Tourism must adapt?

Berzin

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Nov 17, 2004
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Economist Pavel Isa stated that "the tourism sector is pushing itself out of the market because the focus is now on high-end tourism and there is no attention being paid to mass priced tourism". Some questions-

1) Do you fell this is true? How is high-end tourism hurting or helping the overall tourism sector?

2) By mass priced tourism, does he mean the package tours that AIs thrive on?

3) What role does the independent traveler play in all this?
 

aegap

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Mar 19, 2005
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1) no , helping (e.g. prime time at the last episode of the apprentice, 'free' advertisement in places like MSNBC, NBC, and travel magazines (ie. Travel and Leisure, New Yorker) and news paper (New York Times, Wall Street Journal, etc), etc for high-end resorts is actually great for attracting the masses. Also there is a big hole in your premise: 'high-end tourism' can be 'mass price tourism'. They often time go hand in hand (i.g the new 2,000 room Moon Palace resort with a Jack Nicklaus course, Paradisus Palma Real resort, the two new NH hotels going up)


3) More independent travelers are actually atracted (see the 'free' advertisement)
 

Berzin

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Nov 17, 2004
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1) no , helping (e.g. prime time at the last episode of the apprentice, 'free' advertisement in places like MSNBC, NBC, and travel magazines (ie. Travel and Leisure, New Yorker) and news paper (New York Times, Wall Street Journal, etc), etc for high-end resorts is actually great for attracting the masses. Also there is a big hole in your premise: 'high-end tourism' can be 'mass price tourism'. They often time go hand in hand (i.g the new 2,000 room Moon Palace resort with a Jack Nicklaus course, Paradisus Palma Real resort, the two new NH hotels going up)


3) More independent travelers are actually atracted (see the 'free' advertisement)

The premise is not mine, it belongs to the economist who stated this.

There is a difference between high-end and mass tourism, I am just not sure what Pavel Isa meant by this as he did not state what these differences are.
 

Beads

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May 21, 2006
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These high end places pop up all the time. As I said in a another post just because your charging more doesn't mean people with more money will come.

Most people want something called VALUE for their money.

I have no doubt all these high end resorts will have people visiting them and maybe even create a few jobs. The resort might even make money when all is said and done.

I just can't see these expensive places being booked to capacity though and everyone seems to think losing the moderate spending vacationing masses for these high end spenders is the answer to their problems.

They will spend very little outside their resorts (why pay for things already included in your high end hotel?)

How is this going to help the average dominican or even the economy of the country? Besides the resort staff nobody benefits.
 
Feb 7, 2007
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It is a general agreement of professionals in the tourism that once Cuba opens up, DR will suffer a lot in the tourism business.

So the DR is trying to attract high-end and a-lot-paying tourists, so once masses go to Cuba there will be at least somebody left to come to the DR, virtually speaking.

This means lots of high-end development and expensive hotels. This does not add "local" economy, but brings money in to the state coffin via taxes.

But DR has now long been pricing itself out of the market. When you charge 70 dollars a night and 400-dollars a night resort opens next door, you raise your prices to 90 or 100. It's a tag-along thing. Same category of hotels (even same hotel chains) have lower prices in Cuba and Mexico than they have in the DR. Even slight increases in room prices have very adverse impact. DR is on the extreme edge of price elasticity, so a small increase in price disproportionately decreases number of tourists.
 

aegap

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Mar 19, 2005
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This means lots of high-end development and expensive hotels. This does not add "local" economy, /quote]


Hell yeah it does:

1) You need more employees per guest

2) A more professionally core made up of employees that actually studied as say PUCMM as oppose to came out of high school got some experience and so you hired them.

3) got to pay better to that larger, more proffessional core of employees

more regular employees per tourist for the upkeep and the like.

5) More goods per tourists



6) etc.
 

jrzyguy

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May 5, 2004
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It is a general agreement of professionals in the tourism that once Cuba opens up, DR will suffer a lot in the tourism business.

I have to agree on this 100%. As a more indie minded traveler i would LOVE to do Cuba!! I have been tempted to do it despite it being illegal for me...but it ended up being too expensive (i am indie AND on a budge).

I do pay a little more in DR as in inde traveler (no free meals or drinks etc)...but i dont mind cuz i believe i get a better experience.

