I have read a lot about the government's increasing surpluses over the past few months and was just wondering if anyone had any insight on how the expenditures for cleanup and rebuilding operations are affecting the surpluses and the DR economy overall. Are these expenditures anticipated in the annual budget? Or are they paid for on a case by case basis?
- Thread starter RonS
- Start date
Hurricane & Tropical Storms and the Economy
I would venture to say, judging from past performance by the political entities within the Dominican Government, tha a goodly portion of all the contributions will end up being siphonedoff by incumbents where there is no "oversight" being conducted by the contributing parties.
In other words, this is a series of "cash cows" that the government just won't be able to resist.
Texas Bill
In other words, this is a series of "cash cows" that the government just won't be able to resist.
Texas Bill
In 23 years of providing rescue and recovery services to third world countries and migrant people all over the world...I've never been stone walled by a more corrupt and unfeeling government.
Donated supplies from TS NOEL disappeared before ever making it to the barrios and campos. Money donated from other countries was STOLEN by the very DR governmental moochers who extended their hands like the poor in the streets of the DR. They gave the hungry........ rice and oatmeal, but no fresh water or a means to cook it.
And now, they lie again.....claiming to have warned the people.
Serious questions were asked of General Luna after TS Noel. He walked away from the microphone instead of those answering questions. The DR government has NO PLANS for any emergency, no budget for relief after an emergency and no desire to develop one. Their lack of action speaks louder than any words...
TWICE this year....Government officials have left the country's poor to the devices of Mother Nature in hopes she will wash away the country's burden of the destitute....and have done so while claiming to have "under estimated" the strength of two storms even though their access to modern day forecasting is only a click away.
(yes, I know..Dominican weather people don't work on Sundays)
If in fact you live in the DR, I urge you to prepare yourselves....to "get a plan", to secure your home, store emergency food and water and know exactly what you are going to do when the real storm comes....perhaps the DR1 group can get together and provide "shelter" for each other depending on where you live on the island....in othe words, have safe shelter in different areas with DR1 friends.
This year's storm tracks took the majority of every tropical system within striking distance of the DR, most became Category 3 or higher systems. The TWO storms that devasted parts of the island were "nothing". I say this being a survivor of two CAT 5 storms, a CAT4 and numerous CAT1 hurricanes...I was deployed to New Orleans and Mississippi post Katrina. Bloated bodies, starving and scared aggressive dogs....the stench and the sights some of the worst I've ever seen.
The day the DR is hit by a real hurricane, life in the island's affected areas will be surreal and seeing the government's inabilty and lack of desire to respond after this season should bode well as a warning as to their plans for the "big one"....it's not a matter of IF, it's only a matter of WHEN.
Donated supplies from TS NOEL disappeared before ever making it to the barrios and campos. Money donated from other countries was STOLEN by the very DR governmental moochers who extended their hands like the poor in the streets of the DR. They gave the hungry........ rice and oatmeal, but no fresh water or a means to cook it.
And now, they lie again.....claiming to have warned the people.
Serious questions were asked of General Luna after TS Noel. He walked away from the microphone instead of those answering questions. The DR government has NO PLANS for any emergency, no budget for relief after an emergency and no desire to develop one. Their lack of action speaks louder than any words...
TWICE this year....Government officials have left the country's poor to the devices of Mother Nature in hopes she will wash away the country's burden of the destitute....and have done so while claiming to have "under estimated" the strength of two storms even though their access to modern day forecasting is only a click away.
(yes, I know..Dominican weather people don't work on Sundays)
If in fact you live in the DR, I urge you to prepare yourselves....to "get a plan", to secure your home, store emergency food and water and know exactly what you are going to do when the real storm comes....perhaps the DR1 group can get together and provide "shelter" for each other depending on where you live on the island....in othe words, have safe shelter in different areas with DR1 friends.
This year's storm tracks took the majority of every tropical system within striking distance of the DR, most became Category 3 or higher systems. The TWO storms that devasted parts of the island were "nothing". I say this being a survivor of two CAT 5 storms, a CAT4 and numerous CAT1 hurricanes...I was deployed to New Orleans and Mississippi post Katrina. Bloated bodies, starving and scared aggressive dogs....the stench and the sights some of the worst I've ever seen.
