Public Works 2004-2008

NALs · Feb 6, 2008

In the following link you will have access to a book in Adobe Acrobat form that presents some of the public works that were executed and/or finished in the 2004-2008 time period.

Leonel Fern?ndez' Administration Public Works 2004-2008 (PDF)

-NALs

A.Hidalgo · Feb 7, 2008

as? como el ?nfasis en grandes obras p?blicas, a expensas del gasto social.

Translation

as well as the emphasis on large public works projects at the expense of social spending.

The above is from author and historian Bernardo Vega answering a question about President Fernandez's speech, were the president seems to take the Balaguer mantle, marking a shift in his political philosophy......eerrr elections are only a few months away.

Bienvenidos al Hoy Digital

Dominican Republic News & Travel Information Service

NALs · Feb 8, 2008

What Bernardo should've said was that the large projects attract the bulk of the attention.

Its always interesting to compare public perception with what actually occurs.

Most people think large projects compose the majority of public works and yet, most of the public works projects are relatively small, consisting mostly of health centers, education centers, aqueducts, electrification of rural areas, so on and so forth.

The same inconsistency between public opinion and the reality of public spending can be seen when a close analysis of the national budget and how the funds are being allocated.

-NALs

Chip · Feb 8, 2008

I can name a few public projects:

Fulanos and los primos de fulano got a new house and jipeta and a cushy job making 20 times what the normal population makes at which he has to do nothing nor has any accountability x 5000. Impressive, no?

NALs · Feb 8, 2008

Chip said:
I can name a few public projects:

Fulanos and los primos de fulano got a new house and jipeta and a cushy job making 20 times what the normal population makes at which he has to do nothing nor has any accountability x 5000. Impressive, no?

Case in point!

Despite the fact that the vast majority of the government's expenditure is NOT in wages, some people seem to think otherwise.

-NALs :ermm:

CarpeDReam · Feb 8, 2008

Chip said:
I can name a few public projects:

Fulanos and los primos de fulano got a new house and jipeta and a cushy job making 20 times what the normal population makes at which he has to do nothing nor has any accountability x 5000. Impressive, no?

I guess some people just prefer to be bitter...

Anyway, here's LF's speech at his proclamation the other day...for anyone interested:

YouTube - PlataformaMorada1's Channel

Chip · Feb 9, 2008

CarpeDReam said:
I guess some people just prefer to be bitter...

Anyway, here's LF's speech at his proclamation the other day...for anyone interested:

YouTube - PlataformaMorada1's Channel

It is hard to take anybody seriously who defends government policies like here in the DR where politicians are paid more than politicians in the States and they are unaccountable, and unprofessional. Many don't even have an education. They don't respond to the public either.

Furthermore, they make a whole lot more their professional counterpart in the private sector - this is not found in other succeful Western governments. It boggles the mind of the ignorance of the people who can defend this, although I can understand that a poor uneducated person here can be hoodwinked, but when an educated person here defends idiotic and worthless policies such as this it seems apparent to all that this person or his family either directly or indirectly benefits from such policies.

Hipocrito Mejia · Feb 9, 2008

Some people make this thread look like a paid advertisement for the sitting government, when in fact, they are a bunch of crooks just like the groups that went before them. Sadly, we all have more of the same to look forward to.

Chip · Feb 9, 2008

Hipocrito Mejia said:
Some people make this thread look like a paid advertisement for the sitting government, when in fact, they are a bunch of crooks just like the groups that went before them. Sadly, we all have more of the same to look forward to.

Tell it like it is, thanks.

Texas Bill · Feb 10, 2008

I've said this before on a different thread, but that was a couple of years ago.

As long as there is the APPEARANCE of progress, regardless of the consequences, there will be those who will perpetuate that APPEARANCE with vigor.
There ais a marked difference between the APPEARANCE and the ACTUALITY of events.
To those who support ONLY the APPEARANCE of progress without delving into the ACTUAL progress, you have "tunnel vision" of theworst kind. you just don't face reality and that is a very sad thing indeed, for it represents a "blind following" of the suicidal tendencies of a population.
Remember the periodic suicidal actions of the Lemmings???
That is the path you follow.
You are more concerned with APPEARANCES than with ACTUALITIES.

So sad, too bad, you're mad.

Texas Bill

NALs · Feb 10, 2008

Chip said:
It is hard to take anybody seriously who defends government policies like here in the DR where politicians are paid more than politicians in the States...

More than politicians in the states? Which ones?

Does the Dominican president earns more than US$400,000 a year? George Bush, making US$497,521; using the most recent dollar/euro exchange rate of 1:1.45, certainly does! Source

All of this for what? War in Iraq, a so-so economy, reduction of many civil liberties? Oh oh... :surprised

How does that compares with the average income per household member, which in the US amounts to only US$26,036 a year! Source

The current president of France, Nicolas Sarkozy, doubled his own income to US$348,120, using the most recent exchange rate of US$1 = €1.45. Source

As of yet, France's economy is doing so-so.

According to the same source, the UK prime minister makes US$387,283!

Do I need to say that the UK's economy is also doing... so-so.

The head of state of Ireland makes US$449,655!

And please, cut the "in the West" this or that. Can can you explain this phenomenon of "the West" or should I say, the "successful West":

“…Human Services Agency is paying $95,000 a year in salary and benefits for one of Newsom's press aides…”

“…has been violating city law by paying the mayor's point man on transportation $203,814 a year - nearly $32,000 more than the law allows.”

Source

There's plenty more where that came from.

Chip said:
Furthermore, they make a whole lot more their professional counterpart in the private sector - this is not found in other succeful Western governments.

