and their cronies an 80% pension after only 2-6 years service only adds to the already overwhelming debt load imposed on the nations society. The "Keynsian" (?sp) system of economics just doesn't work well for low income countries with no natural resources to back up these types of expendatures.
I could go on and on, but this is not the place for a disertation on "third world" socio-economic" theories.

Texas Bill
 
Last edited:

bilijou

New member
Jun 13, 2006
216
4
0
For those against CAFTA, what would you have done instead?
The DR had just ended trade ties with their biggest market, the US, with the expiration of the Caribbean Basin Initiative.
Should they had lost that market?
 

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
2,174
26
0
97
www.texasbill.com
Squat said:
Dominican agriculture will collapse so fast, you will be able to see the ghettos and slums grow by the day around the cities...

Get ready to increase your personal safety in front of the tsunami of crackheads amd thieves...

This is the translation for a massive "rural exodus", once we all eat foreing "long grain" rice and fancier canned goods...

As of me, I am doing fine with today's DR rice, and I don't use a lot of canned goods anyway...

What a shame for the nation...

Squat:

That statement, in and of itself, is ridiculous and doesn't speak to the issue at all.
Local products will still be available in quantity on the local market. Imported goods will not surplant these products unless the public decides they like them better than local ones. Canned "Soupy" beans are still preferred by DR housewives who don't prepare them themselves, or because of Dominicans liking to pour that over their rice. Long grain rice will not replace the Dominican short grain variety because that's what the DR is accustomed to. Use the phrase, " You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" because that is very apt in this regard. The examples were given in an effort to show that the "quality" of Dominican products were inferior to those being imported and that fact you can't deny. Would you rather buy a canned product (16 oz can) containing 14-1/2 oz. of product and 1-1/2 oz of water as opposed to 9 oz product and 5 oz of water? that's what I mean by "quality. The canning industry is scamming the public here, plain and simple.
So far as the "mass rural exodus" is concerned, this will not take place any more or less quickly than it already has. The displacement of the "rural" population has been caused by the agricultural industry in this country and not by foreign intervention into the economy. It is very significant that there is very little "subsistence farming being done in the rural areas or in the suburban areas today. Ask yourself, "Why not?". Is it because the rural population has found a way to sponge off their relatives in the States and the local politicians, or just because it is easier to blame the"Guv'ment" for their lack of ambition and personal responsibility? I'd hate to think it was the latter, however the general attitude seems to be, "Why doesn't the 'guv'ment' do something?" People who won't help themselves, don't deserve help from others. I leaarned that valuable lesson growing up in poverty stricken rural Texas during the Great Depression. Did whatever I had to do to make a little money to add to the family coffers so we had enough to eat. We always grew a garden where we could to supplement what we bought. Ate one helluva lot of soup, because that went further than a 3 course meal. Been there, Done that. So, don't whine to me and the other members of this board about a "lack of opportunity". People make their own opportunity through their own efforts, if they have the gumption to do so.

Texas Bill

"You're barking up the wrong tree, my friend, and using the typical DR excuse of placing the blame in other than your own lap for the social problems prevelent here. Perhaps if you were to study a bit of the History of the irregular social development in the DR you just might get a different perspective about how all this has come about.
Get real for change and stop blaming others for the sortcomings of DR social development.
 
Last edited:

Squat

Tropical geek in Las Terrenas
Jan 1, 2002
2,239
168
63
Texas Bill,

I did read your posts, and they are well-written and interesting.

however you seem to misunderstand my statement :

I am not whining nor complaining, nor barking at any tree whatsoever..

I am just saying DR-CAFTA will destroy the DR and make it a worst place that it is today, with dominicans worst off that they are today.

I understand your background and respect it. I do however feel some aggresivity, and some complex of superiority in your comments, and I see it as a sign of your generation, since I am sure you are a good man, and you will never imagine that your race/social group/nation is superior to another...

This is why I am not offended by your complete misunderstanding of either my posts, or the DR-CAFTA disgrace.

We can´t always agree on issues, it is perfectly normal for 2 posters to be totally sure of their own views...
 

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
2,174
26
0
97
www.texasbill.com
Squat said:
Texas Bill,

I did read your posts, and they are well-written and interesting.

however you seem to misunderstand my statement :

I am not whining nor complaining, nor barking at any tree whatsoever..

I am just saying DR-CAFTA will destroy the DR and make it a worst place that it is today, with dominicans worst off that they are today.

