Dominican Today Article on Metro

drtampa

Bronze
Oct 1, 2004
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New Ulm, TX
Most damning article I have read on the total cost.



Santo Domingo.- The subsidy for the Santo Domingo Metro project, once in operation, would be at RD$3.2 billion per year, according to estimations by geologist Osiris de Leon.

The coordinator of the Dominican Republic Natural Science and Environment Commission said that this subsidy for the Metro, in addition to the funding assistance necessary for providing the project with energy, will hold the Dominican economy in a state of bankruptcy.

He affirmed that for each passenger, thirty five net pesos would be required, and that daily, the subsidy could reach RD$8.75 million.

He indicated that Metro promoters did not calculate that this would be the one most expensive project during the past one hundred years while contributing with least number of benefits per each peso invested, in addition to hefty subsidy.

De Leon made his observations during a conference he disserted at State University (UASD) entitled ?The Santo Domingo Metro and its economic, social and environmental impacts?.

He stated that the Metro strongly impacts the economy, because it has spent RD$6 billion and at the end, it will cost RD$55 billion.

It is his understanding that the 14.2 kilometers will barely transport 1% of the national population, while the remaining 99% will pay for a service that they will never use.

He reiterated that the Metro was initiated without studies, without planning, without budgets, without designs and the necessary environmental evaluation.

De Leon said that, for the Metro, all studies were skipped for lack of time and for fear that results concluded in discarding the project from the techno-economic standpoint.

According to the expert, this lack of pertinent studies has caused the project to stumble with grave technical difficulties that have had to be resolved with huge surplus costs, such as addition of thousands of unforeseen pillars, that have cost over RD$500 million at the stretch in Villa Mella.

He stated that, by virtue of funds assigned for capital expenditures, the Metro is more important for the government than food, education and health for the population and a priority beyond environmental considerations.

De Leon said that, during the past month of December, the Executive Power regularized the overdrafts on account of the Metro as of June 2006, by asking from the Congress a transfer of RD$1.1 billion from the Education and Public Health Ministries for the train project.

In his view, extraordinary social impacts of the Metro include, among other, that homes and building structures in the neighborhood of the excavations suffer cracks on floors and walls, aside from impeding free access of neighbors, plus loss of value that nearby homes and buildings.

He considered that risks are considerable, given that the tunnel is built on unsteady grounds.

In De Leon?s view, it is impossible that the Metro transport 250,000 persons per day, as claimed by authorities.

The Transportation Reordering Office (OPRET) has beforehand acknowledged the Metro?s inefficiency, when OPRET announced that some 140 kilometers of bus routes will be required to access the train.

De Leon considered that the country is called on to develop with construction projects, but that development should never be an excuse for undertaking projects without the necessary study and without following a scheme of priorities.

He believes that the Metro is a rushed option that was not planned, adopted unilaterally by the government, without consulting society.
 

suarezn

Gold
Feb 3, 2002
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BTW...the running joke right now is that apparently Leonel said that it will be strictly forbidden to sell or eat Chicharrones (pork rinds) in the new metro when completed. This despite the fact that Villa Mella which is considered "The Mecca of Chicharrones" or "Pork Rind Central" will be one of the places served by the metro...
 

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
18,948
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That article was in the papers on Monday. De Le?n is a geophysical engineer. He also decried the cost of the bridge over the Hig?amo river that cost 22.3 times the original RD$60 million budget! Of course he does have an ax to grind and that might be why all the press. He was NOT hired to do extensive soil testing on either project.

I always get suspicious about these rages, but i agree wholeheartedly with his thesis. My great grandkids will still be paying for this boondoggle...

HB
 

Rick Snyder

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Nov 19, 2003
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Se?or De Le?n has in fact made those claims and the way that I interpret his wordings is not as with an axe to grind. It is a fact that he wasn't hired to do the soil testing on either project and his complaints seem to be directed at the fact that NO ENOUGH tests was conducted on any project.

