The Democratic Revolution

CarpeDReam

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Feb 17, 2006
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I know there are a lot of cynics on this board who love to hilight the evils of dominican politics/politicians/government---and much of it is understood. I am not one to praise politicians much, but I have never felt more proud and more confident in the DR than I do now. I truly beleive that Leonel is probably the strongest/smartest/most progressive-thinking leader in Latin America right now (some may even say he's smarter than Bush).

The Democratic Revolution that he speaks about may be more symbolic than anything else, but I really feel like for the first time, dominicans feel respected and feel that they have a voice more than ever before. I'm not saying Leonel is the best thing there ever was or ever will be in the world, but I think he deserves a lot of credit (more than what so many give him).

Here is an article that was published in www.dominicantoday.com :

"Dominican constitutional reform modernized

SANTO DOMINGO.- The idea of posting popular consultations for constitutional reform in the WEB will allow all Dominicans, in or out of the country, to participate in the process without necessarily having to attend assemblies that will be held in 159 municipalities throughout the country during the month of November.

The Web page not only offers ample information relative to the process, but also contains the questionnaire with the 77 items being consented.

To have access to the questions, the citizen must provide his/her cedula (ID card) number.

Once initiated the process, if for some reason the person must interrupt it, the work done not will be lost, in order to continue later, all that needs done is to reregister the ID number, in this case only the not responded questions can be accessed since the ones already done, can not be changed.

Each citizen will be granted only one registry, the system will not allow the same ID card to be entered any more than one time, except in the case described above.

Even though the questionnaire provides for ?Yes or No? answers, also an opportunity is provided to make a proposal on the different subjects.

For this, is necessary to click on the part that says ?para enviar propuesta? (to send proposal), which appears at the end of each question.

The Internet site provides the calendar of activities related to the consultations for Constitutional Reform and the news and opinions on the process.

Also, President Fernandez? speech, pronounced on the 9th of this month initiating the process, as well as the history of the Constitution and other documents are shown.

The page for this purpose is: Consulta Popular para la Reforma Constitucional "
 

A.Hidalgo

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Apr 28, 2006
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There are some elements of a progressive nature here. As long as the there is a real desire to listen to the population then there is value in this constitution participation. If there is transparency in this process this could set a precedent for the growth of democracy in the DR.

The potential number of Dominicans that can participate through the web is rather small compared to the total population. At least its a start.

Only time will tell, but its a step forward.
 
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Texas Bill

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Feb 11, 2003
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www.texasbill.com
CarpeDReam;

Thank you very much for the last link posted on the above.
I have entered it on my 'Favorites" list and have made it "Required Reading" for my three young Dominicman boys.
That link is very informative and I would like to see more of the same from whatever source.

Texas Bill
 
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aegap

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Mar 19, 2005
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(
some may even say he's smarter than Bush).

:laugh:

that wouldn't be saying much.


ON a more serious note, ..this for some reason reminds me of certain "put-your-resume-online" sites, of which you really have no idea what they do with the infomation you provide. ..it could be a good thing, or it could be just a good PR move and nothing more.


..please pardon my cynism.
 
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A.Hidalgo

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Apr 28, 2006
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(

:laugh:

that wouldn't be saying much.


ON a more serious note, ..this for some reason reminds me of certain "put-your-resume-online" sites, of which you really have no idea what they do with the infomation you provide. ..it could be a good thing, or it could be just a good PR move and nothing more.


..please pardon my cynism.

No need to pardon. Its your trademark. lol;)
 

Rick Snyder

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Nov 19, 2003
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For a person such as me this news is enjoyable to say the least. I had mentioned in another thread as to how I wanted to have a list of those 77 questions and now I have them as they are here;

Consulta Popular - Gu?a de la Consulta

Along with the speech of LF on 9 Oct which is here;

Consulta Popular - Gu?a de la Consulta

I found these 77 questions to be interesting reading and there are a lot of worthwhile items that are addressed in this document but at the same time a lot of items that have be omitted or just passed over for one reason or another.

The interesting thing about this whole process is the number of Dominicans that will and will not partake in the forming of their country. This is true for those that access the internet and those that will attend the seminars throughout the DR. I truly hope that a final analysis of those that partook will be published.

