Tropical Storm Noel - Why?

Chris

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Poster Chirimoya posted this in the Noel thread a few days earlier and I thought to wait awhile before I tried to explain. Now that relief efforts are underway, here is an explanation. It is neither technical, nor does it make complete sense, as weather forecasting is not an exact science.

Diario Libre is criticising the Met. Office for not providing enough warning, but my impression is that this was not forecast by international meteorologists either, so the DR weather people should not be singled out, or anyone for that matter, because of the way the storm developed. Do the weather pundits agree?

No-one can be criticized for not seeing the way that this storm was going to develop. Tropical storms are a regular occurrence in the Caribbean. This one did not show any of the normal tropical storm tendencies, like, it had little steering currents and the darn thing did not move.

Saturday night before the storm, Noel was churning around in a shearless environment - what this means, is that there were no steering currents, i.e., winds. This is not usual for a tropical system in our area. They usually move, they have winds and they rain and move off. It was an excruciatingly slow moving system, at slower than 5 miles per hour. When it got close to the DR, it was not even a tropical depression. At this point the meteorologists were taking cursory notice ... a late season tropical depression, so what. But what no-one knew is that it was going to stop, strengthen and rain and rain and rain.

So, it arrived on our south side doorstep on Sunday. There were no signs that it was going to be anything more than a simple, normal, everyday Caribbean weather system - here today and gone tomorrow.

But, it sat itself down and kept dumping rain .. and strengthened to a tropical depression. Now the meteorologists started taking notice, although there were hardly any winds, no significant weather systems nearby that one could try and draw conclusions from and it gave every sign that it was going to dump some rain and move off as normal.

Except it did not. It sat itself down, making more and more rain, and developing a longer and longer tail end.

Guidance that we had then, was ... with weak steering currents, the movement could be erratic on Monday and Tuesday. Note, we're talking about movement. Not a dead stop. Caribbean storms don't stop, they move (or so I thought before Noel). But what we knew, is that if a tropical system stops or pauses, it strengthens. So, Noel strengthened to a tropical storm. But again, oh heavens, very little wind, none of the usual indicators so, the guidance that we had was that it is not going to develop into a full blown hurricane here on our doorstep. And it did not. But this was 'negative guidance', i.e., not what it was going to do, but what it was not going to do.

With no appreciable winds, the track was highly uncertain and the intensity was impossible to forecast, but, it sat down and continued to pour down rain ....

So, the center of the storm moved by us and moved by Haiti at the dizzying speed of perhaps 5 miles per hour. And then the tail end did not leave. It kept making more and more rain - it was like a locomotive falling off the tracks and all the other cars behind it, piling up.

Meteorological guidance was ... various possibilities, including a split of the mid-level and low-level centers ... doubt on the forecast track ... doubt on the intensity ... further west, more intense ... etc., etc. In other words, the meteorologists were flummoxed and flabbergasted and their data did not support anything (and I include this poor hobbyist). The words used for Noel in the meteorological circles, was meandering, spinning, splitting, perhaps this way, perhaps that ... no-one knew.

The center was near the southeastern peninsula of Haiti early Monday. And still the tail end bucketed down, and grew and grew. Reminded me of Pinocchio's nose! At this time we had some tropical storm force winds extending up to 115 miles out from the center. This thing was growing and take into account that we all were guessing where the center really was.

It rained for a number of days. It soaked the DR. It soaked the people, created floods, mudslides and caused all kinds of miserable suffering.

So, now that the storm is off of our coastline, I have a theory. It is not a scientific theory but it is something that I mentioned before in my time on the weather forum. It is normal for the Caribbean to have hurricanes. Hurricanes bring fresh water in order for the islands to save up a fresh water stock and replenish ground water. The DR has not had a hurricane for a long time. So, Noel came along, noticed that the ground water in the DR is depleted, and sat around trying to address the balance.

In conclusion, with all of our excellent coverage, satellites, remote weather sensors and monitoring stations, radar etc etc., there is no way that we can accurately predict to 100% certainty what the weather is going to do. Sometimes we're lucky and a system follows a path and shows indicators that we've learnt to interpret. Sometimes a weather system simply does what it wants to do.