The day the DR is hit by a real hurricane, life in the island's affected areas will be surreal and seeing the government's inabilty and lack of desire to respond after this season should bode well as a warning as to their plans for the "big one"....it's not a matter of IF, it's only a matter of WHEN.
Wow! I had an awful feeling that it was bad, but I had no idea it was that bad. I've been observing the government and civil authorities in the DR for a number of years now, and I am just amazed at how consistently corrupt they are and at how they seem to consistently get away with it.
It's worse than "that bad"...
I'm just not at liberty to say in this forum...I'll say this though....they don't buy body bags. (witnessed first hand) Religion is a shield they hide behind.
Specially THIS goverment, that works on a PR base, every disaster is a political giveaway, cost-free frontpage news with pictures, more money to play with, more long talkshows about how to do it better next time AND absolutely don't change anything, else you loose all those free "extra's"
And all that to "lure" people to vote for you, because you are doing so much good
NOT !
Investing in bodybags and other necessary items ?? please no !! let the international community send money to buy them after a disaster (at a 1000% higher price from a friendly seller - preferable family or partymember) and make them disappear asap so you don't have them when needed and you can again ask for money.
Same as that dam.
Maybe i am stupid, but if a lake is THAT high (after a rainperiod) you normally lower slowly the waterlevels, you don't wait for the next event/disaster to occur OR IT MUST BE A PLANNED THING !!!
A.
And all that to "lure" people to vote for you, because you are doing so much good
NOT !Investing in bodybags and other necessary items ?? please no !! let the international community send money to buy them after a disaster (at a 1000% higher price from a friendly seller - preferable family or partymember) and make them disappear asap so you don't have them when needed and you can again ask for money.
Same as that dam.
Maybe i am stupid, but if a lake is THAT high (after a rainperiod) you normally lower slowly the waterlevels, you don't wait for the next event/disaster to occur OR IT MUST BE A PLANNED THING !!!
A.
Right on the mark DunHill, the current party in power (which claims to be the party of progress) has had less time in power than the other two major parties but they've stolen at least ten-fold what the other two stole combined. Leonel then goes on TV with his forked tounge and and big words. The fact is that right before and during TS Olga, most of the top government authorities were criss-crossing the country campaigning for his re-election. Y
your comments about the Taveras Dam is right on the mark as well, those in charge should be rotting in jail but the government is going to cover them up. But they'll go around bringing little bags of chicken and pesos buy the very people they destroyed with their incompetence and disregard.
Sometimes I'm actually ashamed to say I'm Dominican, for real :ermm:
your comments about the Taveras Dam is right on the mark as well, those in charge should be rotting in jail but the government is going to cover them up. But they'll go around bringing little bags of chicken and pesos buy the very people they destroyed with their incompetence and disregard.
Sometimes I'm actually ashamed to say I'm Dominican, for real :ermm:
Missing factor.. EDUCATION!
May God continue to bless the DR, regardless of it's Leaders. Be it Olga, Noel or any other issue, the existing governing party and its slick, silver-tounged leader, LF, will continue to maintain a certain level of popular support from the people. I am amazed, where ever I may go in the country, people still are on board with him and that damm chant, 'e pa lante que vamos". I can only think of one single common factor, Lack of Education, and the masses continue to be lead like sheep to slaughter. Perhaps that is why he continues to cut the budget on Education. He wants to keep the "STUPID", that way he can continue to lead and steal at will. Unfortunately Venezuela and Haiti went through similar steps, and you see where they are now! Wind storms, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods are all open channels to grab the CHECKBOOK and begin their favorite exercise, making MO' MONEY... got to love it, I admire them for their onions
May God continue to bless the DR, regardless of it's Leaders. Be it Olga, Noel or any other issue, the existing governing party and its slick, silver-tounged leader, LF, will continue to maintain a certain level of popular support from the people. I am amazed, where ever I may go in the country, people still are on board with him and that damm chant, 'e pa lante que vamos". I can only think of one single common factor, Lack of Education, and the masses continue to be lead like sheep to slaughter. Perhaps that is why he continues to cut the budget on Education. He wants to keep the "STUPID", that way he can continue to lead and steal at will. Unfortunately Venezuela and Haiti went through similar steps, and you see where they are now! Wind storms, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods are all open channels to grab the CHECKBOOK and begin their favorite exercise, making MO' MONEY... got to love it, I admire them for their onions
Prove that the budget for education has been cut when it has in fact risen by over 200% since Leonel took office!
