Three Events in Dominican History

Great topic!

1) Allowed the US to "purchase" the DR in 1870, though technically this was apposed on the US side not the Dominican side (it was rejected by one vote).

I personally believe that the DR being a protectorate, or US state, would have changed this country tremendously. You look at the examples of Puerto Rico, Alaska or even Hawaii who have benefited from being a state.

2) The election of Trujillo in 1930. Would have changed 30 years of history,directly, and 60 years of history, indirectly.
This one is kind of cut and dry. Who's to say another tyrant wouldn't have appeared? We don't know, but could another tyrant have been as bad as Trujillo?

3) Considering Trujillo was elected: Not allowed Balaguer to be elected and continue the "Partido Dominicano" oligarchy in the mid 60's and early 70's. That would have changed a lot.
Juan Bosch was great candidate. He did have a more socialist leaning, but wasn't a socialist. Though he was still feared for his ideals. Plus, a new way of thinking would have served this country well. Instead, Balaguer continued the status quo. Many of the DR's criminals, millionaires and skewed concept on life and politics were created during Balaguer's years.

1) The British founded Hispaniola.
2) They taught the slaves that they were not white or mulatto, but black and inferior.
3) They kept the number of slaves down so that the country remained predominately white.



j/k... LOL

These are my three...

Three events. Hmm...here goes..

1. A succesful conclusion to the revolt of 1857 against Baez's government without it having to resort to Pedro Santana for help. This alone would have prevented the Republic's reannexation to Spain in the 1860s, preventing the destruction of plenty of property (not the least of which was the burning of the entire city of Santiago) and the excessive loss of life and talent which also resulted. Also, Trujillo might not have been born seeing as how his paternal grandfather came during the reannexation period saving the dominican people even more tears. The liberal ideals of the ringleaders of the revolt of 57 might have also permeated into dominican society as a result not to mention the possible weakening of caudillo politics which was definitely exacerbated by the myriad of local caudillos produced by the the War for Restoration.

2. The prevention of the assasination of President Caceres. Caceres has acheived some stability in the the dominican republic of the early 20th century by overpowering many local caudillos and instituting a myriad of public works (many of his public works programs were continued under the American occupation which recieved total credit for them even though they were on the drawing boredd since the Caceres presidency but unable to be instituted due to the instability that followed Caceres' death. The national highway system is one example). Caceres' rivals were under the false impression that by assasinating hime they'd be able to hold on to the reigns of power. Instead, Caceres' assasination set off a wave of instability which finally culminated with the American occupation. Had Mon continued to live it's possible that the Republic would have acheived all the benefits bestowed upon it by the American occupation without having to actually having to go through said occupation.

3. The succesful culmination of the revolt of 1965 without American intervention. It's been proven time and time again that the "Constitutionalists" who revolted were not communists (even though there were communists who later joined them out of sympathy for their cause once the revolt began to include civilians) but simply individuals who wished to return to their people the government they had chosen via an authentic democratic process. Had they been successful it's safe to say that there would be more respect for dominican institutions and the law in general.

These are my three...

Three events. Hmm...here goes..

1. A succesful conclusion to the revolt of 1857 against Baez's government without it having to resort to Pedro Santana for help. This alone would have prevented the Republic's reannexation to Spain in the 1860s, preventing the destruction of plenty of property (not the least of which was the burning of the entire city of Santiago) and the excessive loss of life and talent which also resulted. Also, Trujillo might not have been born seeing as how his paternal grandfather came during the reannexation period saving the dominican people even more tears. The liberal ideals of the ringleaders of the revolt of 57 might have also permeated into dominican society as a result not to mention the possible weakening of caudillo politics which was definitely exacerbated by the myriad of local caudillos produced by the the War for Restoration.

2. The prevention of the assasination of President Caceres. Caceres has acheived some stability in the the dominican republic of the early 20th century by overpowering many local caudillos and instituting a myriad of public works (many of his public works programs were continued under the American occupation which recieved total credit for them even though they were on the drawing boredd since the Caceres presidency but unable to be instituted due to the instability that followed Caceres' death. The national highway system is one example). Caceres' rivals were under the false impression that by assasinating hime they'd be able to hold on to the reigns of power. Instead, Caceres' assasination set off a wave of instability which finally culminated with the American occupation. Had Mon continued to live it's possible that the Republic would have acheived all the benefits bestowed upon it by the American occupation without having to actually having to go through said occupation.

3. The succesful culmination of the revolt of 1965 without American intervention. It's been proven time and time again that the "Constitutionalists" who revolted were not communists (even though there were communists who later joined them out of sympathy for their cause once the revolt began to include civilians) but simply individuals who wished to return to their people the government they had chosen via an authentic democratic process. Had they been successful it's safe to say that there would be more respect for dominican institutions and the law in general.