Or, are we dealing with extraordinary circumstances? The floods in Tabasco in Mexico, the floods in the midwest of the US, the melting of ice on both the North and the South pole, wildfires in Canada and atmospheric carbon dioxide increasing much faster than expected. What are we really dealing with?
 
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Great job Chris, I agree with a lot of your synopsis. I looked on Saturday morning from the internet cafe in Punta Cana and it looked like a small thunderstorm on the satelite images that was not going to amount to much. There was no pattern to speak of.
 

ben jammin

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thanks chris. noel just passed by the coast of north carolina where i live and was a cat1 hurricane but was far enough offshore that we got only minor winds and some (small)local flooding. we had a storm here(dennis)some years ago that the eye passed over us 3times! had never seen one go south in my life so am with you on the unpredictability of these storms. have been following the threads on noel and offer thoughts and prayers to all affected. will be in DR in one month and cannot wait! thanks again
 

Hillbilly

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I Knew it!! Chris, your comments confirmed my mention of David, the Cat 5 hurricane that crossed the DR in '79 (August). It just sat off of San Cristobal and grew and grew. For like six or seven hours it sat and grew. THEN it crossed the DR (Just like Noel).

I know, after seeing the gruesome tapes on TV last night that the final toll is nowhere near at hand. I expect it to reach the high three hundreds.

And once again, San Cristobal is one of the major disaster areas...

Thanks Chris, that was a good review of how it happened. The blame game among government officials won't solve anything. Perhaps the local assistance will lessen the horror and desolation.

HB
 

Chirimoya

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Great analysis, Chris - thanks.

One observation is that this demonstrates that preparedness is key. When the storm started hitting the DR, we all said - "if it's bad here, what's it going to be like in Haiti" - but in the end, Haiti, despite its far greater vulnerability, had some time to prepare, unlike the DR, and the death toll has been much lower there. A friend wrote to me from Haiti saying the Civil Protection corps there had done a really good job warning people and organising evacuations.

Even if warning isn't possible, it also underlines the value of having a well-stocked emergency kit throughout the season, because as Noel showed us, last-minute panic buying is not always possible.
 

Chip

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According to the NHC archive, Noel was deteremined to be a tropical depression at 11 pm Saturday night with winds between 39 to 79 mph. I think the fact that it went relatively unreported is indicative of the Dominican government's typical failures. What's also bothersome is that it wasn't paid much credence by the Domincan press, even though it was just south of the island. One's best bet is to check the NHC webpage frequently which I will do from here on out.

NOEL Graphics Archive
 

Chris

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You need to see this in context Chip. Tropical Depressions are a dime a dozen during hurricane season in the Caribbean. Noel was number 16. If the various weather guidance systems that I subscribe to, including the fellows at Noaa, could not give us accurate guidance (and their guidance has continued to improve during my 15 or so years in Hurricane prone areas and is currently exceptional), the DR met office cannot do better - working on Sundays or not. There should be no blame. I worked on the Saturday and the Sunday and I did not see it coming. Let's face it, we were all caught unawares with a run of the mill late season tropical depression and paid very little notice to it - as it did not show any signs of being anything more than a late season tropical storm at the worst. The surprise came in the slow moving system and the fact that it basically stalled out with no steering currents and sat and strengthened on top of us.

There is also a danger .. we see so much of weather systems being blown up to crazy proportions and so much of fear mongering in the conventional press, that it takes a while to push the panic button. If this system declared itself earlier, we could have pressed the panic button. But it did not. Even tropical storms are a dime a dozen. We don't press panic buttons for run of the mill tropical storms. They rain and move .. this one did not move. It just rained.

The issue is that we usually have time to prepare. This time we had no warning and no time to prepare, evacuate or make arrangements for areas in danger. Like Chiri says, we have to stress that our own preparedness should not be neglected.
 
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Rocky

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I watch the Sat pix all the time , watching the regular weather, and that much more when there are storms,. and I have never seen a storm that lingered like Noel did.
It was like it was crazy glued to us.
 

Hillbilly

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I totally agree with Chris. This storm was unlike any (Except David in '79!) It just sat there from Friday until Monday...and like Chris said: It just rained, and rained and rained..

