hostility against haitians.

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sybillecutey

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was wondering why dominicans resent haitians. I've been reading threads about how, they don't care if you're african, jamaican etc... but if you're haitian, there will be hostilty.
Do you feel that things will get worse for haitians in the dr, or are they getting better.
I must stress that haitians contribute to the dominican economy very largely (students, construction workers, etc...)
So why the hate ?
It's making DR look bad.
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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Human nature - xenophobia is always strongest towards closest neighbours. Think of other parts of the world and it is no different.
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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This is a two way street, plenty of Haitians resent Dominicans as well. In fact, the terrorist (they terrorize the Haitian citizenry during the ousting of Aristide) Haitian group known as the Haitian Liberation Front, headed by Guy Phillipe, is known for its anti-Dominican stance.

They were behind the protest that endangered Leonel Fernandez' life when he last visited Port-Au-Prince on a diplomatic trip (notice, the Haitian president and high ranking officials have made numerous official trips to Santo Domingo after that incident in Port-Au-Prince and their lives were never in danger and/or anti-Haitian protests did not occur in the DR).

In Haiti a long awaited students anti-Dominican protest turns violent, and at least 3 shot - December 12-13, 2005

They also spread panphlets along the border in both, the Haitian and Dominican side saying the following:

The Haitian Liberation Front said:
"... to the racist and slave owning Dominicans that treat us like beasts, their ranches, houses, women and daughters will be ours.

... to them, pro-slavery and racist Dominicans, we will cut their heads with our machetes and drink their blood like a sacrifice to our Vodoo Gods.

... [dominican] land belongs to us. The vengeance for the crimes they have committed against us is coming; tomorrow all will be sorry to consider themselves Dominicans.

... long lives Toussaint, down Duarte. Long lives a free Haiti, down pro-slavery and criminal Dominican Republic."

Source

Article that shows the roll the Haitian Liberation Front had during the ousting of Aristide

Guy Phillipe: The Rebelling Soldier - the leader behind the front

More on the Haitian Liberation Front (in French)

-NALs
 

Funnyyale26

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Dec 15, 2006
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I think it's racism. They don't seem hostile to white americans.

Racism is accounts for very little...YOU YOURSELF stated that dominicans don't have a problem w/ black americans, jamaicans, other west indians, etc. Please read some Haitian - Dominican history before you make that claim.
 

Squat

Tropical geek in Las Terrenas
Jan 1, 2002
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was wondering why dominicans resent haitians.
Read your Dominican and Haitian history books again (or surf some history website...), the answer is obvious.
I've been reading threads about...
Reading threads is not enough ! I am sorry to say that you need to read about Hispaniola's History to understand. The Dominican Republic was occupied by the Haitians for 22 years. If you know how the French felt after only 5 years of German occupation during WW2, you might start to understand the complexity of the feelings in this island.

see a bit here :
Dominican Republic - HAITI AND SANTO DOMINGO

History of the Dominican Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Matilda

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Sep 13, 2006
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Even if we do not think about the history, and in this case it is very important, not only the Haitian occupation, but the preoccupation for centuries with 'white' skin, on a daily basis there are 'issues' with Haitians. I have Haitians working for me, and they are fab workers, but it was Haitians who shot me. Haitians rob my electricity. Most of the squatters here (and that is all around your house filling your balmy evenings with acrid smoke as they burn plastic cups for the fire to cook teas) are Haitians, as the construction companies employ them and do not give them anywhere to live, so they have to find a piece of land, (hopefully where they can plug into the electricity) to build their shacks.Much of the water here (well water from a water table 24ft down) is now polluted as there are so many 'holes in the ground'. I am appalled by the racism of many Dominicans, but I can sometimes understand the frustration of some expats and Dominicans here when their daily lives are made more difficult by Haitian squatters. My house was totally alone here, now I have shacks actually stuck on to my back wall, 50 Haitians directly in front of my house and around 20 on each side. I help as I can with water etc, but I can tell you sometimes you just long for peace.

The issue here is also the same as in the UK, where so many British people complain about the immigrants - the Dominicans do the same about the Haitian immigrants. It is the same the world over. The Germans and the gastarbeiters, the French and the pieds noires, the Hungarians and Poles and the gypsies.

Matilda
 

jrf

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Jan 9, 2005
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frank... true in general I believe they are much better educated, mannered, and culturally minded.

but... thread is about the Dominican/Haitian relationship.

Nals is much more well read than I am (I am just beginning to find out more about the history of both sides of the island).

There are many different reasons for both sides having racist attitudes. Mostly though, and I hope you would agree, is that this continuing feeling is from a lack of education.

There has been good and bad done from both sides of the river but the two cannot exist without each other.
Not financially any way.

It's like the bad brother in law you have to live with but he also provides some good to you as well.
 

frankreyes3rd

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Jan 15, 2007
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Education

Bingo!
Straight to the heart of the matter.
Education is key.
I was being a little facecious, but having lived in both parts of the island I have a little perspective.
If you can stand a little generalisation here and there, I could tell you some illustrative anecdotes.....you have to promise not to get upset about the truth though!
Want to hear them????
 