Passage of Bon? 's suggestions for a federal republic at the Moca Convention in 1855
Avoiding Trujillo (difficult due to historical circumstances)
Not cutting short Balaguer's last term....

Just guesses...What if....

HB

Hillbilly said:

Passage of Bon? 's suggestions for a federal republic at the Moca Convention in 1855
Avoiding Trujillo (difficult due to historical circumstances)
Not cutting short Balaguer's last term....

Just guesses...What if....

HB

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What difference do you think a federal republic would have made?

What would the country look like today if there had been no Trujillo?

Do you really think cutting Balaguer's term short was that pivotal?

Lovelylocs said:

1) The British founded Hispaniola.
2) They taught the slaves that they were not white or mulatto, but black and inferior.
3) They kept the number of slaves down so that the country remained predominately white.


j/k... LOL

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All this would do is create a legacy of hate and racism, whereby the shoe changes from foot to foot periodically - I somehow don't find this even remotely funny.

1.US annexation of the D.R.-US Statehood by the 40's.

We're closer to the US and we're pretty large and well populated with considerable natural resources and pro-yankee since independence.

I think we would have been a full-fledged state despite the black population and language differences.

But we wouldnt have much of a culture of today,just language,religion and some arts & folkore.We would have been subject to the military draft and US wars as well as Jim Crow laws.

...or maybe gone left and became a haven for african americans living in the south.

I think every dominican at one point has thought (or more accuraltey wished)about what the nation would be like if it were under US rule.


2.Balaguer losing the elections after '65.

The rightwing,racist,xenophobic,classist mentality of the upperclass white dominican society/military personel would not continue to exist as a bigoted,kleptocratic click with a strangehold on politics and business.

A nation more aware of its racial heritage and leaning more towards the anglo-carribean neighbors than to the US and Spain and Latin nations...
A
t the very least more aware and proud of being a unique afro-latino nation like no other in this world.

A more educated,democratic,law-abiding and economically prosperous nation.

Think Costa Rica.

3.The PRD being dismantled after Guzman's suicide.

The bane of the DR's mainstream political life is chopped up into dozens of smaller,cleaner political movements after Guzman kills himself and goverment probes into PRD corruption.

The party splits in fear -each accusing the other-with every boss having their own party.

Strong,progressive leaders ..Jacobo,Pena Gomez, are not held down by the populist rhetoric and barrio style trouble makers of the "Tigueraje,Inc" aka the PRD and earn the Presidency multiple times.

The country never inherits the rock throwing,tire burning political mentality and the lowerclasses focus on acheiving through education and small business rather than constant "huelgas" after an goverment initiative.

Ogre of the Caribbean said:

What difference do you think a federal republic would have made?

What would the country look like today if there had been no Trujillo?

Do you really think cutting Balaguer's term short was that pivotal?

Click to expand...

I think a federal republic would have lead to succession from the north and US intervention and most likley annexation of the entire country.

No trujillo,=Democratic,socially minded,economically prosperous,more racially aware Dominican Republic.Costa Rica with a Military and 15X more blacks basically.

Balaguer being allowed to go through 98 and 2002 would have meant more economic reform,more public works projects,privitization,a dollarized economy,free trade with the US five or ten years before it became a reality,permanent military bases in respond to the Venezuelan issue and Haiti's constant state of chaos.

Politically,PLD marginilized,PRD beaten and defeated most of its leadership return to the United States and Puerto Rico.Pena Gomez lives in panama in seclusion till his death from cancer.Jacinto eventually takes the reign upon the death of balaguer and the PRSC and the white is right,money talks,public works over goverment services mentality continues to dominate every day life for dominicans until Leonel gets enough support sometine in 2008 to nab the presidency on a Social Spending platform.

Lovelylocs said:

3) They kept the number of slaves down so that the country remained predominately white.

j/k... LOL

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Where is the change in that one?

The number of slaves was very low, even as a percentage of the population. The reason why there is so much African blood mixed into the Dominican population is due to migration of descendants of slaves from other countries to the DR, not of slaves that were brought to the DR or the colony of Spain it once was.

Most Dominican blacks/mulattoes have their African origins in either:

1. Haiti (migration that has become relatively intense post-1970s)

2. US (the libertos who were settled from Puerto Plata to Saman?, this was mostly of Haitian political design since it occured under Haitian occupation because the Haitian government found it difficult to get Haitians to move to the then much more impoverished eastern part of the island).

3. British West Indies (the cocolos who inhabit the southeastern part of the country, most came in the late 19th, early 20th century in search for sugarcane cutting jobs).