Throughout the years I?ve always mentioned as to how the average Dominican has never had a say in the workings of his government. It is because of this lack of ability that I have also said has put the average Dominican into a fatalistic frame of mind concerning his ability to change things from the status quo. It is with something like this constitutional reformation that I hope that the average Dominican can get the feeling that they in fact can and do have a say in the makeup of their country. This has to be a plus for the country as a whole.

Besides the 77 questions asked they also give the Dominicans the opportunity to express those areas that where not covered and ask for suggestion as to what else should be considered in the reform.

Speaking as an outsider I truly hope that the idea of a separation between church and state is considered. I only say this because it is and has been proven that the failure of having this separation has and is detrimental in the progression of the DR and this progression is something that the majority of the people want.

In studying other constitutions within this general area I have found that Columbia ( Colombia: Constituci?n de 1991, con Reformas hasta 2005 ) has preamble, and the president is, ?Dirigir la fuerza p?blica y disponer de ella como Comandante Supremo de las Fuerzas Armadas de la Rep?blica?.

Argentina constitution (http://www.argentina.gov.ar/argentina/portal/documentos/constitucion_nacional.pdf )
States in article 2 that the catholic church is the official religion. For the president it says, ?Es Comandante en Jefe de todas las fuerzas armadas de la Naci?n.?

Bolivia (Bolivia: Constituci?n Pol?tica de 1976 con reformas de 1994, texto concordado de 1995, y con reformas del 2002, 2004 y 2005 ) No preamble, article 3 makes catholic the official religion due to a concordat, and the president is ?Designar al Comandante en Jefe de las Fuerzas Armadas y a los Comandantes del Ej?rcito, Fuerza A?rea, Naval y al Comandante General de la Polic?a Nacional.?

Costa Rica (Costa Rica: Constitucion Politica de 7 de Noviembre de 1949 y sus Reformas ) No preamble, article 7 is a strange thing in that it allows all concordats and such to be above the laws of the land, for the president it says ?Ejercer el mando supremo de la fuerza p?blica?. Costa Rica abolished its army in 1948.

Brazil (Brasil: Constitui??o de 1988, atualizada at? Reformas de 2005 ) Has preamble, for the president it says ?exercer o comando supremo das For?as Armadas, nomear os Comandantes da Marinha, do Ex?rcito e da Aeron?utica, promover seus oficiais-generais e nome?-los para os cargos que lhes s?o privativos?.

Chile (Chile: Constitution ) No preamble, makes all religions equal. The minister of defense is in charge of the army, navy and air force as well as customs and other agencies. But the president ?Disponer de las fuerzas de aire, mar y tierra, organizarlas y distribuirlas de acuerdo con las necesidades de la seguridad nacional; Asumir, en caso de guerra, la jefatura suprema de las Fuerzas Armadas;?

Panama (Panama: Constituci?n ) Has preamble, gives equality to all religions but mentions that the majority of the population is catholic. Panama has no military so the constitution says ?Todos los paname?os est?n obligados a tomar las armas para defender la independencia nacional y la integridad territorial del Estado.?

Just to give an idea as to what other countries have and don?t have. There are many more and if you want to check them out go here;
Constitution Finder

Rick
 

Rick Snyder

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Nov 19, 2003
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I also wanted to mention that LF wants the people to also respond to such things as jus soil and jus sanguinis. There is the question as to the law that a foreign woman being married to a Dominican man is entitled to be a Dominican if in fact the same law should be applied to a foreign man being married to a Dominican woman. This is addressed in questions 17, 18, 19 and 20 in the questionnaire. This also brings up question 67.

In a land that is considered as everyone is equal I think these are good and important issues.

The questionnaire at question 9 also asked about the addition of environmental laws and I would suggest to the Dominicans to look at the Panamanian constitution, (last link in my previous post, at article 114 through article 124.

In the Panamanian constitution articles 295 through 304 deal with public service. I don?t know if this is the type of laws that would help the DR but as public servants presently only serve while their buddies are in office it would seem that this is something that should also be addressed in the reform.

Food for though for those that may be interested.