Pants down? Yeah, probably. Will we learn anything? Probably not too much.

HB
 

pyratt

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According to the NHC archive, Noel was deteremined to be a tropical depression at 11 pm Saturday night with winds between 39 to 79 mph. I think the fact that it went relatively unreported is indicative of the Dominican government's typical failures. What's also bothersome is that it wasn't paid much credence by the Domincan press, even though it was just south of the island. One's best bet is to check the NHC webpage frequently which I will do from here on out.

NOEL Graphics Archive


You're absolutely correct sir. Not to mention, the info on skeetobiteweather.com showed wind fields and direction as well.

Since Dean blew by I have made three trips to SD bringing MREs, self generating lights & radios, water purification kits and H2O storage to my GF and her family.

I had her fill her barrels 48 hours before the storm hit as well.

(Teaching preparedness for professionals is one segment of my business)

Just like here in the USA, the DR can't depend on government or media for everything. People need to be proactive living in the tropics and reading these weather sites is not rocket science.....they do that for us.
 

Chip

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At the very least they could have warned the people in low lying areas in the southwest of the country to expect potential flooding because of the rain. At least this would make them aware and hep them be on their toes to make a decision to move to higher ground. I understand that people make not take much heed, Katrina is a good example of that, but nonetheless people would have been able to make a decision as to whether to move to high ground or not.

As for Katrina, people were warned but many decided to stay and once it really started the exodus overloaded the available transportation infrastructure. Now of course everybody wants to blame the government for poor decisions on their part.

I can tell you that many people decided to stay for Hurricane Hugo in 89 in my hometown Charleston and many ended up regretting it, yet I don't remember anyone blaming the gov't for a stupid decision on their part.

The real lesson of all of this - don't live in flood zones. In fact Leonel is planning to forcefully remove many communities from low lying areas. The problem is keeping the people out - they have relatively short memories and many are uneducated and don't understand the dangers.
 

Chirimoya

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The red alert was issued around midday on Sunday, and it included the usual warnings for people living in low-lying areas.

I agree that the government has to be less tolerant of informal settlement in flood plains and other vulnerable areas, but easier said than done.
 

Chip

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The red alert was issued around midday on Sunday, and it included the usual warnings for people living in low-lying areas.

I agree that the government has to be less tolerant of informal settlement in flood plains and other vulnerable areas, but easier said than done.

You are right. the reason these areas are so attractive to the poor is they are typically next to a stream of some sort, which allows them to have a water source and a place to throw their waste and the fact that these areas are typically unoccupied. Why couldn't the gov't. reate a housing subdivision, with central sewer and water available with people only left to claim a plot and build their house, albeit to some minimum standards? - because it would cut into their "profits".

In fact as a Civil Engineer, I would be glad to design such a community, free of charge and even oversee the construction. I have no doubt that it would work. I'm sure that if I called and offered my services, they would ignore me though.
 

Chris

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You're absolutely correct sir. Not to mention, the info on skeetobiteweather.com showed wind fields and direction as well.

This does not tell us rain rate and anything about stalling out or speed. Wind fields inside of a system, shear and steering currents are totally different animals. Skeetobite makes excellent graphics but it is going to be a long time before their new methods are generally accepted, if at all. My hat is off to them however for the quality of their graphics and their pioneering work in this field.

The next is not specifically in response to pyratt.

Let's go back the inherent uncertainty in this system. This all happened from Saturday evening, through to Monday, 28th and the following are excerpts from actual guidance ....

first advisory - both the track and intensity forecasts have greater than normal uncertainty at this time.

next advisory - it is worth reiterating that the uncertainty level is high.

next advisory -the depression certainly seems on the verge of becoming a tropical storm ... but the available data at the moment are inconclusive as to whether or not this has yet occurred. A Quickset pass did not retrieve any reliable winds of tropical storm force.

next special advisory - everything was adjusted in this one .. position, intensity, center, and track - and all were best estimates.

next advisory analyzing aircraft data - earlier today the circulation center reformed closer to the deep convection and the cyclone strengthened. The position fixes from the aircraft have bounced around a bit. The system is estimated to be moving slowly North-NorthWest or 330/4. It is not clear how much intensification will occur. Beyond about 48 hours the models diverge with Global Models estimating the system to be near or over Cuba.