Very very few Dominicans are actual descendants of slaves that were brought to what eventually became the DR.

So, what you are suggesting is what happened, although the reason was not to keep the country white but because for most of the country's history (this is including the pre-independence period) the only valuable economic activity of any size was tied to cattle and ranching and not much slaves were needed for that, at least not compared to what happened in Haiti with the sugar industry.

Funny enough, the surge in blacks post-independence in the DR was tied to the development of sugar plantations in the eastern part of the country and with this I come full circle with this post.

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What the heck, let me make this an on-topic post.

If I was some sort of God and had the power to change any 3 events in Dominican history, they would've been:

1. The invasion by Boyer that lasted 22 years would had never occurred. That would've eliminated the bulk of time and energy wasted in all the invasion attempts and the economic ruin that was subsequent in many of them.

2. Would had honored the debt owed to the Europeans in the early 1900s, especially to the Germans. That would had avoided the first invasion of the DR by US troops, which led to the complete reorganization of the Dominican economy to suit American interests. Also, this could've had an impact on US regional power since the DR was a BIG reason for the US declaring the Monroe Doctrine.

3. A focus on industrialization and economic growth from the moment the country achieved its independence from Spain in 1821.

I think most of the problems that affected the country could had been avoided had those 3 (among a few other) things been in place.

-NALs

Should have been the only post

NALs said:

What the heck, let me make this an on-topic post.

-NALs

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Some historians state that by 1790 the population of 125,000, residents broke down into 40,000 white landowners, 25,000 black freemen, and 60,000 slaves, whereas in St. Domingue half a million enslaved Africans constituted 80% of the total population.

So published history says one thing and you Nals say another, but who cares?? It's His-Story

Lovelylocs comments were dumb and didn't need a response, which usually brings the race-baiters and the DR vs. Haiti idiots out of the closets.

Nothing against you Nals or your beliefs in history, but many times its the off-topic statements and rants that flares-up.

Ricardo900 said:

Some historians state that by 1790 the population of 125,000, residents broke down into 40,000 white landowners, 25,000 black freemen, and 60,000 slaves, whereas in St. Domingue half a million enslaved Africans constituted 80% of the total population.

So published history says one thing and you Nals say another, but who cares??

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I would question the above numbers, mainly because it does not mention mulatos nor mestizos. I would recommend reading the following post by our resident historian, Baracutay, who has dedicated his life to the study of the Dominican peoples, and especially their Domincan roots.

http://www.dr1.com/forums/511031-post112.html

As far as what Nals says, I agree wholeheartedly, the way he stands by his arguments, in spite of apparent facts, calls into question his judgement and authority on the matter. For my part, he is evolving into the next Mirador, who somehow felt that by mere repetition, heresay and conjecture could be transformed into facts.

As far as what the OP stated. My three recommendations are:

1. Should have passed an anti-monopoly law.

2. Whoever established the kickback system of paying politicians(Balaguer?) should have been hanged(figuritively speaking).

3. Whoever organized the Caribbean World Series this year in Santiago should be relegated to his previous job(driving a carro publico).

Ricardo900 said:

Some historians state that by 1790 the population of 125,000, residents broke down into 40,000 white landowners, 25,000 black freemen, and 60,000 slaves, whereas in St. Domingue half a million enslaved Africans constituted 80% of the total population.

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Ricardo900 just to back up what you wrote.....

As a result of the stimulus provided by the trade reforms, the population of the colony of Santo Domingo increased from about 6,000 in 1737 to approximately 125,000 in 1790. Of this number, about 40,000 were white landowners, about 25,000 were black or mulatto freedmen, and some 60,000 were slaves.

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Dominican Republic : Country Studies - Federal Research Division, Library of Congress

Look under The First Colony. Last paragraph.
source: Library of Congress.

Ricardo900 said:

Some historians state that by 1790 the population of 125,000, residents broke down into 40,000 white landowners, 25,000 black freemen, and 60,000 slaves, whereas in St. Domingue half a million enslaved Africans constituted 80% of the total population.

So published history says one thing and you Nals say another, but who cares?? It's His-Story

Lovelylocs comments were dumb and didn't need a response, which usually brings the race-baiters and the DR vs. Haiti idiots out of the closets.

Nothing against you Nals or your beliefs in history, but many times its the off-topic statements and rants that flares-up.

Click to expand...

According to Frank Moya Pons, by 1790 there was a population of 180,000, albeit he doesn't break the numbers by race or by freemen vs. slaves. I do wonder where the mulattoes are in your estimates, though.

In any case, the massive emigrations that took place from the DR to Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Venezuela since then lead to a depopulation of the country, to such a degree that by 1812 the population of the DR was barely 63,000!