Not true at all. Compare apples to apples and you will find that many of the top managerial positions in the private sector pay as much, if not more than does similar positions in the government.

Chip said:
It boggles the mind of the ignorance of the people who can defend this, although I can understand that a poor uneducated person here can be hoodwinked, but when an educated person here defends idiotic and worthless policies such as this it seems apparent to all that this person or his family either directly or indirectly benefits from such policies.

When people run out of arguments, they either repeat the same thing over and over again and/or create an alibi to explain someone else’s position which contradicts your own.

Hence, your alibi for explaining other people refusing to align with your incorrect view point is that "only people who 'benefit' will defend the leaders of a country."

It can’t be that these people have access to information you don’t have. Of course not, because afterall, only people who “benefit” will defend the leader of a country, everyone who doesn’t “benefit” knows the truth.

This is unbelievable. Chip takes the analyses of Phillip Converse and turns them upside-down! Un-freaking-believable! Only on DR1! Ha ha :cheeky::surprised

BTW, if you don’t know who Phillip Converse was, then I suggest you become acquainted with such.
-NALs

NotLurking · Feb 10, 2008

NALs, a US senator is paid TWICE as much as a DR senator (without getting into the PORK of either the DR or US senator)

The DR Senator's salary is:

RD$125,000 base monthly pay
RD$50,000 representation expense
RD$25,000 travel allowance
RD$25,000 lodging
Total per month = RD$225,000
Total per year = RD$2,700,000 or ~US$79,411 (@RD$34 to US$1)

And the US Senator's salary is for US$169,300 or ~RD$5,756,200 (@RD$34 to US$1)
So a US senator is paid about TWICE as much as a DR senator.

BTW Both the DR and US senators receive daily diet allowance of ~US$100 and was not included as part of the salary.

NotLurking

Chip · Feb 10, 2008

This has already been discussed before extensively. First, the politicians here in the DR are getting a lot more than the US80k per the "pork", second US politicians aren't legally allowed to take from the "pork" and they are vigorously prosecuted when they do, third I wasn't comparing the politicians here to congressmen, but to a typical commisioner or mayor in a middle size town in Florida (as that is more equivalent to the size of their constituency), fourth, why does a no good worthless politician here need to make so, so, so, much more than his professional counterpart here in the DR?

There is no reason, sorry fellows, this is gross abuse pure and simple and you guys may try to paint it as something else but you aren't fooling anybody else.

Chip · Feb 10, 2008

I would like to reiterate that I find it odd that no one still has been able to address this fact that they pay the politicians here much, much more than the competitive rate for other professional's pay. In most countires, the poltiicians actually make less that their professional counterparts and yet here in the DR politicians here make so much more when in fact this is a poor country with little resources to be generous.

So tell me why this no good politician here needs to make a base salary of US90k and actually will bring in thousands more(as discussed before) when a policeman here will not even make US3k a year?

The fact is the politiians here should not be making more than US20k a year tops and the policeman should be making on average US6-7k a year here.

This is a poor country that cannot afford to misuse it's funds and can hardly expect to pay Western wages for inferior services rendered(yes, inferior). If some say that all the good political candidates will emigrate, my answer is look at the Taveras dam tragedy if you think that political cadre here are actually doing something for all the money they are being paid and therefore I say good riddens. In fact do us all a favor and renounce your citizenship too and don't let slam shut on your arse on the way out.

cobraboy · Feb 10, 2008

Chip said:
It is hard to take anybody seriously who defends government policies like here in the DR where politicians are paid more than politicians in the States and they are unaccountable, and unprofessional.

Chip, do your figures include the expenses for a US elected officials staff and office expenses? What about a DR politician? Same?

I look at the net expenses of a politician, not just his/her salary.

Chip · Feb 10, 2008

cobraboy said:
Chip, do your figures include the expenses for a US elected officials staff and office expenses? What about a DR politician? Same?

I look at the net expenses of a politician, not just his/her salary.

No, I didn't look at expenses, I was also comparing the senators here to politicians of similar size constituencies, say like a mayor or county commisioner. This is much more reasonable than comparing them to a US senator or congressmen. However, I'm without a doubt sure that the Dom politicians here will use this ploy of comparing apples to oranges( salaries - as did Nals) to convince the people that they are worth the money as their American counterpart in nuevaiyol make such and such amount. This is fine for most of the population here who are ignorant of the real facts, but I'm not.

NALs · Feb 11, 2008

Chip said:
I was also comparing the senators here to politicians of similar size constituencies, say like a mayor or county commisioner. This is much more reasonable than comparing them to a US senator or congressmen.

What?

aranoid:

Compare mayors to mayors, governors to governors, senators to senators, and congressmen to congressmen.

Otherwise, you are comparing apples to oranges.

-NALs

Chip · Feb 11, 2008

NALs said:
What? aranoid:

Compare mayors to mayors, governors to governors, senators to senators, and congressmen to congressmen.

Otherwise, you are comparing apples to oranges.

-NALs

Says you and the politicians here in the DR Nals, but what about the rest of us? Remember, we are not like the rest of the population here who are easily hoodwinked with some pretty sounding complicated fisna words.

Workload is dependent on the size of the constituency or area, not "titles". Income should be paid according to workload and performance as it is done in the rest of the civilized world.

NALs · Feb 11, 2008

Chip said:
Workload is dependent on the size of the constituency or area, not "titles". Income should be paid according to workload and performance as it is done in the rest of the civilized world.

What you described is called commission!

I have yet to see a politician anywhere working on commission! :cheeky:

-NALs

Chirimoya · Feb 11, 2008

Does getting paid according to number of voters or constituents count?

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