Read the third post here.
Show me the data where it states that the education budget has been cut. Other than people of opposition parties spreading lies and the gullible believing them, other than those group of people; its clearly understood that education has seen an increase in funding. As if that is not enough, every data set further proves that it has increased, whether such data comes from the government or private organizations evaluating education since 2000 to the present year.
So please, show me the data of your unfounded and misleading claim.
-NALs
No, you don't need to feel this way. We know it's only the politicos, all parties, which behave in the way described. Some more smooth tongued than others. But people are catching on fast. Unlike SamanaJon I'm finding more and more people here in Puerto Plata are saying a definite 'Leonel - OUT'.
The only problem is...............are the alternatives any better?
Dominican president leads with 47%, Gallup poll says
Nope. This is as good (or less bad, depends on points of view) as it gets. Beyond Leonel, there is nothing good.Lambada said:
-NALs
If it was that clear cut why would you suppose he is still stacking the cards by appointing ex-Reformistas to plummy jobs? Particularly after the hue & cry which went up the last time he did it?
Presidente Fernández integra más opositores al gobierno
I am not a big fan of Leonel, however I vividly remember the days of Hipolito, and I really hope Miguel Vargas won't be elected... I still believe the PRD to be much worst than the PLD...
As of Amable and the PRSC, it's a joke, the guy doesn't have a chance on his own... He'll end up allying with Miguel Vargas, I guess...
I would like to push it slightly further: I don't think that corruption in the DR is a matter of which party is in power. It is a matter of having Dominicans themselves in power. They will be corrupt no matter what political color they display, it is in the culture...
This has really turned out to be a great discussion! Just two cents from a frequent visitor: It seems clear to me that NALS is right: "This is as good as it gets. Beyond Leonel there is nothing." and it also seems clear that Squat is right: "It is a matter of having Dominicans themselves in power. They will be corrupt no matter what political color they display, it is in the culture..."
It is just sad that the hope that things would be different under this President has not become real, and it is even more sad, that the Dominican people have not exercised political will and empowered themselves to insist that thier political leaders change this 'culture' of corruption.
It is just sad that the hope that things would be different under this President has not become real, and it is even more sad, that the Dominican people have not exercised political will and empowered themselves to insist that thier political leaders change this 'culture' of corruption.
I tend to agree that those 'in power' regardless of party affiliation, display a level of corruption which is totally self-defeating and seems to have gone unchanged from the days of the colonisers who were deliberately underpaid by Spain with the expectation that they would survive or even thrive by what they could make for themselves from this country whilst they were governing it. (Note: this is NOT saying all Dominicans are corrupt. Just those 'in power'). I think some of the smaller political parties are showing promise but they have insufficient following to get elected and insufficient resources to back a campaign.
Maybe this is in the nature of 'top down' political organisation? Now maybe if we had 'bottom up' political organisation things would change........? And maybe, given the original topic & not wanting to stray too far from it, I should stop at this point!
The gallup poll quoted by Nals was I believe carried out before the Santiago tragedy & somehow I think one carried out now (despite 'short memory syndrome') would be different. What I'm picking up, certainly in Puerto Plata, is a level of anger about the Tavera opening which seems to be directed against the President himself and not his appointees.
Maybe this is in the nature of 'top down' political organisation? Now maybe if we had 'bottom up' political organisation things would change........? And maybe, given the original topic & not wanting to stray too far from it, I should stop at this point!
The gallup poll quoted by Nals was I believe carried out before the Santiago tragedy & somehow I think one carried out now (despite 'short memory syndrome') would be different. What I'm picking up, certainly in Puerto Plata, is a level of anger about the Tavera opening which seems to be directed against the President himself and not his appointees.
Because they are ex-reformistas, as in not really influential in the popularity of the PRSC, the party that is in the worst position according to every poll that has been made in the past year, relative to the position of the PLD and PRD.
He could've continue the age old tradition of appointing every single job position only to party loyalist, but then he would be criticized for that too.