I can understand the AI traveler tho. Most just want to get away in the winter to somplace warm..and that will give them the most bang for their buck.

I think it would make sence to have a balance. Places for the Masses, Places for High End, and places for the Indie's.
 

Kyle

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Jun 2, 2006
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i've seen the same thing going on before in panama, costa rica and belize. the DR is a very diverse country with plenty of nearby competitors. it has always had appeal with regular tourists but now it's eye is on the rich and famous and not on the local economy. will dominicans make any more money at a 2000 usd a night hotel than they would at a 100 usd a night hotel ?
jrzyguy, cuba is the final frontier (where's the star trek music when i need it) and i can't wait either !!
 

aegap

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Mar 19, 2005
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I think it would make sence to have a balance. Places for the Masses, Places for High End, and places for the Indie's.

Exactly, i.e. PUNTA CANA, PUNTA CANA, Cabarete, lol. Places for the Masses and Places for the Indie's are actually helped in attracting tourist by those places that truly cater to the high end (e.g. Cap Cana been on prime time on the Network TV as is was during the Finale of the Apprentice wit Trump helps the tourism industry at every level)

Annoucements like the followingff means DR becomes known in the traveling public concience as a main stream places to travel.

As Oppose to the following, ..

Where your going? The Dominican Republic

Where, is that in Africa? No, its a country on the Same Island as Haiti.

Ew! Dangerous! Your Crazy! You should go To Jamaica, Mexico, Barbados or something instead! I mean, haven't you like heard about Haiti lately or something?
 
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Beads

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May 21, 2006
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This means lots of high-end development and expensive hotels. This does not add "local" economy, /quote]


Hell yeah it does:

1) You need more employees per guest

2) A more professionally core made up of employees that actually studied as say PUCMM as oppose to came out of high school got some experience and so you hired them.

3) got to pay better to that larger, more proffessional core of employees

more regular employees per tourist for the upkeep and the like.

5) More goods per tourists



6) etc.

Good luck with that one. People in the expensive high end resorts will be putting money into the resort owners pockets they wont be shopping outside the resort. Large hotels will be much the same as what now are AI's. They will have their own rooms with restaurants, places to shop, direct access to the beach which will be serviced by them. There won't be any outside competition thus meaning the local economy wont see much of it if anything. True some new jobs will be created but at the lowest wage possible to pay these people are these high end places will be run by big companies.

Also as stated once Cuba opens up there will be more competition as Cuba is in a close proximity to the US and thus it will be another option.

So people will look at where they get the best VALUE for their vacation money. This doesn't always mean the cheapest place but if 2 places are essentially the same and one is 20% cheaper its a no brainer where your going to choose.
 

suarezn

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Feb 3, 2002
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I think The DR will continue to be a low end destination for a while. When Cuba opens up The DR will definitely take a hit, but I believe this will be a temporary hit (a couple of years) as I believe Cuba will become expensive very quickly. Keep in mind that the Cuban population is highly educated and they are not going to work for peanuts once they have a choice of jobs.

Also remember Cuba is only new to Americans, as Europeans, Canadians, etc have been going there for a long time now.

Now the new high end luxury hotels is just a natural progression of the market. The DR cannot just live on low end AI's. This segment is already pretty saturated, so the next step is obviously to go high end and boutique (i.e. Spa and golf resorts). Regardless, The DR needs to diversify its offer and most importantly its economy. Tourism is a very risky industry to base your economy on as it is so fickle and the smallest thing will affect it greatly (i.e. some disease scare - SARS, perception of the place being dangerous, a big hurricane, etc).
 

aegap

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Mar 19, 2005
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Also, ...most of the high end stuff comes with lots of residential type stuff included ( i.e. PUNTACANA, Cap Cana), which means the following: people are making a bigger investment than simply renting a room, they are way more likely to become connect with the country i.e. visit more frequently, travel to around, start businesses, do the type of philanthropic stuff some wealthy people like to do, etc,. .frequently invite family and friends to explore the country, etc.

This people are so much invested in the country that they are WAY less likely to stop visiting on a whim.
 

Robert

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Good luck with that one. People in the expensive high end resorts will be putting money into the resort owners pockets they wont be shopping outside the resort. Large hotels will be much the same as what now are AI's. They will have their own rooms with restaurants, places to shop, direct access to the beach which will be serviced by them. There won't be any outside competition thus meaning the local economy wont see much of it if anything.