Rick
 

elchino

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Jul 7, 2006
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Total Manipulation Of Public Opinion

Some people just don`t get it. The current LF administration is in hot water, the government has not met any of it promises. EDUCATION, HEALTH, PUBLIC SAFETY,ENERGY among many others unmet promises are making the people in the country very upset, especially the poor. As a matter of fact, there is a concern for cao and social unrest in the coountry.

If there is 11 % growth in the economic for sure is not reflect at all, and if so why most investors are investing in lower growth economic in Central America?s countries

PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT MORE TAXES ARE BEING REQUESTED TO PAY FOR THE 2008 CAMPAIGN.

WHAT HAPPEN WITH THE RESULTS OF ALL THOSE (LF) TRIPS TO THE FAR EAST? WHERE ARE THE NEW INVESTMENT?
 

Rick Snyder

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Nov 19, 2003
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Speaking of missions I have one for you. In your spare time I would like you to read this article;

Tomando en cuenta

Please keep in mind that all this didn?t start in 2004.

Could the never being gone have anything to do with living here?????????

Rick
 
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Oct 29, 2006
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Thank you for this thread, CarpeDream.

I'm not dominican; I'm not a resident of DR; I know very little about the country politics, as a part-time visitor (10 trips)

Having said that, I really, really feel great confort, to se that my humble instict, when it comes to judge public personalities, is shared by others.

I'm, certainly, not going to get involved in guess work, speculation, debates, discussion or "monday morning quaterbacking"

But, here are my 2 cents of individual perception:

1.-Nobody, no one can judge Lionel and his true intentions, political direction
and results, but history itself.
2.-No doubt, he's the best stateman the Dominican Republic has produced.
3.-He's trying very hard to indoctrinate democracy, decency and honesty
within his cabinet. (I know this personally, because I socialize with some
of DR government officials in the N.Y. General Consulate of DR.
4.-He's no fool, He's very much aware of his uphill battle with the "forever
lasting" cultural and economic history in DR.
5.-I was very impressed with many of his speeches; very well documented
historically and realistically.
6.-Is he perfect?
7.-Is he God?

I, personally, don't believe in any of the questions reflected in points 6 & 7.
 
Oct 29, 2006
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Hello Rick

In reference to the article you mention "tomando en cuenta" by Professor Jared Diamond.

Professor Diamond's reference to the latest economic statistics in DR, within the last 15 years, could be applied (identically) to the United States. The poor gets poorer and the rich gets richer. What else is new?
Professor Diamond also says:
"Los pobres de la nacion son simples espectadores (y victimas) de esta lucha de intereses"
Again, what else is new?
That phrase could apply to any almost any nation on earth.
"Los pobres espectadores" are extremely busy trying to feed their families. Way to busy to really get "profoundly" involved in politics.
I really hate to see demagogery and sophisticated phrases that tells us nothing.
How about this:
I believe in capitalism, because we know and learned that the opposite option creates oppression and thus limits human imagination & iniciative with all the negative and consequent impacts which affect true freedom.
However, I trully believe (and dream of) a more humane, sincere, compassive and intelligent capitalism. One that really sees the dangers of having hundreds of human beings living in misery around you, being part of your life (whether you want to be blind or not), serving you and tending to your needs, while they make less than 1% of what you make a year.
I, for one, refuse to close my eyes and live in such society, unless I'm willing to do something about it.
 
Oct 29, 2006
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P.S.

But then, when and if I do, I will hear complains such as " you are spoiling it for the rest of us"

Well... I believe you know what my answer would be.....
 

Rick Snyder

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Nov 19, 2003
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Rafael,

In my post whereas I supplied said link I was addressing elchino. Why you decided to address me I have no idea. All your statements are correct and you will get no argument from me. As this board deals with the DR then that article is where it was directed and not to any other country regardless of the fact that it does apply to other countries.

The reason I was addressing elchino is due to the prior history he has along with the two sock puppets that he has posted under in a number of different threads. To thoroughly understand the situation you would have to research his and his puppets prior posting history.

Rick

Was your PS addressed to me also????
 
Oct 29, 2006
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Rick, please, excuse me.

The "you" is addressed to all dominicans, foreigners and businessmen living in DR.

Sorry about my poor choice of words.
I don't even know you, how can you interpreted that it was directed to you?

Again, my apologies