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Thread: Tainos in the DR?

  1. #1
    Chip00
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    Default Tainos in the DR?

    I know this topic has been discussed before but since I am very interested in history and especially the migrations of peoples, anthropology, etc. I thought I might bring it to life again, what with all the changes DNA mapping has caused to traditional views of history.

    For example most if not all history references tell us that the Indians died out here in Hispaniola shortly after the Sapnish arrived. However, I know of a Anthropologist who is currently studying the traces of the taino race in the people in the Domincan Republic - Lynne Guitar.

    I started thinking about this again because today I met a fellow with Edenorte who was fixing our power who looks like he could have just walked out of the jungle in Brazil. I asked him where he was from and he said "Peru" and I said "really" and he answered no because he gets tired of all of the Domincans who ask him where he's from! He swears to me that all of his family is Domican as well. Tomorrow I'm going to get a picture of him and post it for the doubting toms out there.

    Also, I met an acquantaince of Lynne Guitar through the internet, Jorge Estevez, who was born and raised here in the DR and had his DNA tested and he is 3/4 indian according to the results.

    I, and many others for sure, have noticed many indian traits in many Domicans today. In fact I have family here that have very strong indian features.

    Anyway, here are some links, enjoy:

    Documenting the Myth of the Taino Extinction, by Lynne Guitar
    A Chronology of Taino Cultural and Biological Survival
    Jorge Estevez Taino Testimony Caribbean Amerindian Centrelink

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    My homemade theory is that there was still plenty of Tainos in the remote areas such as inaccesible mountains (around SF de Macoris, for example). The Spaniards in those days had settlements in the coast, and in the valleys, so they assumed to have killed all indians. But whenever I am in SFdeMacoris, I am so amazed at how "indian" most people look...

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    Default 2/3 of Doms have Taino DNA

    If you read Guitar's work she not only points out 2/3 of Doms have Taino DNA, but that Padre Las Casas (saviour of the Taino) had a rule that you weren't counted "indian" unless you were pure blood, as opposed to some other New World entities that counted one as "indian" even up to octaroon.
    Of course the Doms have much "indian" looks. And the China eye comes from the Chinese immigrants which started with the construction of the railroads in the 19th century. DR population in 1840 was only 100,000, spread across difficult terrain. One Chinaman could tilt the eyes of a whole mountain village.
    Then came the Armenians, Syrians and Lebanese at the final breakup of the Ottoman empire (from which the US got William Saroyan, Kahlil Gibran, etc., etc.). DR mirrors the melting pot of all the Americas, and might even be called the most American of the American races because of their centrality and "just right" size.

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    PS: and then there was the "Ecomienda" which today folk call "slavery" but which Las Casas created to save the Tainos from extinction. Know your history.

  5. #5
    Chip00
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    Default Domican "Peruano"

    As promised, here is a picture of the guy who looks like he stepped out of the Brazilan jungle. He works for Edenorte and all the guys who work with him call him "El Peruano".

    Last edited by Rick Snyder; 03-30-2007 at 12:14 PM.

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    The guy (El Peruano) has indeed very straight hair... As much as his face is common around here, his hair are much straighter than the average...

    Interesting thread, Chip !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuan View Post
    PS: and then there was the "Ecomienda" which today folk call "slavery" but which Las Casas created to save the Tainos from extinction. Know your history.

    Encomienda

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    Chip00
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squat View Post
    The guy (El Peruano) has indeed very straight hair... As much as his face is common around here, his hair are much straighter than the average...

    Interesting thread, Chip !
    The photo is not the best - if you saw him in person you would see that his face really isn't that common from what I've seen at least. Even the Dominicans think he look's different - that is why there are always asking him where he is from - and he typically answers "from Peru" as I mentioned. BTW, he grew up in El Ejido here in Santiago.

    When Lynn Guitar gets back in town I'm going to introduce them as she is documenting people with indian traits here in the DR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squat View Post
    My homemade theory is that there was still plenty of Tainos in the remote areas such as inaccesible mountains (around SF de Macoris, for example). The Spaniards in those days had settlements in the coast, and in the valleys, so they assumed to have killed all indians. But whenever I am in SFdeMacoris, I am so amazed at how "indian" most people look...
    Or the Spaniards lied about the suppose extinction of the Tainos in order to get a green light from the crown to import African slaves.

    It didn't took the Spaniards too much time to figure out that Tainos were being killed by diseases at a much faster rate than any African would.

    Despite all of that, not many Africans were imported into the colony of Santo Domingo, especially when compared to what occured in St. Domingue and other islands in the region. Plus, for hundreds of years the very fragile and small economy of the colony of Santo Domingo was dominated by cattle ranching, not sugar cane.

    Cattle ranching is less labor intensive than sugar cane and consequently, requires less slaves. Over on the other side of the island in St. Domingue (aka, modern Haiti) the main stay of the economy was Sugar Cane. Add to that the most brutal slave owners being the French and voila, Haiti became the colony that received the highest number of Africans after Brazil, in the entire Western Hemisphere.

    Incredible how many millions were imported into Haiti and how low the life expectancy was of a slave once they reached Cap Frances (modern Cap Haitien) which was around 6 months.

    With all of that taken into account, it should be no surprise that Taino genes and features probably remained stronger on the Dominican side than on the Haitian side.

    Also the fact that recent anthropological studies have revealed that not only was the Cibao Valley the epicenter of Taino civilization on Hispaniola, but it had a population of roughly a million; it should be no surprise that Taino genes are still found as much as Taino cultural influences are still vibrant in Dominican culture and the name of places, etc.

    The Spanish and African influences are stronger, but the Taino influence are still there and in many cases staring right back at everyone who looks at a Dominican.

    -NALs
    Last edited by NALs; 03-30-2007 at 02:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NALs View Post
    Or the Spaniards lied about the suppose extinction of the Tainos in order to get a green light from the crown to import African slaves.
    It makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by NALs View Post
    the most brutal slave owners being the French
    I thought the Brits were worst in Jamaica... I also read that the Danes were quite tough in their small islands in the lesser Antilles.

    Quote Originally Posted by NALs View Post
    the life expectancy was of a slave once they reached Cap Frances (modern Cap Haitien) which was around 6 months.
    I always thought it was 10 years, but I might be mistaken...


    Quote Originally Posted by NALs View Post
    With all of that taken into account, it should be no surprise that Taino genes and features probably remained stronger on the Dominican side than on the Haitian side.
    That was an easy one !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by NALs View Post
    Also the fact that recent anthropological studies have revealed that not only was the Cibao Valley the epicenter of Taino civilization on Hispaniola, but it had a population of roughly a million; it should be no surprise that Taino genes are still found as much as Taino cultural influences are still vibrant in Dominican culture and the name of places, etc.
    I totally agree with you on this one.

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