A.Hidalgo

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Apr 28, 2006
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Bingo!
Straight to the heart of the matter.
Education is key.
I was being a little facecious, but having lived in both parts of the island I have a little perspective.
If you can stand a little generalisation here and there, I could tell you some illustrative anecdotes.....you have to promise not to get upset about the truth though!
Want to hear them????

We are all ears....or in this case all eyes...go.
 

Matilda

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Sep 13, 2006
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I agree on the whole Haitians are much better educated, but I disagree that education is the problem. Some of the most racist dominicans I have met are some of the best educated. And I am sure that in other parts of the world as well racism transcends education.
 

A.Hidalgo

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I agree on the whole Haitians are much better educated, but I disagree that education is the problem. Some of the most racist dominicans I have met are some of the best educated. And I am sure that in other parts of the world as well racism transcends education.

I agree, being highly educated does not translate to a person not being a racist. History has shown us that the brutes are not he ones that drive a xenophobia or distrust of others because of the color of their skin. Racism has been articulated by the elites who are usually educated and use it to keep control of their status by finding a boogeyman to blame problems on.

In the Dominican Republic Balaguer was a highly educated man was who was also a racist when it came to Haitians.
In his book, The Island of Dreams, Balaguer explains his fear that Haitians will disintegrate the "moral and ethnic values" of the Dominican family, and that this phenomenon, "if it is not stemmed in time, will, in the end, facilitate the absorption of the Dominican Republic by Haiti"
These words were uttered from a man who was president for over 20 years. That kind of rhetoric trickles down to the population and we are were we are today. Btw before him the dictator Trujillo was also a virulent anti-Haitian...and he ruled with an iron fist for over 30 years. Are we surprised at the present state of affairs.:ermm:

Quote from:
Joaquin Balaguer, Isla al Reves: Haiti y el Destino Dominicano (Santo Domingo: Libreria Dominicana, 1984) p. 156.
 

Chip

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This topic has been discussed many times on this forum and is difficult to explain the actual dynamic, not the least of which is influenced by individual variations.

Nonetheless, to start it is common for many Dominicans to call their child a "Haitian" if they are behaving bad, especially if the kids are are somewhat dark.

However, many Dominicans (not necessarily the majority, depends on the are one lives in) are virtually indistinguishable for many Haitians and allthough they may be kidded about their dark color, for the most part the prejudice ends there. They marry other Dominicans, sometimes, much much lighter than them and get normal everyday jobs just like everybody else.

I'm sure someone will come on and post and give me examples of dark people being rejected for work or from a club etc, I would ask that the people just be cognizant of the fact that this represents a small percentage of the actual normal every day interactions, due to the fact that there are relatively few light skinned people here so there will be much of a less chance of prejudice, although it does occur.

To continue, what we have here in the DR is not at all like the type of racial issues the US has. The Haitians were never slaves of the Dominicans like many blacks were to some whites in the US. Rather, Dominicans were occupied by the Haitians unwillingly for more than 20 years. The animosity, therefore is still in the minds of the Dominicans towards the occupation, much the same way many blacks in America have animosity towards whitres for slavery.

So there are in effect some similarities but then again many differences as well that effect the overall dynamic. The best way to see how it works is to learn Spanish and come here to live. If one just chooses to look at it from a Western outside perspective it will always be tainted by prejudices and hollow "political correctness" which is so pervasive in Western media.
 

Steve Costa Azul

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Jul 15, 2006
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Skin colour

This topic has been discussed many times on this forum and is difficult to explain the actual dynamic, not the least of which is influenced by individual variations.

Nonetheless, to start it is common for many Dominicans to call their child a "Haitian" if they are behaving bad, especially if the kids are are somewhat dark.

However, many Dominicans (not necessarily the majority, depends on the are one lives in) are virtually indistinguishable for many Haitians and allthough they may be kidded about their dark color, for the most part the prejudice ends there. They marry other Dominicans, sometimes, much much lighter than them and get normal everyday jobs just like everybody else.

I'm sure someone will come on and post and give me examples of dark people being rejected for work or from a club etc, I would ask that the people just be cognizant of the fact that this represents a small percentage of the actual normal every day interactions, due to the fact that there are relatively few light skinned people here so there will be much of a less chance of prejudice, although it does occur.

To continue, what we have here in the DR is not at all like the type of racial issues the US has. The Haitians were never slaves of the Dominicans like many blacks were to some whites in the US. Rather, Dominicans were occupied by the Haitians unwillingly for more than 20 years. The animosity, therefore is still in the minds of the Dominicans towards the occupation, much the same way many blacks in America have animosity towards whitres for slavery.

