Gated communities - why?

koolkatrina

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I'm researching property to buy in the DR and many houses, villas and developments are in gated communities, even up to 30 minutes outside nearest town, village, city. I've never lived in a gated community, so I don't understand why they are so popular in the DR.

Where we live now in a city of just over 100,000, there is crime regularly, however, not much violent crime - mainly property theft, damage, etc. We run our own home security and surveillance systems which has deterred the troublemakers from targeting our immediate neighborhood. We live in a quiet, but fairly busy residential-commercial neighborhood.

Are these gated communities mainly catering to Gringo paranoia, particularly for those who live/work in larger urban areas where crime is frequent & violent?

Or, is it really not safe to own semi-rural/rural land with your own house in a non-gated community?

We plan on living there permanently, and would like to know if we might be making a serious mistake thinking we can own property outside the "safety" of a gated community. If we have to buy and carry guns to protect ourselves because the police are inept/corrupt, then we'd rather not live there.

We cannot live in a condo, apartment or gated community, due to the nature of our business. We definitely need our own land and space.
 

J D Sauser

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Living in a country with a lot of poverty can limit a privileged person's options as to where and how to live.
This is not a problem only foreigners, gringos and/or people of white skin color a facing, it's a problem Dominicans here are facing too once they live above a certain level. So, when you can do some things most can't, there are some things you can't do anymore and some you have to do. And it's not just about "Noblesse oblige".

Gated communities do several things: They close you in, limit who is coming in and who is exiting alive and who can be part or it. Condominium towers in cities like Santo Domingo are not much different. They do so for a price.

Now, this is not to say that you can't have a save life in a rural region but it will call for some things too, like good command of the local language and your ability to embrace the local culture, become part of your new community and make friends because this will then become your community, gated or not, you will be surprised how it too can regulate who is coming in and who's exiting alive.

... J-D.
 

mountainfrog

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Inside or Out

...Or, is it really not safe to own semi-rural/rural land with your own house in a non-gated community?
This, of course, would depend on many things:
Location, neighbours, measures of security, your behaviour, infrastructure (water, electricity)...

Gated communities are not free from crime either and it very much depends on who runs the project. They certainly make more sense to people who are not in the country all year round.
I for one, would not like to live in a gated community, as I believe in being independent as much as possible.

Good luck!

m'frog
 

SamanaJon

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Gated or Secure??????????

:pirate: It is true that gated communities tend to make one feel safer/more secure. This is not always the case, no matter where in the world a home is located. If you chose to live in a very rural area, as I do, you will have to provide for your own security and safety. One thing is certain, you will have to have to count on someone being "at home 24hours/day", as your will be broken in to, if not. That someone could be a family member or a trusted domestic employee (difficult to find). Dogs are very effective for home security and a firearm is recommended. Once you have Resident status, you may purchase one. Living in 'el campo' you will have unwelcome visitors, a few who may have evil on there minds. I suggest you consider building a perimeter barrier (fence or wall) around your property, if you decide to live in a rural area. Is it worth it?? Till 3 years ago, YES.. but now the answer for me is NO, as violent crime has increased (widespread) in my area over the past 3 years. I cannot see it getting better as the "desperation factor" is increasing daily and a new highway is being opened in 6 months, which will bring not only more tourist and good honest visitors, but the BAD element as well...
 

koolkatrina

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Thanks for the candid responses, so far. I am looking at buying property along the North Coast between Sosua and Cabrera. Not too close to the tourist areas, definitely not right in town.

Anyone know how I can find out crime stats for particular areas, or do the police not normally release such info. to the public for fear of hurting tourism?

We want to become an integral part of the community we decide to live in, having relationships with our neighbors, being involved in community activities, social events, etc. We do not want to live in seclusion surrounded by bars, guards and putting my life and valuables in the hands of some underpaid "security" person who may or may not be trustworthy. We, of course, will have a security system, security lighting, dogs, etc. and keep valuables secured, that's common sense no matter where you live.

We are not rich, but comfortable and would never be flashy with money, property, or valuables anywhere, not even where we live now. Very low-key existence, grow our own fruits and vegetables, have a simple life, but be an active part of our local community. Our eyes are always wide open and we are not ones to be taken advantage of easily. I know some will try to take advantage of the new "dumb Gringos"; it happens here in Canada to newcomers, too, in small and large communities.

I do have a problem when people who live there - born and raised Dominicans and immigrants from North America, Europe and UK - tell me that if we are serious about living in the DR we should both get gun permits and guns as soon as possible. If I have to be armed, might as well live in the US. My city and neighborhood aren't crime-free, but I have never felt the need to get a permit and gun to defend myself and my property. I'd rather move somewhere else if it's really that bad!

I guess my problem is that half of people who live there paint a rosy picture, but others say completely the opposite. I don't understand, so I'd rather read some news articles or real statistics to find out the truth for myself.