I understand your background and respect it. I do however feel some aggresivity, and some complex of superiority in your comments, and I see it as a sign of your generation, since I am sure you are a good man, and you will never imagine that your race/social group/nation is superior to another...

This is why I am not offended by your complete misunderstanding of either my posts, or the DR-CAFTA disgrace.

We can?t always agree on issues, it is perfectly normal for 2 posters to be totally sure of their own views...

Squat:
I accept the apology and offer my own for misunderstanding you post.
We do differ in our view about the DR-CAFTA agreement. I must admit to not compleely understanding the total intent of it however.
If I come across as projecting superiority, that is not my intent, for I don't feel superior to anyone. As to my agresivity, I can only attribute that to the society under which I "grew up". That characteristic served me well during my military career and was a necessary one to have under the circumstances.
Suffice to say that we march to different drummers in our view of socio-economic causitive factors and their results upon nations.
In my own country of the USA, I have seen society change from one of being individualistic and ambitious to one which is becoming dependent upon the government largess promised by politicians who have no other agenda but to perpetuate their own tenure and that of their political party, regardless of the effects of misplaced laws upon the society they are supposed to serve and be dedicated to. Yet, for all its faults, it is, in my estimation, one of the best that any society can produce. Perhaps it is because that society is a conglomerate of nationalities thaat it has been so successful, thus far. As a people, we don't suffer fools lightly. It is probably for that reason that we are so critical of that which is alien to us and which violates our sometimes misplaced sense of fairness forthose whom we perceive as "downtrodden" or put upon by their governments. Because our nation was born out of rebellion, we are quick to critisize people of nations that are subverted by their own governments and elected representatives.
Sorry, didn't mean for this to turn out to be condescending and hope all waill forgive me for seeming to be such thereby.
Again, my apologies for offending anyone.

Texas Bill
 

Squat

Tropical geek in Las Terrenas
Jan 1, 2002
2,239
168
63
Texas Bill,

I can see you are a gentleman.

I understand what you refer to in your last post, and want to tell you I also didn't want to disrespect you in anyway, since I enjoy reading your posts.

To me it is also very interesting reading posts that develop a different opinion. it helps me sharpen what I think. It challenges me. Afterwards, if I still think the same thing, it is a well-informed opinion.

So, no offense to anyone, and we are after all "DR1 compañeros", so it gives us something in common.

;o)
 

Mirador

On Permanent Vacation!
Apr 15, 2004
3,563
0
0
I started out as a rabid opponent of DR-Cafta, and now I can't stop praising it.
 

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
2,174
26
0
97
www.texasbill.com
Squat and Mirador:

I remain ambivelent as to the long range effects of the DR-CAFTA Agreement. Perhaps because there aare many nuances of the Dominican socio-economic milieu that I don't fully understand as yet.
One of the reasons I have supported this agreement inthe past aare the impositions it places on the Dominican Government to be transparent and as corruption free as it can be made to be.
These impositions have, in effect, brought about a grass roots upheavel in the Dominican Society and businesses that probably has been brewing for many years. I like to think that my countries (both the DR and the USA) have come to the conclusion that "honesty is the best policy" although the recentcy of uncovered corrupt Congressmen and government officials in the US tends to negate that statement. In the long run, we do have mechanisms in place that tends to thwart such machinations by these people. "Americans" become enraged when an elected representative is shown to have abrogated his responsibilities to the "God of Greed" and we are extremely unforgiving in that instance. We demand immediate and vengeful justice. That attitude seems to have transferred itself to the DR population, for they are now demanding justice against such violations. Unfortunately, some of the laws just aren't potent enough to assure that proper justice is served. Perhaps the upcoming Constitutional Reform will speak to that deficiency in law and jurisprudence. Someone once said, "The greatest problem for jurisprudence is to allow freedom while enforcing order". Therein lies one of the greatest problems of the Dominican Justice System. There are too many justices who remain beholden to the political system that appointed them.
For the above reaasons, Squat, I continue to feel that the DR, under DR-CAFTA, will, in the long run, become a much better society in which to raise one's family and under which Society will progress toward a truely Democratic country.

Texas Bill
 

Squat

Tropical geek in Las Terrenas
Jan 1, 2002
2,239
168
63
-Who knows ?
Anyway, it seems (against my will) that the DR-CAFTA is almost a done-deal, so I wish you are right...