"The Price of Sugar" documentary film

drloca

Silver
Oct 26, 2004
2,097
216
63
Thanks, that looks most interesting and rivetting! Will have to look out for it!
 
G

gary short

Guest
There's a W5 or CBC Doc about the slave/sugar industry in the DR..INCREDIBLE..............
 

Indie

Bronze
Nov 15, 2002
546
0
0
Good. With Paul Newman narrating, this might raise awareness on a less glamorous yet global scale, a la "Blood Diamond."

Another viewpoint: HAITI-DOMINICAN REPUBLIC: Film on Plantations Spurs Backlash

This all reminds me of the novel Over, by the Dominican author and journalist that was killed by Trujillo. I forget his name, but I recommend reading it--wonderful, yet sad story, based on an ingenio worker's plight and life in the bateyes.

-Indie
 

shadInToronto

On Vacation....
Nov 16, 2003
1,988
0
0
Workers unite ...

The time has come for all workers to unite and fight corporate imperialism under the guise of global trade ... factory workers in China and India; call centre agents and sugar industry workers in the DR; ... et all, stand up and demand your rights.
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
The time has come for all workers to unite and fight corporate imperialism under the guise of global trade ... factory workers in China and India; call centre agents and sugar industry workers in the DR; ... et all, stand up and demand your rights.
Good luck with the Chinese rising thing...;)
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,510
3,202
113
The time has come for all workers to unite and fight corporate imperialism under the guise of global trade ... factory workers in China and India; call centre agents and sugar industry workers in the DR; ... et all, stand up and demand your rights.
Why not the 100-plus Third World countries unite to take the wealth of the 20-odd rich First World countries?

Most Third World countries have closer and better economic and diplomatic relationship with their former colonial power or regional power than they do among themselves. That's one major advantage the much more united First World has over the divided and conquered Third World, which is exploited for the benefit of the First World via local First World oriented elites - usually pro-US elites in most countries.

Before anyone blasts this idea into pieces, keep in mind that it's the exact same thing as being suggested above.

However, if this idea sounds "undesirable", then I suggest people to revise their Marxist tendencies.
-----------------------------
Concerning the film,

People on this board have been trying to get this debated for a few weeks now with a new thread with a link being created. People get the hint, no one really wants to debate this. It's highly controversial, filled with misinformation, and is opposed by many Dominican AND Haitian organizations.

-NALs
 
Last edited:

jrzyguy

Bronze
May 5, 2004
1,832
22
0
wasnt aware there were other threads on this film.

I dunno. It just got me thinking. Every time i fly in to SDQ...i fly over the island and i wonder why there isnt a bustling agricultural sector in the D.R. I see farm land and mountains perfect for all sorts of crops..but most of it looks underutilized.

I would think that there would be an effort to develop the land, promote tech centers...and not just tourism. For a 3rd world country the DR has an amazing geographical advantage that it could really use to elevate itself into a world class economy.

just humble grumblings here.
 

jruane44

Bronze
Jul 2, 2004
1,025
44
0
A, A
wasnt aware there were other threads on this film.

I dunno. It just got me thinking. Every time i fly in to SDQ...i fly over the island and i wonder why there isnt a bustling agricultural sector in the D.R. I see farm land and mountains perfect for all sorts of crops..but most of it looks underutilized.

I would think that there would be an effort to develop the land, promote tech centers...and not just tourism. For a 3rd world country the DR has an amazing geographical advantage that it could really use to elevate itself into a world class economy.

just humble grumblings here.

I agree. The DR is missing out on a major oportunity to produce ethanol. The DR could be as self sufficient as Brazil. They can up the production of sugar and be a major world exporter.
 

shadInToronto

On Vacation....
Nov 16, 2003
1,988
0
0
...Before anyone blasts this idea into pieces, keep in mind that it's the exact same thing as being suggested above.
Not similar ... almost all '3rd World' governments are controlled by corrupt politicians, so if they unite, the result is a much larger corrupt group. Workers need to unite to achieve political power then enact laws to protect their rights .... perhaps, a pipe dream.
 

shadInToronto

On Vacation....
Nov 16, 2003
1,988
0
0
... the DR has an amazing geographical advantage that it could really use to elevate itself into a world class economy ..
Global competition is the hindrance ... China and India can do it cheaper. Both public and private sectors need to work towards the same goals - investment in technology, education, infrastructure, tax concessions .. similar to Malaysia's plan in the late '70s.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,510
3,202
113
Not similar ... almost all '3rd World' governments are controlled by corrupt politicians, so if they unite, the result is a much larger corrupt group. Workers need to unite to achieve political power then enact laws to protect their rights .... perhaps, a pipe dream.
Almost all 3rd world countries are controlled by pro-Western corrupt politicians and pro-Western business elites. The fact that most are pro-Western should be no surprise since they were aided in attaining their influence and power of most 3rd World countries by the Western countries they support.

