Catholicism and the Supernatural

Status
Not open for further replies.
cobraboy

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
I've become aware recently how some Dominicans believe in the supernatural.

I was suprised to see this. My observations are how devout the floks are about the Catholic church and teachings. Obviously, the belief in the supernatural is in direct conflict with the Church's teachings.

By "supernatural" I mean curses spanning generations, and individuals "ability" to communicate with the dead. I know one case where it is believed some happenings within a large family (suicide, mental illness, depression) were because a family member visited a "shaman/medicine man/witch doctor" (I don't know the exact term) in the deep campo decades ago-and was given bottles of herbs and liquid to bury in specific places to cast out the demons. The "cure" today is to go dig the bottles up and have a new "preacher" (who is Catholic, BTW, and NOT a priest) say a prayer to cast out demons. All far away from the pervue of the Church.

:surprised

I find this very surprising, that devout Catholics have these beliefs outside of the Church. And more surprising is how common I'm told it is, even among the urban middle classes (where I've experienced this).

Can someone more in tune with the religious culture shed some light on this? How common is this? It sounds like Catholicism mixed with voodoo or santeria or something.
 
C

Chip00

Guest
Cobraboy - First of all a lot of these people are anything but devout Catholics - just because they go to church and have a statue of the Virgin Mary in their house with tons of candles doesn't mean a thing.

It is quite common in many Latin American countries that the more "ignorant" people are of their Catholic faith the more they try to "interject" jibberish. This is nothing new as this type of stuff has been going on (and documented) since Old Testament times.

In our church at least on one or two occasions the priest publically scolded recent Mexican immigrants to the area who were doing some type of pagan prayer and sign of the cross that was somehow "a new and improved" version. He basically told them that that wasn't from God and he wasn't going to tolerate it.

I have met many Catholics unfortunately that would fit the above description who really don't know squat about the actual beliefs of their faith. The Protestants really take advantage of this and effectively use this ignorance when recruiting.
 
F

fightingirish

New member
Dec 8, 2005
210
2
0
It's an interesting point, Chip. Such preoccupations with magical beliefs seem to do little to help people live fuller and more loving lives. I can only imagine the anxiety that would result from a sincere belief in being "cursed".

The accompanying difficulty that often results, however, is when non-native missionary priests or other cultural outsiders attempt to wipe out such things. It's a tight rope. Many cultures (in so-called underdeveloped countries) around the globe have world views that are far more pregnant with the mystical significance of reality, etc. Such and such water from such and such stream is curative. Particular words have power when chanted, etc.

Coming from a culture that is very much a child of the "Enlightenment", my first reaction is to scoff at this stuff. Miracle waters and magic beans only hold value insofar as their efficaciousness is measurable in laboratories, etc. "Truth" basically means the verifiability of the scientific method.

But I aspire to at least some humility! :cheeky: I hope to recognize that my own particular world view is one among many, and has its own dogma and magic, not to mention its own anxieties and curses.
 
bob saunders

bob saunders

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
32,633
6,039
113
dr1.com
So you think water into wine and 1 loaf in to many isn't magic? In many countries the Catholic church has even encouraged a blend of the original religion with Christianity. Easier to make converts that way.
 
L

LatinoRican

New member
Apr 11, 2004
211
6
0
Outside is Inside...

Isn't believing in any religion a belief in the supernatural by its very definition? I was raised in the Catholic church which is chock full of "supernatural" occurences: virgin births, angels appearing out of nowhere and talking to humans, dead people that return from the dead, blind people recovering their vision, lepers regaining their health, fishes and bread multipliying to feed hundreds of people, demons being cast out of 'possessed' people, and the list goes on and on and on....
 
C

Chip00

Guest
fightingirish said:
The accompanying difficulty that often results, however, is when non-native missionary priests or other cultural outsiders attempt to wipe out such things.
Click to expand...