Damn if you do, damn if you don't.
-NALs
The next polls will be in January, so until then we will have to wait and see. In any case, this can be remedied by reminding the population that the country has more damns. As far as everyone is concerned, only the Tavera damn has received attention from the media, and especially from the opposition parties; the latter attempting to politicize the situation to their favor. Of course, they were careful to not even mention what happened with the other damns; and yet they say that what happened with the Tavera damn is proof of the inability of the PLD to govern.Lambada said:
The country has eight damns and only one is mentioned by the opposition parties. Its as if the other seven damns don't even exist, but had any other damn encountered any problems, they too would be in the lips of the opposition who have no sound arguments against the Leonel administration.
This is politics as usual, desperate opposition parties that lack any real valid criticism of the current administration and thus, prefer to focus on short term shock and awe while attempting to block the sun with a finger or, should I say, keep the other damns that had no problems, out of people's attention.
Afterall, its pretty hard to say that what happened with the Tavera damn is a sign of the inability for the PLD to govern, when the other seven damns had ZERO problems!
-NALs
Nals, have a look at the Olga thread for posts by dag about some of the other dams. I think we're all a bit concerned about every single other dam both maintenance & operational management in the light of what is coming out about Tavera.
And as to paucity of ideas in the Presidential campaign - I cannot hope to improve upon the Editor of Diario Libre:
Opinión - A.M. - Campaña
Yes, but its obvious that the occurrence at the Tavera damn was not due to maintenance, but rather someone was not doing their job; while the other "someone's" at the other damns were. I'm confidently sure that the Tavera reservoir was not the only one that was filled.
Had there been maintenance and operational management problems across the board, then more than one damn would had been mismanaged during the Olga storm and yet, that didn't occur. One damn had a problem, the other seven were operated correctly.
The problem during one incident in one damn means little on the greater schemes of things, and that is something the opposition parties are trying to cover with their criticisms, attempting to make the Tavera incident appear as the normal way damns are managed under the current administration.
Regarding the Diario Libre article, its right! The opposition parties have absolutely nothing on Leonel. Leonel, on the other hand, can pin point to many of his accomplishments starting with stabilizing the economy after its worst economic crisis ever, the reduction in inflation which is back to single digits after reaching a whopping 50% in 2003, the stabilization of the exchange rate, the return of consumer and investors confidence on the economy, the decrease in interest rates which has facilitated the issuance of new loans, the decrease in unemployment, the decrease in poverty which a recent UNESCO report mentioned, etc.
Furthermore, there are the inauguration of hundreds, if not thousands of projects nationwide that range the gamut from urban beautification projects nationwide, finishing of infrastructural projects such as the bridge that connects the Cibao airport to Autopista Duarte, the overpass in Paso de Moca on the Duarte, yes, the Metro; the Malec?n of Puerto Plata and Circuvalacion Sur in the same town, the progression of the Samana highway, tens of playgrounds for kids in marginalized neighborhoods in Santo Domingo, the inauguration of the Mauricio B?ez bridge in San Pedro de Macoris, the progress in the extension of the Autopista del Este and the Autopista El Coral and the bulevar in Bavaro/Punta Cana, the inaguration of the El Catey airport, so on and so forth; it is a long list.
Or the improvement in foreign investment which is most visible in the opening of new resorts and real estate projects, particularly in Santo Domingo, Juan Dolio, and Bavaro/Punta Cana. Improvement in the electricity sector with hundreds of circuits nationwide now being on the 24 hours plan. The initiation of the breakfast for students in most schools, the inauguration of the various regional campuses of the UASD and the upgrading and inauguration of important faculty buildings, library, etc at the main campus in SDQ.
Again, the list is quite long.
-NALs
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Anyone else tired with Nals fighting the political fight on every thread that he can find? Note the sentence .. one incident, one dam. Well Nals, I have news for you ..
One Incident, One Dam, Tremendous Destruction.
I do not care which political flunkey pushed what button. These people killed people! But I guess it means little in the greater scheme of things eh? After reading your posts, I'm beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists .. It might just have been deliberate.
(And each time Nals refers to the dam .. he writes damn. No, I certainly am not grammar police, but I sometimes recognize a freudian slip when I see one!)