If anyone asked me honestly if they should move to my city I would honestly tell them the good and the bad. I would be honest about the cost of living, taxes, crime, social and education cutbacks, bureaucratic red tape, etc., but I would also point out the good things like low crime rate compared to other similar sized cities in North America, quality of life, healtcare, scenery, opportunities, etc. No city, no region, no country is perfect. I am hoping that someone out there can offer a balanced viewpoint, or am I just wasting my time pursuing the DR as a long-term option?
 
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koolkatrina

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That's so sad, SamanaJon. I have read many negative things about the Samana area over the past two years. I decided not to book a resort there last year because of violent crime in that region. I've also received disturbing reports about Las Terrenas over the past year, too, yet a real estate agent has sent me messages about how great that area is for buying property. I'm getting so many mixed signals, it's making my head spin!

No offense to Americans who own guns (see my last post), but we don't have that Amendment Right, so the gun culture isn't nearly as strong here in Canada as it is there. I have never felt the need to own a gun, but I do know how to use one, if necessary. I'd hate to live in a community or a country where owning and carrying gun is a matter of life or death.
 

Rocky

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The farther you live out of town and the more isolated the location is, the more security you need.
One cannot count on police intervention.
One has to set up a good security perimeter and be wise.
Newbies in isolated areas are always easy targets for criminals.
 

whirleybird

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The farther you live out of town and the more isolated the location is, the more security you need.
One cannot count on police intervention.
One has to set up a good security perimeter and be wise.
Newbies in isolated areas are always easy targets for criminals.

I disagree to a certain extent Rocky. Our workers live here on our finca and we have radio contact with them day and night. They are loyal, hard working and honest Dominican staff. Our "track" does not encourage a fast getaway for any criminal and our 8 dogs are good at warning us of any potential intruders. Should we do more?
 

Rocky

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I disagree to a certain extent Rocky. Our workers live here on our finca and we have radio contact with them day and night. They are loyal, hard working and honest Dominican staff. Our "track" does not encourage a fast getaway for any criminal and our 8 dogs are good at warning us of any potential intruders. Should we do more?
Not at all, in fact, you are not disagreeing with me.
You have your own security perimeter, with your radio contact and all your dogs, and that's what you need when you live out of town.
If someone were to live in a house on main street in town, he might not need 8 dogs, and perhaps his immediate neighbours would be part of his/her security perimeter.
 

SamanaJon

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Just another comment...

I undertsand your issue about guns. I too felt that way when I first arrived here 10 years ago. Things have changed my how I think and act. Real estate people sell property and homes. Take it from there, of course things are always "great". True, it may be a good time to buy property in the Samana penninsula, if you are looking for an investment. The Cabrera area travelling west through Breton/Abreu to Rio San Juan is nice and appears quite, but I can't tell you how crime stats are. Don't waste your time with the Police (PN), as they are not very helpful and most are not trust worthy. Some are even the thieves that break into your home. One last thought, it does not matter how much you pay your employee, $100-$1,000 USD, most will steal from you, therefore being underpaid is a valid excuse for thef. Sad but true. Good luck. :ermm:
 

whirleybird

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Not at all, in fact, you are not disagreeing with me.
You have your own security perimeter, with your radio contact and all your dogs, and that's what you need when you live out of town.
If someone were to live in a house on main street in town, he might not need 8 dogs, and perhaps his immediate neighbours would be part of his/her security perimeter.

Hey, we didn't plan the 8 dogs - brought 5 from England (3 Labs and 2 GSD's) but the other young ones are Dominican dogs which we have befriended and, in return, they look after us too...
The only time we did have a scare was quite late at night and we sent a message to our workers via radio who arrived in 2 mins armed with baseball bats, stones and machetes only to discover that 4 Dominican Forestry Commission guys were arresting people for stealing hardwood beyond our home!!! Oh to speak better Espanol lol
 

Rocky

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Hey, we didn't plan the 8 dogs - brought 5 from England (3 Labs and 2 GSD's) but the other young ones are Dominican dogs which we have befriended and, in return, they look after us too...
The only time we did have a scare was quite late at night and we sent a message to our workers via radio who arrived in 2 mins armed with baseball bats, stones and machetes only to discover that 4 Dominican Forestry Commission guys were arresting people for stealing hardwood beyond our home!!! Oh to speak better Espanol lol
Sounds like you have a beautiful system.
It should serve as a model for all newbies, contemplating living in the countryside.
 

mountainfrog

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There is nothing but reality truth.

.... crime stats for particular areas, or do the police not normally release such info. to the public for fear of hurting tourism?

The 'procuradr?a' publishes statistics which are broken down to the province level, which is not very helpful as gross differences may be expected in various locations of a province.
As those are government statistics I have my doubts that they reflect reality to the very numbers.

... I'd rather read some news articles or real statistics to find out the truth for myself.
Although getting as much information as one can get the truth about living conditions here will only be grasped once you live here.
So, the advice always given, to come and live here for a year or so, before investing in a long term project, should not be neglected.

m'frog
 

SamanaJon

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Correction..