I agree that this used to be a problem but in my understanding the Catholic Church has long since "adapted" to allow "different" ways of giving praise to God. For example, if one went to a Eastern Rite/Marionite mass and then to a contemporary Hispanic Catholic Mass with Salsa and Merengue induced music in south Florida an unknown observer might not realize that they are part of the same church!
 
A

A.Hidalgo

Silver
Apr 28, 2006
3,268
98
0
LatinoRican said:
Isn't believing in any religion a belief in the supernatural by its very definition? I was raised in the Catholic church which is chock full of "supernatural" occurences: virgin births, angels appearing out of nowhere and talking to humans, dead people that return from the dead, blind people recovering their vision, lepers regaining their health, fishes and bread multipliying to feed hundreds of people, demons being cast out of 'possessed' people, and the list goes on and on and on....
Click to expand...


You are missing that magic word that makes all this religion business possible... ."FAITH"
 
Last edited:
L

laurapasinifan

Silver
Sep 19, 2005
4,632
91
48
could it be the "large" amount of supernatural "beliefs" come about via the large amount of Haitans in the population?

I was born and raised a roman catholic, and I just spent my second easter in the DR....if the Dominicans show their catholic roots, it certainly is during Seman Santa, and ESPECIALLY ...GOOD FRIDAY

you know i a only down for 5 days!!!!!!!!!!!!:ninja: :ninja: :ninja: taking one whole day out of the equation is a lot of pressure on a poor sinful soul as mine.. ha ha ha

bob
 
D

dv8

Gold
Sep 27, 2006
31,266
363
0
i was brought up in a catholic country and i am actually amazed how meaningless semana santa is here... in poland both saturday and sunday you traditionally go to church and sit at home with family, there is no way anyone would sit outside and down beer and ron!

i am no longer sure catholicism here is treated seriously at all, my few church experiences could not be more different than what i grew up seeing...
animal print seems to popular among ladies attending the mass, along with all imaginable intense colours paired with sequins and shiny fabrics. wow.
 
A

A.Hidalgo

Silver
Apr 28, 2006
3,268
98
0
dv8 said:
i am no longer sure catholicism here is treated seriously at all,
Click to expand...


The phenomenon of partying and drinking is about 15 to 20years old. And you are right before semana santa was more solemn, now its a joke and yet the country is considered very Catholic. Go figure.:ermm:
 
L

LatinoRican

New member
Apr 11, 2004
211
6
0
Well Spoken!

To Mr. A. Hidalgo:
You are correct in stating that faith makes all religions possible! Faith in that by killing a chicken and spilling its blood in a hole in the ground will rid you of an enemy, faith that by lighting two, red candles that are tied together will bring back your estranged husband or wife, faith that by rolling a coconut all around your house and then smashing it against a large rock will rid your house of evil influences, and faith that a small, thin wafer made of flour will save your soul from hell is what makes religions what they are.
 
Last edited:
L

laurapasinifan

Silver
Sep 19, 2005
4,632
91
48
LatinoRican said:
, and faith that a small, thin wafer made of flour will save your soul from hell is what makes religions what they are.
Click to expand...

all those who think that just eating the thin wafer made of flour will save their soul....do not even understand their own religion.....hilter could have eaten those wafers....does anyone think that his soul might have been saved?

bob
 
cobraboy

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
I was just surprised to find that what seemed to be your typical deeply Catholic folks, beads, statues, pictures of Jesus and Mary, bibles, etc. everywhere in their house and autos, would also delve into the realm of the dead speaking to live folks for the purpose of communicating messages.
 