Concerning the bridge over the Hig?amo river he states that tests were conducted on the Western bank of the river but none were conducted on the Eastern bank. The construction was initiated and when they reached the Eastern side they found that the ground was not able to bear the weight of bridge and therefore the bridge had to be extended triple its original length to reach solid ground. It would seem that if proper tests had been done before construction had started then a better area could have been chosen or the total cost would have been known before construction.

In his latest report on the metro he ascertains that is due to the failure of soil tests that have caused the required installation of over 1,000 additional concrete support posts. Those additional posts alone represent a 1,000% increase in the construction cost. Add that to all the other blunders that are sure to be encountered and COST OVERRUN, like the Hig?amo bridge, are a sure thing.

Rick

Edited to add;

Biblioteca Digital UASD — Biblioteca Digital UASD
http://www.clavedigital.com/Noticias/Articulo.asp?Id_Articulo=8149
Metro de Republica Dominicana
Bienvenidos al Hoy Digital
http://www.elcaribecdn.com/articulo...id=C123147D2AEB468D9A211C4868E180E5&Seccion=3
Evaluaci?n R?pida de la Contaminaci?n H?drica 1/5 - Grupo Hidro-Ecol?gico Nacional, Inc. (G.H.e.N) / Ambiente Ecol?gico WWW
 
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Aug 19, 2004
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A very sad tale that can only get worse.

I would be interested to know what transportation modelling and other analysis was ever carried out. I doubt there was ever an economic case for this scheme in Santo Domingo with its particular population/economic/urban form characteristics. What's wrong with trams or even buses with segregated lanes/priorities or are they too boring for Lionel.
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
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For that kind of money, they could just shuttle people around by helicopter...;)
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
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A very sad tale that can only get worse.

I would be interested to know what transportation modelling and other analysis was ever carried out. I doubt there was ever an economic case for this scheme in Santo Domingo with its particular population/economic/urban form characteristics.
No, they have always opted for outdated rather than sustainable solutions, like underpasses/tunnels and overpasses/flyovers.

What's wrong with trams or even buses with segregated lanes/priorities or are they too boring for Lionel.
To be fair, bus lanes were introduced during the first Leonel administration, but no-one ever paid any attention to them, and they were never enforced.
 
Aug 19, 2004
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To be fair, bus lanes were introduced during the first Leonel administration, but no-one ever paid any attention to them, and they were never enforced.[/QUOTE]

I know - but surely it would have been better to have concentrated on dealing with this issue than building a metro.
 

Rick Snyder

Silver
Nov 19, 2003
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Chiri's explanations of "have always opted for outdated rather than sustainable solutions" along with "no-one ever paid any attention to them, and they were never enforced" is wherein lies the problems.

Of course there are always those great ideas that come along. Plan RENOVE??????? Hehehe

Rick
 

Dolores1

DR1
May 3, 2000
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Actually, I attended the talk at the UASD that led to the story in the press. It appeared on 15 February in DR1 Daily News and has other details not covered in the story that originated this thread. It was a lecture that could well turn into another "I told you so." DR1 Daily News 15 February 2007:

Sewage system vs. metro
Geologist Osiris de Leon, speaking at the UASD Library auditorium yesterday, recommended that the government abandon the construction of the north-south 14.2 km line of Santo Domingo's first underground transport system and use the ditches for the construction of a sewage system for Santo Domingo instead. De Leon feels that if the government continues with the metro construction as so far, there is a strong risk that the structure will collapse.
He says that the government violated Environmental Law 64-00 and did not carry out the required preliminary studies, and as a result has had to increase spending and in some cases duplicate the metro structures when it finds inadequate soils on the chosen route. De Leon says that the government was aware that studies were necessary but did not carry these out and instead used of the RD$750 million that were allotted for the first year to begin to open ditches. De Leon warned that throughout the ground of Santo Domingo, underground caverns and clay soils on the planned metro route could cause the structures to collapse in the event of heavy rainfall, as has already occurred at several points during construction. De Leon also warned such a collapse would also happen in case of an earthquake measuring 7.5 on the Richter scale.
De Leon was also very critical of the government's solution for the dumping of earth dug up to build the metro - alongside the La Isabela River. He says this is in violation of the protected area. He mentioned the government had announced that an extension of the Avenida del Puerto would be built, but then found it would have to dynamite the ground in order to pass the La Zurza area and apparently has abandoned the avenue extension.
De Leon mentioned that the government has spent over RD$6.6 billion on the construction so far, almost the entire proposed cost for the metro, which was US$325 million, and that this amount is only enough for 12% of the construction.
De Leon is an advocate of a bus system for the city, and mentions that the cost of buses is US$5 million per kilometer compared to US$100 million per kilometer for the metro, with the advantage that buses allow flexibility for changing their routes. He mentioned that to feed passengers for the metro, the metro office has already planned 140 kms of east-west bus feeder routes.
The Fernandez administration allotted RD$10.7 billion for the metro construction in this year's budget, funded by a tax increase, up from RD$1.8 billion in 2006.
De Leon estimates that the government would have to subsidize the metro to the tune of RD$3.2 billion a year in order for it to operate. He forecast that Dominican taxpayers would have to pay RD$55 billion for the metro to be completed.
He urged the government to spend the funds in the Santo Domingo sewage system instead, which is estimated to cost US$1 billion, and for which governments over the years have said there is not enough money. "The construction of the sewage system would guarantee public health, because currently 75% of sewage is disposed of using wells that pollute the underground waters.
De Leon said that the country should invite Greenpeace, and the US and French geological societies for their opinions on the geological aspects and violations of environmental laws. Furthermore, the president of the Academy of Science, Nelson Moreno Ceballos mentioned that it is up to the Ministry of Environment to act in response to any breaches of Environmental Law 64-00 caused by the metro construction.
http://200.88.113.180/author/osirisdeleon
 

Dolores1

DR1
May 3, 2000
8,215
37
48
www.
15 February brief on Osiris de Leon conference

Actually, I attended the talk at the UASD that led to the story in the press. It appeared on 15 February in DR1 Daily News and has other details not covered in the story that originated this thread. It was a lecture that could well turn into another "I told you so." DR1 Daily News 15 February 2007:

Sewage system vs. metro
Geologist Osiris de Leon, speaking at the UASD Library auditorium yesterday, recommended that the government abandon the construction of the north-south 14.2 km line of Santo Domingo's first underground transport system and use the ditches for the construction of a sewage system for Santo Domingo instead. De Leon feels that if the government continues with the metro construction as so far, there is a strong risk that the structure will collapse.
He says that the government violated Environmental Law 64-00 and did not carry out the required preliminary studies, and as a result has had to increase spending and in some cases duplicate the metro structures when it finds inadequate soils on the chosen route. De Leon says that the government was aware that studies were necessary but did not carry these out and instead used of the RD$750 million that were allotted for the first year to begin to open ditches. De Leon warned that throughout the ground of Santo Domingo, underground caverns and clay soils on the planned metro route could cause the structures to collapse in the event of heavy rainfall, as has already occurred at several points during construction. De Leon also warned such a collapse would also happen in case of an earthquake measuring 7.5 on the Richter scale.
De Leon was also very critical of the government's solution for the dumping of earth dug up to build the metro - alongside the La Isabela River. He says this is in violation of the protected area. He mentioned the government had announced that an extension of the Avenida del Puerto would be built, but then found it would have to dynamite the ground in order to pass the La Zurza area and apparently has abandoned the avenue extension.
De Leon mentioned that the government has spent over RD$6.6 billion on the construction so far, almost the entire proposed cost for the metro, which was US$325 million, and that this amount is only enough for 12% of the construction.
De Leon is an advocate of a bus system for the city, and mentions that the cost of buses is US$5 million per kilometer compared to US$100 million per kilometer for the metro, with the advantage that buses allow flexibility for changing their routes. He mentioned that to feed passengers for the metro, the metro office has already planned 140 kms of east-west bus feeder routes.
The Fernandez administration allotted RD$10.7 billion for the metro construction in this year's budget, funded by a tax increase, up from RD$1.8 billion in 2006.
De Leon estimates that the government would have to subsidize the metro to the tune of RD$3.2 billion a year in order for it to operate. He forecast that Dominican taxpayers would have to pay RD$55 billion for the metro to be completed.
He urged the government to spend the funds in the Santo Domingo sewage system instead, which is estimated to cost US$1 billion, and for which governments over the years have said there is not enough money. "The construction of the sewage system would guarantee public health, because currently 75% of sewage is disposed of using wells that pollute the underground waters.
De Leon said that the country should invite Greenpeace, and the US and French geological societies for their opinions on the geological aspects and violations of environmental laws. Furthermore, the president of the Academy of Science, Nelson Moreno Ceballos mentioned that it is up to the Ministry of Environment to act in response to any breaches of Environmental Law 64-00 caused by the metro construction.
http://200.88.113.180/author/osirisdeleon
 