It's another example of NOT biting the hand that made it possible for you to feed yourself.

The Third World exist because the First World exist, its not the other way around. Anyone who doubts this, simply put more attention to the "Made in XYZ" on the labels of everything you buy in your comfy first world gated community... I mean country.

The XYZ part rarely is a First World country and Second World countries don't exist anymore.

The omnipresent "Made in [insert a Third World country]" label didn't come into existance before the First World came into existance. Such label exist because the First World exists and its existance is why the Third World exist as well.

The two are not mutually exclusive, eventhough First World politicians love to play with that idea with their citizens -- always pointing full fault at the Third World themselves for their problems, while ignoring the influence and direct maneuvering First World countries have been involved in the creation of the Third World as we know it today.

And if that is not enough to convince, right now global capital flows are favoring rich First World countries. What does that mean? More money is flowing from the poor countries of the world to the rich one's, even when you take into account aid from rich countries to the poorer countries (with much of that being military and corporate aid).

What does that mean?

In a nutshell, rich countries have the wealth they create within their borders and a huge chunk of the wealth created in the Third World as well.

Now, take this grandiose global encompasing real life scenerio and apply it at the Dominican national level and you will see the exact same thing. In fact, the Dominican Republic is nothing more than a microcosm of what is occuring on the globe as a whole.

And if you think local elites truly control Third World countries, then I suggest you put more attention to what happens when the IMF team goes to the DR to "revise" its progress.

Without fail, a few days after the IMF teams leaves the Dominican Republic the government annouces budget cuts and tax hikes. At one point Leonel blurted out what he was not suppose to say when he made it public that the IMF's "suggestion" that subsidies on cooking oil should be removed were going to affect the Dominican population to a degree that would be immoral and because of that he refused to eliminate them.

The IMF team was first reluctant to accept such action from Leonel until it was made public back in November of last year through the media. After that occured, the IMF team made an exception to the rule and allowed the subsidies to remain in place.

Of course, other things took a hit as a consequence.

Go ahead, do a little research. Washington has greater control over than Dominican Republic than does Santo Domingo.

-NALs
 
Last edited:

jrzyguy

Bronze
May 5, 2004
1,832
22
0
well..i confess total ignorance on all of this. Saw the article about the film in the Boston Globe..sounded interesting and it got my head thinking (always dangerous).

Dont really look to contribute much to what was said in the article or even in the movie (tho i WILL look for it).

Was just looking to see what people in and from the DR had to say about it tho.

kinda off topic..but didnt i read how india is now outsourcing to DR a few months back? Before I lost my job i started putting together a proposal at my job for outsourcing to DR vs. India for middle end to higher end jobs. IT was just a pipe dream for me...but it totaly made sence. THe folks in india are being paid 14 USD an hour for a job that pays about 30 usd in nyc. I cant imagine too many of my educated and skilled dominican friends in SD turning down 14 an hour. (please correct me if i am wrong) Heck! I WOULD take a job in SD making 14 an hour!

I appologize..i am all over the place on this one...i am just an optimist that sees soooooooo much potential and possabilities!
 

Chris

Gold
Oct 21, 2002
7,951
28
0
www.caribbetech.com
Uhm, if you have been on the board for a long time, you'd suspect Nals is reading some different literature these days. ;)

Or, you'd think he is already paving the way for a spectacular failure of the current administration.. (Oops, I was not supposed to say that...!)

Anyway, this is visibly unlike your normal rhetoric Nals. Just an observation and a note ... nothing sinister behind it.


And if you think local elites truly control Third World countries, then I suggest you put more attention to what happens when the IMF team goes to the DR to "revise" its progress.

Without fail, a few days after the IMF teams leaves the Dominican Republic the government annouces budget cuts and tax hikes. At one point Leonel blurted out what he was not suppose to say when he made it public that the IMF's "suggestion" that subsidies on cooking oil should be removed were going to affect the Dominican population to a degree that would be immoral and because of that he refused to eliminate them.