This assumption is based on what facts?
Have you been to Punta Cana in the last 12 months?

It's booming. Most of the smart educated Dominicans involved in tourism are moving east. This part of the country offers some great opportunities and prospects. The east coast is growing rapidly and is very different to the rest of the DR. It's more like Orlando, it looks new and was built from scratch so avoided many of the issues that plague other parts of the country.

Unfortunately DR tourism for many years has been low end and tour operator driven. This model is not sustainable. The DR has no option but to change, it cannot afford to keep chasing this market.

The US$ yield in the low end market is very low, so resort operators and owners do not always have the funds to invest in a better product to increase their US$ yield. All you end up with is low end resorts with cheap tourists. The resort spends as little as possible on operating costs and the tourists spend as little as possible on their vacation.

A high end product helps lift the mid-range market. It creates desire and that in-turn brings in more quality tourists. This is why Punta Cana is marketed as Punta Cana and not the Dominican Republic :)

Look at a little town like Cabrera, it's booming due to high end tourism.
The place looks great, it's clean, local Dominican businesses are doing well, the mayor is very supportive, the local tourism and business owners work together to better the community. It's a model of success. This type of tourism is sustainable and growing.

The difference is a typical family will spend US$20,000 for a 2 week vacation in Cabrera as opposed to a similar size family that will spend US$2,000 going to Playa Dorada. The US$20,000 family will inject a lot more money back into the local community, because they are a different type of tourist, they get out and about, they come for a different experience. They go home, they talk about their excellent vacation, cute town of Cabrera etc etc. The referral and repeat business in this market is huge.

High end tourism is relatively new to the DR and it comes with it's own set of issues etc etc. But most people involved in tourism will tell you it's better for the country and locals benefit more from this type of tourism. The DR has a long way to go, but right now it has same fantastic products and has created a buzz that is attracting huge investors. All this activity can only be good, the question still remains is it sustainable and can the DR continue to compete in the market?

My opinion... Yes, despite the possibility of Cuba opening up in the near future.
 
Feb 7, 2007
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20.000 bucks for 2 weeks vacation in cabrera? Uwwff... I don't think you spend that kind of money even in Casa de Campo...
 

Robert

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20.000 bucks for 2 weeks vacation in cabrera? Uwwff... I don't think you spend that kind of money even in Casa de Campo...

Welcome to the world of high end villas :)

Cabrera has plenty of them and business and the local community are booming!
 

planner

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Sep 23, 2002
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I think Robert that you are right on the money!!!!

Low end - all inclusive - Tour Operator driven - this model is not sustainable.

The latest - the Hotel Association of Playa Dorada has decided to start charging all trucks, vans and buses entering the complex - EVEN TO DROP OFF THE TOURISTS ARRIVING FROM THE AIRPORT! That is because they supposedly need money to repair the private road that leads to the hotels....

They don't spend any more money maintaining the infrastructure then they absolutely have to! They get mostly cheap tourists buying a cheap package and then they want to whine about the quality.

We need a change - I like what I see happening in other parts of the country. Not ALL of it , but a lot of it is good!
 

Conchman

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Jul 3, 2002
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Besides the resort staff nobody benefits.


I highly disagree with this, what about suppliers and businesses that these hotels do business with? Food suppliers, liquor vendors, gift shop operators, office equipment, kitchen equipment, telephone company, pest control, garbage removal, contractors, taxis, the list goes on and on. What about excursion operators? What about the 'ripple effect' of places that get money from resort staff spending like local bars, colmados, etc.
 

aegap

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Mar 19, 2005
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Those industrial laundry businesses, tax accountants/ bookkeepers, lawyers, professional landscapers for the more high-end resorts, professional pool operators, plumbers, painters, carpenters, electricians, interior designers and their aides for the more high-end resorts, event managers and their aides for the bigger resorts, professional fitness instructors and masseurs for the more high-end resorts, delivery guys, IT guy/contractor for the bigger resorts, etc, ..
 

tflea

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Jun 11, 2006
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I agree with your ideas Robert, and share your optimism.
As for Cuba; it's been open to everyone but US people anyway.
The highest price I've heard so far for a villa in Cabrera is $100K a week. Now that is a nice crib.!