elchino

New member
Jul 7, 2006
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Well, I said it before and I say it again, the traditional polital parties in our Dominican Republic, if they continue with their lack of democratic representation and depleting the public funds for their individual $$$$ gain, will set the path to some real radical political changes. The traditional political parties will be out of the political game for good. Historically DR. is only like 8 years behind Venezuela in making identical, systematic political changes.:chinese:
 

2LeftFeet

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Dec 1, 2006
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Has anyone addressed the subway and the frequent blackout situation?? I certainly would not want to be stuck underground on the subway during a blackout in SD! It would be sweltering and scary!!!!

I think that they money should be used else where--water, electricity, education, health care........

Not on a subway!
 

canadian bob

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Jan 16, 2002
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A giant boondoggle which is dangerous to life and threatens the entire economic situation! Canadian Bob (Geologist).
 
Sep 19, 2005
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you know the more bad press it gets , the worse it could be for the population. I really doubt that the administration will revert its thinking on this, thus they will cut corners later on when push comes to shove , for either timing, or costs , or both....

the CONCEPT is good...to bring the country up in infrastructure....but there are more serious wounds that need to be healed first... and the president wants his little baby delivered while he is still in office , most likely.

I wonder out loud here...is there some event, or possible event that makes the administration want to push this?
Like some cities push to build exspensive projects to attract things like the olympics, or the worlds fair, ect ect... is the administration trying to impress the world to pull somthing into the capitol for greater exposure for the country?

bob
 

Keith R

"Believe it!"
Jan 1, 2002
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I remember expressing some of the same reservations about this project two years ago, before it started, as did others here. At the time, it had some defenders, including Nals. I notice they're no longer defending it...

This project never made sense, whether from the urban planning, traffic management, environmental protection, economical (both "bang for the buck" and most useful/effective allotment of scarce resources) or financing points of view.
 
Aug 19, 2004
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The "CONCEPT" is not good - no proper transport planning exercise would have allowed it to go forward. Santo Domingo certainly needs a decent public transport network but this could have been implmented without the need for a metro. A decent bus network would have been sufficient. And if Dominicans particularly the rich cannot respect local traffic regulations - start enforcing them and buy evryone a copy of the Highway Code (as it is known in the UK).
 

VoltageDeNYC

New member
Feb 14, 2006
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I don't think that the Metro is all that bad. Maybe I'm a bit too much of an optimistic person, but I think it should work out if executed well. I don't know for sure , but to me it seems like the power problem isn't as bad in Santo Domingo as it is in other cities. At least that is what I observed the last time I went to the DR (spent most of my time in San Pedro with my aunt and uncle where the power problem was very much prevalent. In my 2-3 days Santo Domingo del Este where my aunt lives the light didn't go out for very prolonged periods.) I also thought that the Metro would have it's own power supply separate from that of the city. Maybe I misread something.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,485
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I remember expressing some of the same reservations about this project two years ago, before it started, as did others here. At the time, it had some defenders, including Nals. I notice they're no longer defending it...

This project never made sense, whether from the urban planning, traffic management, environmental protection, economical (both "bang for the buck" and most useful/effective allotment of scarce resources) or financing points of view.
I have not given up on this.

But, I think I have said enough. It's better to wait and see who will have to eat their words.

I have my hot sauce.... in case anyone else needs it. Words can be quite bland sometimes... :cheeky: ;)

Seriously, I still support this project.

-NALs