M

mkohn

Bronze
Jan 1, 2002
1,151
4
0
There is such a thing as Christian Spiritualists.
My understanding, Spiritualism believes in the continuity of life. Translated as "the communion of saints" or "eternal life."
Why, even Depak Chopra reminds us that matter is neither created nor destroyed, and I'd like to believe that I am matter.
And there is a movie with Sean Penn where a body was scientifically weighed before and after death - the difference was twenty some grams. What left?
So, who knows? Isn't it possible that since thoughts are things that they are real to those who think them?
No, I am not a Christian Spiritualist - only a thinker and matter. :ermm:
Thanks to the OP for a lively topic.
mkohn
 
C

Chip00

Guest
windeguy said:
I have studied religions as a more than casual observer for most of my life with the intent to discover why people were motivated into believing things that have no proof. Superstition would be the best word I could use. As pointed out by several posters, all religions I have looked into have a supernatural basis.

Supernatural means something beyond natural and beyond our understanding. Something in which you must simply believe without any basis in reality. Such belief systems are a good method used by religions to obtain mind control. I too was a bit surprised at how this carried into the voodoo side of things here in the DR with regard to the Catholic religion. When you realize that voodoo is practiced in Haiti, this connection isn't really so surprising.

I will personally never understand how people can be so deceived into believing that life is more than the here and now. When it is over, that is it. End of story. Please make the best of it for you and yours instead of arguing over who has the best imaginary friend in the heavens.
Click to expand...

This is an opinion that is old as man himself.

Only one question for you - what if you end up being.....wrong!
 
M

M.A.R.

Silver
Feb 18, 2006
3,210
149
63
muy interesante

mkohn said:
There is such a thing as Christian Spiritualists.
My understanding, Spiritualism believes in the continuity of life. Translated as "the communion of saints" or "eternal life."
Why, even Depak Chopra reminds us that matter is neither created nor destroyed, and I'd like to believe that I am matter.
No, I am not a Christian Spiritualist - only a thinker and matter. :ermm:
Thanks to the OP for a lively topic.
mkohn
Click to expand...

this physical body is matter but the soul is not so we must protect and guard our soul.
the soul is eternal so that's why so much emphasis is put on it.
 
J

jalencastro

Bronze
Dec 15, 2004
1,938
104
63
www.myspace.com
what does THIS mean?

laurapasinifan said:
could it be the "large" amount of supernatural "beliefs" come about via the large amount of Haitans in the population?

I was born and raised a roman catholic, and I just spent my second easter in the DR....if the Dominicans show their catholic roots, it certainly is during Seman Santa, and ESPECIALLY ...GOOD FRIDAY

bob
Click to expand...

interesting choice of words here and interesting theory, but i dont think finger pointing or assuming that haitians have largely to do with the amount of supernatural beliefs on the island. remember that all of the caribean islands have most of this 'religion' [i.e. santeria, voodoo, candomble] originate from western africa. i think it is amazing how west african tradition and beliefs has come over to this 'NEW WORLD', granted via the slave trade, but this is where its diversity came from. different european powers at the time brought over slaves, the spaniards happened to land on DR and brought with them catholisism, pushed it hard core on the slaves and hence a new MIX of religion was born. also keep in mind that Haiti and DR is still ONE island and that at one point was all ONE people too, so the mixing between the borders, people, customs was and still is nothing new...what i dont understand is the despise that Dominicans have towards Haitians and or anything Haitian....including their 'religion'. I dont see a big difference is Haitian Voodoo and Dominican Palo/Santeria. And it is practiced just as much on both sides of the island deep within the countryside. :squareeye

Jaime
 
M

M.A.R.

Silver
Feb 18, 2006
3,210
149
63
Supposedly when the slaves were brought from Africa, they couldn't practice their religion, they were forced to practice Catholicism. A way to hide their true religion was to include saints and catholic items in the ceremonies.

windeguy - there are many religions and no, God didn't tell anyone to make up religions, you are right about man making up these religions to control the masses. But you know what?? if you are not hurting anyone, be it people, the environment, yourself, you live a life where you give generously without taking from your surroundings, you are already on uplifting your soul.

lol, in ancient times those people used to fast too much or just didn't have enough food, so they hallucinated.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom