Felip Alou for the HOF

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Cleef

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Feb 24, 2002
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Enrique Rojas on Felip Alou

Although I'm in the Bay area, I hear very little about Alou in any regard. With Bond's departure imminent, I'd expect a complete overhaul - including the manager. Not sure if Alou is interested in a rebuilding project, but it appears to me that's what's in order for the Giants.

He's definitely a HOF inductee in my mind.
 
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Cleef

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Feb 24, 2002
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Agreed

Hipocrito Mejia said:
Not happening! He wasn't a hall of fame caliber player, and really hasn't distinguished himself as a manager.
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Although I think he's done quite well to distinguish himself while in Montreal. He's done as much to distinguish and promote Dominicans in MLB as any other.

I don't care for the process of the HOF and give it very little thought, but I'd bet - eventually - he will be inducted.
 
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rellosk

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Mar 18, 2002
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Cleef said:
Although I'm in the Bay area, I hear very little about Alou in any regard. With Bond's departure imminent, I'd expect a complete overhaul - including the manager. Not sure if Alou is interested in a rebuilding project, but it appears to me that's what's in order for the Giants.

He's definitely a HOF inductee in my mind.
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He won't make on stats alone.
 
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miguel

I didn't last long...
Jul 2, 2003
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At it again!

rellosk said:
He won't make on stats alone.
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Again, when posting from your "heart", a person's judgement can be full of air.

Rellosk, you are right not only is Felipe NOT Hall of Fame caliber, but even if he were, before he makes it, his brother Mateo(Matty) would make it waaaaaay before him.

Now, as a manager, let's pick up this conversation in another 5 years!. That he is a good manager, of course, but are we aware of the managers that are in the Hall?, not just good manager but GREAT managers!.
 
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sweetdbt

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Sep 17, 2004
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If you look at his peers among current managers, there are several who are more worthy and a few whose numbers are among the all time greats ie: Torre, LaRussa, and Cox.

I think at present the HOF is a stretch for Felipe, and I don't think he has that many years left to change it.
 
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Cleef

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HOF standards

We won't know about Felipe in the HOF until the propoganda machine gets going, but he'll be considered on more than his W/L record. He's a pioneer in many ways in the game of baseball, that much should be appreciated, and likely will.

The HOF is filled with grey area.

Consider this: Bert Blyleven, he?s third on the all-time K list and threw more shutouts than Tom Glavine, Kevin Brown and Mike Mussina put together, more than Maddux and the Big Unit combined. That's pretty impressive and he gets minimal consideration.

Some of it is based on the time - the 80s - other is metrics; he had a team that was about 10% better offensively than the league - that leads to more wins.

Without he or Jack Morris - and to a lesser degree my main man Jim Ed Rice - I can't give the HOF much credibility.

Felipe has had a significant impact on the game, and more to the point, helped bring a new culture to the game (and perhaps a whole island).

Just my opinion. I'd like to see him get in.
 
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Hipocrito Mejia

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Cleef, the HOF selection process is indeed very flawed. There are people in it that should not be there (Kirby Puckett comes to mind) and people that should definately be there, and are not (Jim Rice).

As it is a subjective process, there will always be disagreements as to who should be in or out. Personally, I think that Jack Morris should be in, as he was one of the few dominant pitchers of his time, and that Blyleven should not, as his accomplishments were more a product of longevity than of dominant performance.
 
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rellosk

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Hipocrito Mejia said:
Cleef, the HOF selection process is indeed very flawed. There are people in it that should not be there (Kirby Puckett comes to mind) and people that should definately be there, and are not (Jim Rice).
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I agree with you that it is a flawed system, and I agree with you that Jim Rice should be in the HOF. But Kirby Puckett should not be in the HOF? How did you reach that conclusion?
 
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Hipocrito Mejia

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Sorry, but Kirby Puckett was only great for a relatively short period of time, which IMO disqualifies him for the HOF.

The reason that Jim Rice is not in the HOF is because the sports writers (HOF voters) dislike him from his time as a player. Supposedly he wasn't the easiest guy for the press to deal with, so now they get to pay him back. IMO, his not being in the HOF is a travesty, and that is coming from a huge Yankee fan.
 
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rellosk

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Mar 18, 2002
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Hipocrito Mejia said:
Sorry, but Kirby Puckett was only great for a relatively short period of time, which IMO disqualifies him for the HOF.
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His career was cut short because of a bout with glaucoma.

IMO, there is not doubt that Kirby deserves to be in the HOF. Remember the Twins WON two World Series with Kirby.
 
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sweetdbt

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Kirby's post-season performance, along with his enormous popularity, is why he is in. He was the star and team leader of 2 world champions, and that's nothing to sneeze at. His career numbers are not that impressive, although it's certainly true he would have had more homers and RBI had he played longer, but then again, his BA might have come down too, and he never won a regular season MVP.
 
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Hipocrito Mejia

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rellosk said:
His career was cut short because of a bout with glaucoma.

IMO, there is not doubt that Kirby deserves to be in the HOF. Remember the Twins WON two World Series with Kirby.
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I know about the glaucoma and his career being cut short because of it. However unfortunate that was, it is not a substitute for the performance that he would have needed to be a legitimate HOF player in my mind.

Look at the career numbers for Don Mattingly, who IMO was a more dominant player than Puckett. He won a regular season MVP, finished second in the MVP more than once, won multiple gold gloves, and was at or near the top in most offensive categories throughout his career. IMO, he doesn't belong in the HOF either; again, because an unfortunate health situation cut his career short.

IMO, the HOF should be reserved for the unquestonably top performers in the sport. Putting in guys who are borderline, or who could have or should have been, only dilutes the meaning of such a recognition.
 
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sweetdbt

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I don't know what the rules are here for Dominican content, but for a classic example of a HOF player who's numbers "lie" because of a shortened carreer, look no further than SANDY KOUFAX. Very few dispute that he belongs, but unlike Kirby, he was the BEST for several years.

Of course the other dominant pitcher during that period was Dominican JUAN MARACHAEL
 
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