The IMF team was first reluctant to accept such action from Leonel until it was made public back in November of last year through the media. After that occured, the IMF team made an exception to the rule and allowed the subsidies to remain in place.

Of course, other things took a hit as a consequence.

Go ahead, do a little research. Washington has greater control over than Dominican Republic than does Santo Domingo.

-NALs
 

A.Hidalgo

Silver
Apr 28, 2006
3,268
98
0
Another documentary about the plight of Haitian cane cutters called "Sugar Babies", causes a stir at Florida International University.
The Dominican consul in Miami Manuel Almanzar charged out of the auditorium. Before that he stated that
'No Haitian is a slave in the Dominican Republic. Everyone knows that, and it's [a disgrace] to even insinuate it,'' he said.

On the other hand
The documentary, shot in 2005 and 2006, counts among its supporters Armando Valladares, a former Cuban political prisoner who served as U.S. ambassador in the United Nations Commission for Human Rights.

''The violation of human rights must be condemned wherever it occurs,'' he said. ``And people should understand that this is not a problem against Dominicans, but, rather, it is a problem with the government of the Dominican Republic. I saw the Haitian workers there locked up in houses during sleep time.''

And the story continues..........

Sugar cane film riles Dominicans - 06/28/2007 - MiamiHerald.com
 

Funnyyale26

Bronze
Dec 15, 2006
519
4
0
The thing that bothers me the most is that not a single leader in this administration has said or done anything productive to stop this human trafficking and enslavement. I am happy that this documentary/ film came out, to see if finally Dominican authorities take action and this issue is brought up and discussed....It will be even better if this is taken further and international community unites to pressure DR's tourism.
 

A.Hidalgo

Silver
Apr 28, 2006
3,268
98
0
The thing that bothers me the most is that not a single leader in this administration has said or done anything productive to stop this human trafficking and enslavement. I am happy that this documentary/ film came out, to see if finally Dominican authorities take action and this issue is brought up and discussed....It will be even better if this is taken further and international community unites to pressure DR's tourism.


Most just keep denying this thing, they say it's a conspiracy against the DR. Interesting how no one proposes some kind of independent investigation to clear things up.:ermm:
 

El_Uruguayo

Bronze
Dec 7, 2006
880
36
28
Most people recognize that the illegal hatian workers provide cheap labour. This is because they are illegal, they can be deported at any time, so they take what they can get - plus whatever they make in the DR will be better than what they can make in haiti. What a lot of people don't realize is that the presence of the hatian workers brings down local wages, the wages of Dominicans. Nothing is being done on a political level because most politicians are in cohoots with the main benefactors of cheap labour, agriculture and construction. Giving the hatians some sort of status (by having some sort of work visa, exchange worker program etc,) would probably lead to increased wages across the board, but that won't happen anytime soon. There may be a great influence from washington on DR economy, but there is also a huge internal influence from the elite - they will keep cheap labour in action as long as they can.
 

shabe

New member
Jun 25, 2007
6
0
0
I'm confused..why would they stand in line to cross the border to be subjected to this? They must know what lies ahead!
 

Funnyyale26

Bronze
Dec 15, 2006
519
4
0
Most people recognize that the illegal hatian workers provide cheap labour. This is because they are illegal, they can be deported at any time, so they take what they can get - plus whatever they make in the DR will be better than what they can make in haiti. What a lot of people don't realize is that the presence of the hatian workers brings down local wages, the wages of Dominicans. Nothing is being done on a political level because most politicians are in cohoots with the main benefactors of cheap labour, agriculture and construction. Giving the hatians some sort of status (by having some sort of work visa, exchange worker program etc,) would probably lead to increased wages across the board, but that won't happen anytime soon. There may be a great influence from washington on DR economy, but there is also a huge internal influence from the elite - they will keep cheap labour in action as long as they can.


That's what I initially thought but someone in this forum said that no one in DR wants to do the job that Haitians are doing (Construction, Agriculture and Cane). Dominicans want to progress, they want to be educated and attend university. So what I think should be done, is to cap the amount of workers based on whatever workers the industries need...they need 10,000 workers? then 10,000 workers (that have the skills) can come....so that we reduce the amount of problems that we are currently facing...... I don't know man, but they have to re inforce the Frontier, it's not a good thing that so many Haitians are coming....I don't want NOR think we need population growth in DR.