Hm, that was in 1812 and the country got its independence in 1844.

I doubt all, even most, of them were former slaves and its obvious that a huge chunk of the population that existed in the country in the 1790s had disappeared by the early 1800s.

Frank Moya Pons, being the most respected Dominican historian, I accept as more reliable when it comes to Dominican history.

-NALs

A.Hidalgo said:

Ricardo900 just to back up what you wrote.....


Dominican Republic : Country Studies - Federal Research Division, Library of Congress

Look under The First Colony. Last paragraph.
source: Library of Congress.

Click to expand...

Primo, it certainaly looks better, what with the mulattoes mentioned, however, how does one account for the gross discrepancies in the amounts of each group? Also, how authoritarian could the Library of Congress be on this matter? From the acknowledgements, it appears that they used a variety of sources to compile therir info about the DR, in other words, who knows their real credentials or expertise when the real goal of the reports is to have some sort of standardized info about each country? My two chelitos.

Chip said:

Primo, it certainaly looks better, what with the mulattoes mentioned, however, how does one account for the gross discrepancies in the amounts of each group? Also, how authoritarian could the Library of Congress be on this matter? From the acknowledgements, it appears that they used a variety of sources to compile therir info about the DR, in other words, who knows their real credentials or expertise when the real goal of the reports is to have some sort of standardized info about each country? My two chelitos.

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We are going off topic here but still a worthwhile endeavor as long as its not "what I or we think things are".
The following is the bibliography for the Dominican Republic that was used for the Library of Congress country study. I do think there is some authority there....just a partial list and look who is also there, Frank Moya Pons

Atkins, G. Pope, and Larman C. Wilson. The United States and
the Trujillo Regime. New Brunswick: Rutgers University
Press, 1972.

Black, Jan Knippers. The Dominican Republic: Politics and
Development in an Unsovereign State. Boston: Allen and
Unwin, 1986.

Calder, Bruce J. The Impact of Intervention: The Dominican
Republic During the U.S. Occupation of 1916-1924. (The
Texas Pan American Series.) Austin: University of Texas Press,
1984.

Campillo P?rez, Julio G. Historia Electoral Dominicana, 1848-
1986: El Grillo y El Ruise?or. Santo Domingo: Editora
Corripio, 1986.

Crassweller, Robert D. Trujillo: The Life and Times of a
Caribbean Dictator. New York: Macmillan, 1966.

Diederich, Bernard. Trujillo: The Death of the Goat.
Boston: Little, Brown, 1978.

Fagg, John Edwin. Cuba, Haiti, and the Dominican Republic.
(Modern Nations in Historical Perspective Series.) Englewood
Cliffs, New Jersey: Prentice-Hall, 1965.

Knight, Melvin M. The Americans in Santo Domingo. (Studies
in American Imperialism.) New York: Vanguard Press, 1928.

Logan, Rayford W. Haiti and the Dominican Republic. New
York: Oxford University Press, 1968.

Mej?a Ricart, Gustavo Adolfo. Biograf?a del Caudillo Pedro
Santana. (Colecci?n "Temas Hist?ricos," 1.) Santo
Domingo: Fundaci?n Mej?a Ricart--Guzm?n Boom, 1980.

Moya Pons, Frank. La Dominaci?n Haitiana, 1822-1844.
(Colecci?n `Estudios.') Santiago, Rep?blica Dominicana:
Universidad Cat?lica Madre y Maestra, 1972.

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Dominican Republic - Bibliography

I'm with Chip with his last comment.

They should've included Frank Moya Pons essay titled "Historia y Medio Ambiente en la Isla de Santo Domingo" where he clearly states the population numbers of the years I presented in my last post.

-NALs

Attempted to add to my previous post, but time constraints prevented it.

One does need to wonder why there is a discrepancy between the Library of Congress (claiming a pop of 125,000 in 1790) vs. the most respected Dominican historian, Frank Moya Pons claiming a pop. of 180,000 for the same year. To that, one must take into account the depopulation that lead to a pop. of 63,000 in 1812. That was a good 10 years prior to the Haitian invasion by Boyer and the subsequent introduction of thousands of former black American slaves to the primarily Puerto Plata - Saman? areas of the country and everywhere in between.

By 1844 the country gained its independence without expelling the thousands of black Americans (known as libertos) that were settled by the Haitians during the occupation. Following that, the sugar industry began to take shape at the end of the 1800s and that created an infusion of blacks from the British West Indies (cocolos). By the 1900s, their labor was supplanted by massive numbers of Haitian migrants and, in a nutshell, that leads us to today.

Its not too hard to imagine that most of the African blood in the typical Dominican is NOT from slaves that were brought to the country, as I previously mentioned.

-NALs