So there are in effect some similarities but then again many differences as well that effect the overall dynamic. The best way to see how it works is to learn Spanish and come here to live. If one just chooses to look at it from a Western outside perspective it will always be tainted by prejudices and hollow "political correctness" which is so pervasive in Western media.

It's true it seems, at least from what I have observed, that MOST Dominicans scrunch their noses up when it comes to the Hatians. It seems equally as true, that Dominicans prefer lighter skin too. They clearly put the lighter skinned Dominican's on pedestals.
I have tried to educate my Dominican friend, by telling him, skin colour just doesn't matter, the world is full of different shades!
It seems to be a hard sell! Maybe in another 250 years or so. :ermm:
Living in Canada, being so multicultural, has made me colour blind, like it should be.
When my DR pal watches me swimming in my pool and leaning back getting some sun on my face, days before I return home so I can show the pail faces my tan, he just shakes his head under the palapa (heaven forbid be in the sun, getting darker skin), and says "tu loco"!
I told him that ladrones come in all colours.
Steve :disappoin
 

frankreyes3rd

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A few observations

I have lots of stories which serve to illuminate nothing more than a small corner of one person's experience.
However these things made me chuckle:

If I tell Haitians 7:00 AM Monday, in my experience they will be there around 7:00pm Monday.
Not so with Dominicans, for the most part.
The ones that do show at 7:00 Monday will convince me on Wednesday to pay them for half the week for some emergency or other.
That is the last I am likely to see of them.

Corruption in Haiti is honest.
In the Dominican Republic they all set not just their own price, but what they perceive as your price. Both will rise at Christmas.
Haitian corruption will be the same this week as last and next.

A (lucky) Haitian who finishes school but does not enter "higher education" leaves at age 21with a typical academic achievement of a 1st year U.S. college student. (Bit skeptical about this, but that is what I have been told.)
One time I bought 30 Chicklets @ 1 peso a piece. The person serving (mid twenties)punched into the calculator 1 *30 =, then she read the result before announcing what every Haitian would have rightly assumed.
God's honest truth!

O.k., now I really start to get bigoted!

I bet that given a choice of 100 pesos per day for a year, or 1000 pesos now, the average Dominican moto-concho dude would take the 1000. There seems to be no connection in the Dominican mind between actions today and happenings tomorrow.
This criticism is not scientific, justified nor negative. The reason a lot of people who read this message board live in Dominican Republic is because they yearn to ?live for the day.? I applaud this culture, but it is totally different to an average Haitian outlook. For whatever reasons, Haitians seem to be more motivated. (Other than the by dancing, drinking and having a good time) This last point is why I love Dominican epublicI have lots of stories which serve to illuminate nothing more than a small corner of one person's experience.
However these things made me chuckle:

If I tell Haitians 7:00 AM Monday, in my experience they will be there around 7:00pm Monday.
Not so with Dominicans, for the most part.
The ones that do show at 7:00 Monday will convince me on Wednesday to pay them for half the week for some emergency or other.
That is the last I am likely to see of them.

Corruption in Haiti is honest.
In the Dominican Republic they all set not just their own price, but what they perceive as your price. Both will rise at Christmas.
Haitian corruption will be the same this week as last and next.

A (lucky) Haitian who finishes school but does not enter "higher education" leaves at age 21with a typical academic achievement of a 1st year U.S. college student. (Bit skeptical about this, but that is what I have been told.
One time I bought 30 Chicklets @ 1 peso a piece. The person serving (mid twenties)punched into the calculator 1 *30 =, then she read the result before announcing what every Haitian would have rightly assumed.
God's honest truth!

O.k., now I really start to get bigoted!

I bet that given a choice of 100 pesos per day for a year, or 1000 pesos now, the average Dominican moto-concho dude would take the 1000. There seems to be no connection in the Dominican mind between actions today and happenings tomorrow.
This criticism is not scientific, justified nor negative. The reason a lot of people who read this message board live in Dominican Republic is because they yearn to ?live for the day.? I applaud this culture, but it is totally different to an average Haitian outlook. For whatever reasons, Haitians seem to be more motivated. (Other than the by dancing, drinking and having a good time) The last point is why I love this place the most.

Like I say, I am not normally given to generalizations like my racist unlce Sandro, but I am being honest as well as superficial.
What do you think?
 

Chip

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With respect to the opinion about Haitians being more honest than Dominicans, that is unlikely based on my experience. The more abject poverty and lack of a social network to take care of them will cause them to keep prices low in order to eat. Dominicans typically aren't worried if you like their prices because they know they can get a free meal at the neighbor's or sister's house. Put the Haitian in the same sitiuation and they will typically treat you like a Domincian - this based on personal experiance.

Another thing is this issue of Haitian education. While I have met some highly educated Haitians at my gyjm who are students at Puccma, for the most part the majority that I have met for the most part neither read nor write nor speak French nor much Spanish for that matter either. This is by far the majority of the cases you will find in the DR. Haitians typically don't come here to the DR if they are highly educated, they go by the thousands to Florida every year.
 
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