My statement should have read " being underpaid is "not" a vaild excuse for,,,." Sorry

PS ..whirleybird..where about do you live?
 

koolkatrina

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This info. is invaluable to us newbies. Thanks. It's best to get info. from folks like you who live there full-time and can provide various perspectives. If I lived in a rural area here in Northwestern Ontario, I'd still have security alams, security lighting, dogs, locks, etc. Just the gun thing makes me uneasy. I do carry pepper spray when walking at night, but I don't like the gun thing. I live in a decent neighborhood, but bad things happen to nice people all the time, anywhere. I just want to cut through the normal rosy glass picture that those who make a living off of foreign investors want us to believe (no offense to the real estate agents and lawyers, but why would you want to scare us away by telling us 100% truth concerning a known crime area).

I have no clue what the BAD areas of any city, town, village, region or province is! I try to read DR news every week, but I have no idea how to make a wise decision on where to even begin to look for property. With my luck, I'd buy something in a neighborhood similar to our Simpson Street - drugs, thugs, prostitues, gang bangers, thefts, etc. Yet, all of our tourism and city economic development web sites do list Simpson Street as a viable residential and commercial area. I would never recommend that anyone buy any property or set up a business near that area, yet plenty of properties are for sale.

The information on forums like this is invaluable. We are bombarded with so many colorful pictures, touristy, fluffly information, it really is difficult trying to make an informed, balanced decision. Those of you who have suggested living in the DR for six months are so right. That is the best advice so far, and I thank you for all of the suggestions. Please post more or PM me.

Muchas gracias!
 

Lambada

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One last thought, it does not matter how much you pay your employee, $100-$1,000 USD, most will steal from you, therefore being underpaid is a valid excuse for thef. Sad but true. Good luck. :ermm:

While I don't doubt that this is your experience, SamanaJon, I have to say, for the record, it isn't mine. Mind you, our maid has been with us 12 years & knows she has a hefty pension coming her way when she retires (as long as I'm still alive because I'm the one who holds the documents ;) ) and knows she has always been paid well above the average. Mercedes is actually more like a family member/friend than an employee. And I get the feeling that whirleybird's prompt response from workers has more to do with how they are valued as people rather than what their salary is. Would that be correct, whirleybird?

And to koolkatrina, be aware also that there are some posters who will not tell you which weapons they do/don't have. I don't ever go public with what we have here although I know some visitors have seen the whip.............. And believe residents who are not real estate sellers nor pimps for same. This will give you a warts and all picture as opposed to a rosy one.
 
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Tee Bone

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This info. is invaluable to us newbies. Thanks. It's best to get info. from folks like you who live there full-time and can provide various perspectives. If I lived in a rural area here in Northwestern Ontario, I'd still have security alams, security lighting, dogs, locks, etc. Just the gun thing makes me uneasy. I do carry pepper spray when walking at night, but I don't like the gun thing. I live in a decent neighborhood, but bad things happen to nice people all the time, anywhere. I just want to cut through the normal rosy glass picture that those who make a living off of foreign investors want us to believe (no offense to the real estate agents and lawyers, but why would you want to scare us away by telling us 100% truth concerning a known crime area).

I have no clue what the BAD areas of any city, town, village, region or province is! I try to read DR news every week, but I have no idea how to make a wise decision on where to even begin to look for property. With my luck, I'd buy something in a neighborhood similar to our Simpson Street - drugs, thugs, prostitues, gang bangers, thefts, etc. Yet, all of our tourism and city economic development web sites do list Simpson Street as a viable residential and commercial area. I would never recommend that anyone buy any property or set up a business near that area, yet plenty of properties are for sale.

The information on forums like this is invaluable. We are bombarded with so many colorful pictures, touristy, fluffly information, it really is difficult trying to make an informed, balanced decision. Those of you who have suggested living in the DR for six months are so right. That is the best advice so far, and I thank you for all of the suggestions. Please post more or PM me.

Muchas gracias!

Bottom line is the resources you have to secure saftey.

Buy Trump, live in the sky and enjoy the view.

Lambada is always spot on so take her advice.

Another scenario is six months here six months there, all on one Island !

Now there's a choice
 

jackieboo

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Before we made the leap and moved to the DR1 24/7 we must have looked at 40 different areas on the north coast. Each and every time we?d look at a house worth considering I?d spend a lot of time driving around the surrounding area and looking at the neighborhood.

We eventually bought a house that has very limited access meaning that there is only one road in and out and if the criminals want to walk then they have a 90 degree climb up a mountain.

Criminals (worldwide) are generally lazy opportunist animals and the harder you make it for them to access your home the more likely they?ll find someone else to target.

The reality is that no home is secure if someone is intent on breaking in but you can damn sure make it difficult.

So when you?re looking at that dream house (gated or not) think like a desperate criminal. Would it be easy for them to get to your house? How many get away points are there around your house, meaning trails through the jungle, roads, etc?.

Good luck on your move we have not regretted our decision once in the last year.