Back to my comments - After this 48 hours, it was still raining heavily in the DR. I am completely amazed that with this type of meteorological guidance, posters are still convinced that some 'government' somewhere did us wrong and they could have done better. I have never seen such a high level of uncertainty in meteorological guidance. We simply did not know and our instruments, charts, measurements etc., did not tell us.

Pyratt, you are really welcome to rewrite our hurricane preparedness document that we update each year before hurricane season. As I think I mentioned before, this would be a labor of love for the DR1 community.

As for me, I'm going to sit back a while and ponder on how little we know.
 
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La Mariposa

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I totally agree with Chris. This storm was unlike any (Except David in '79!) It just sat there from Friday until Monday...and like Chris said: It just rained, and rained and rained..

Pants down? Yeah, probably. Will we learn anything? Probably not too much.

HB

Noel was worst than Georges ??
 

Lambada

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I'm certainly not blaming ONAMET or NOAA or anyone but last Saturday night exactly a week ago I put this post up - post 167 on the Hurricane season 2007 thread.
http://www.dr1.com/forums/weather-beyond/63020-hurricane-season-2007-a-17.html#post572640

This was as a result of someone alerting me to (heading has now changed btw)
STORM2K • View topic - Threat Areas: New England / Eastern Canada
The post at 9.17 pm (i.e. before it went to TD status) said 'anyone reading from Haiti needs to be advised that catastrophic flooding is likely on the southern Peninsula. This cyclone should move quite slowly during the next 24-48 hours, allowing for up to 15-20 inches of rainfall in the mountains'.
That poster (D.Ortt) knew a lot more about all this stuff than me (you can google him if interested). So...........the info was out there if one hunted, or at least hints at the level of rainfall. Just that he got the country wrong......:cheeky:
 

Rocky

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Noel was worst than Georges ??
It depends on who you're talking to.
George killed more people and was an actual hurricane.
Noel inflicted damage in a way I don't ever remember seeing, with it's record rainfalls and flooding.
One could debate about which was worse, but the net result is they were both devastating storms, and Noel snuck up on us and caught us unprepared.
 

Hillbilly

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In addition to Rocky's comment, I am not sure that Georges killed more people than Noel. A lot of people had warnings about Georges, a hurricane. What Georges did was tear apart roofs etc., plus the rains, and then the floods.
Noel was like a gas leak. It was there but nobody paid much attention until it exploded.

Remember, even with the Green Alerts, people in low-laying areas are urged to evacuate.
Everyone knew where they lived. That is, these people knew that they were living in flood-prone areas.
The tragedy was that the rains did not SEEM to be all that much, and the floods, coming during the wee hours of the morning, caught so many unawares. Such as La Cueva del Duey that got wiped out at 1:45 in the morning.
It'll still take a day or so before we get a good picture, or perhaps just a better picture.

HB

A note on David for those that were not here. David sat out in the sea in front of San Cristobal, nearly wiping that city off the map. After five or seven hours of gathering strength, it crossed the island, going over the mountains and coming out around Montecristi, where it got recharged and went on to more destruction.
Around here, (Santiago) there were heavy gusts that shook trees and rattled windows, and some rain. Nobody in this area (say La Vega, Moca, SFM, Mao, Montecristi) knew anything about how much rain had fallen in the mountains
I drove out to my farms the next morning at 5 a.m., like normal. My foreman and I walked the farm --a total 'blowdown'--and made plans for the trucks to come and pick up the fruit the next day.
HAHA.
After a leisurely breakfast, we assigned the tasks for clean up and took off. As we reached the gates of the farm, we saw a neighbors thatched roof shed floating away.
The foreman shouted that the river was overflowing and we had to get outta there.
Long story short, they had opened the flood gates at the dam (to save the dam, so they said) but nobody knew. That, plus what was coming down from the Amina and Mao watersheds was more than sufficient to flood the valley.

Fortunately it was daylight. But the flooding was so great that hundreds of farm workers were killed.

HB
 
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Chirimoya

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Hurricane Mitch in Central America in 1998 was another slow-moving storm where the devastation was more due to incredible amounts of rain than the actual hurricane force winds.