Jet Blue gone blue

Flawed

Pilots can be on duty for more than 8 hours already, especially when there are 3 to a cockpit. JFK to Santiago Chile, Rio, Buenos Aires are all over 8 hours flying time with same crews, right?
What about the really long hauls from ORD to Tokyo, or DFW to Hawaii and even longer?
The company is not called Cupertino, it is based in Cupertino, CA.
And the 'guinea pigs' were apparently ALL pilots who 'volunteered', NOT passengers, although I did not read the WSJ story.
This consumer 'reporting' organization, as well as your post is quite misleading and inaccurate just from reading your post and the accompanying article. I can appreciate your concern for passengers being used unknowingly but in this case it doesn't appear to be logical or correct.
Correct me if I'm missing something......please.

Happy to be a "Guinea Pig" with JB....

....every move they are making (at least at this moment) seems to be the right one. Flights on time, Staff and pilots friendly and courteous (have me absolutely convinced that they actually enjoy their jobs), great planes, keep me entertained with the cable, great restaurants in their area of JFK, wireless computer hookups....AND 1/2 the price of CO or AA from the midwest.

Thank goodness they became my alternative (although I have to fly out of Pittsburgh) when AA and Continental continued to torture me even after gaining "FF/ Gold status" with both of them (still am with Continental)....I mean, who the heck wants to turn a simple trip to Santiago from Chicago/Cleveland into a two day sojourn.....or fly on 50 passenger jets? I loved it when Continental told me they had a "super" alternative for me....that was to fly into SDQ and then drive up to Santiago.

Enjoying my experience with Jet Blue immensely.

I think that up to now JetBlue has been making the right decisions with a few mistakes like removing the SDQ and not putting a daily flight into STI. But after all JetBlue offers good service at affordable prices.

NOTE: If you are travelling to DR this December check out their new flight to STI. CHEAP FARES.

A.Hidalgo said:

The something you may be missing is to just read the article. The first sentence clearly says "passengers", not me.

After going to the source of the story, the Wall Street Journal, the article says that the flights that the experiment took place in were domestic flights with passengers in them not just volunteer pilots. Santiago flights were not part of this agenda. The article is only available by subscription to the WSJ. I suggest if you have doubts use your spare change and subscribe.

The FAA link below deals with the 8 hour limit flying time. I am only speculating here but the rule may only apply to domestic flights. Hope that clarifies some issues, but the issue of pilot fatigue is a serious one that needs to be discussed.

Federal Aviation Administration - Fact Sheets

Click to expand...

If you will read the fact sheet, you will see that the pilots are indeed only permitted to fly 8 hours per 24 hour period, BUT, may fly 16 hours continuous by flying the last 8 hours of one period, followed by flying the first 8 hours of the next period. See the 1995 proposed changes, which weren't enacted, which would have reduced this to 14 hours of continuous flight.

1995 proposal
In 1995, the FAA proposed a rule to change flight time and rest limits. The agency received more than 2,000 comments from the aviation community and the public. Most of those comments did not favor the rule as proposed, and there was no clear consensus on what the final rule should say. Highlights of the 1995 proposal:

Reduce the number of duty hours (the time a flight crewmember is on the job, available to fly) from the current 16 hours to 14 hours for two-pilot crews. It would have allowed up to 10 flight hours in the 14 duty hours. Current rules allow up to 16 hours continuous duty time

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Also from the same article "... the airline says a spare pilot was always on board in case one of the crew members became too tired to remain on duty".

My vote goes to JetBlue. The FAA is just peed off that no-one consulted them.

lilredrooster said:

Pilots can be on duty for more than 8 hours already, especially when there are 3 to a cockpit. JFK to Santiago Chile, Rio, Buenos Aires are all over 8 hours flying time with same crews, right?
What about the really long hauls from ORD to Tokyo, or DFW to Hawaii and even longer?

Click to expand...

There are two sets of crews onboard overnight flights like those to Asia, australia etc.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong since my knowledge is a bit out of date.
Flight and Duty limitations of Part 121 (the FAA Regulation that pertains to Commercial Alrlines, states that Flight and Duty time are limited to 8 hours flighttime within a continuous 14 hour period. Should either of these times be extended, for whatever reaason, the Crew MUST go into a minimum of 24 hours of continuous rest before being subjected to scheduling again. This same rule applies to Air Taxi (Charter Service, small planes of less than 12,500 pounds Gross Weight).
Both Rules were devised to prevent Management from forcing their pilots to fly when excessively fatigued. Management has always tried to circumvent these rule by various subterfuges, but have never been successful in doing so.
I imagine that the so-called "Test Run" was such an attempt. ALPA has vigorously defended the Flight and Duty Time Rule since it was promulgated some 20 years or so ago and the airlines have fought it ever since.
One can understand management's attitude, since most Captains make in the neighborhood of 75 to 100 Thousand Dollars per year. Double crewing is expensive and is held to a minimum.
BTW, Private Flying counts against F&D Time also.

Texas Bill

Chris said:

Also from the same article "... the airline says a spare pilot was always on board in case one of the crew members became too tired to remain on duty".

My vote goes to JetBlue. The FAA is just peed off that no-one consulted them.

Click to expand...

That is what i thought...
I would think that if they are doing a study of this sorts, this would be a necessity. I wouldn't imagine that Jet Blue will have the lack of Know-how to have back up pilots.

I give thumbs up to Jet Blue. I remember driving on the Belt Pkwy back in '02, seeing their ads for cable tv in your leather seats (or whatever it is) and thinking to myself"Those planes are going to fall," . Shameful, I know. Like most people, I had doubts about a new company. Especially an airline that comes out with these perks and for so cheap! "How do they pay for things?" was my big question. I didn't travel with them because I didn't trust it. I did think that it would be an interesing investment however. People seemed to be flocking to them despite the concern (or lack therof) of cheap fares for a new company .
In '04 , we had a group trip to Miami. Half flew Delta, the other Jetblue, and they loved Jetblue. Delta was alright.
In '05, we went to Cancun. I was being annoyed by my friends asking why JB does not fly to CUN. As if I had control!
I wrote them before my trip telling them how many college students would love to fly with them to Cancun . I also wrote sometime in the winter and suggested it again. I received a prompt and friendly personal response both times, about expansions in the future , and how the company is still growing. This year, I was thrilled to see an email saying that they have added a terminal in CUN. I would def. fly with them to go there and I am flying with them into Santiago.
They currently have the cheapest airfare for April and, although they do not put out June so early, I doubt that the airfare won't match April's price. April's price is what June's price was for Delta and AA up until two weeks ago. Now JB is my only hope for decent airfare. I'd fly with them even if it were up to the other prices though, only because they seem to exude more quality and professionalism for the cost.

whats the financial benefit of having an EXTRA pilot in the cockpit , if the original has been worked too long...just replace the pilot when the time comes and leave the extra one behind......why ask the pilots to work more continuous hours then put in an extra pilot????

unless the extra pilot is just a safety margin during the trial period.

and you know when a plane crashes later on from pilot fatigue Jet Blue will just say "ok we were wrong". and then they will feel better

bob