- Thread starter Chip
- Start date
Laws allowing fiscal abuse
I believe there are three laws that allow this practice Chip:-
The Law of 'Precedent'
irate:The law of 'Non Accountability'
irate: The law of 'My friends are bigger than YOUR friends so 'NAFF OFF'
irate:(There is also the law of 'You touch me mate & I'll see you in jail when OUR party comes into power' but that is normally swept under the carpet!:ermm:!) ~ Grahame.
Seriously now, there are laws on the books that punish abuse of power, improper use of funds and assets of the state, etc. However, the above statement by BB sums up the main reason why all these corruption cases are swept under the rug.
Every once in a while, they put on a dog and pony show, and prosecute some of these crooks, but in the end the result is always the same. More recently, I can cite the case of Eligio Jaquez (minister of agriculture during Hipo's administration) and friends, who were prosecuted for rigging a greenhouse program for farmers, so that their friends and relatives all ended up being awarded the greenhouses. The prosecution's attempt to get a conviction was so weak, that it was laughable, so of course they were all acquited. Both sides win, because the crooks get off, and the prosecution makes it seem as if the opossing party is trying to root out corruption.
The most memorable case of all, was that of former president Salvador Jorge Blanco, who was twice convicted and sentenced to 20 years in prison for all kinds of corrupt acts attributed to his administration (1982-86). He actually ended up being imprisoned for 2 months, and after a ridiculous number of appeals, was granted a full pardon by Hipo in 2001.
If there IS Bayx-** then someone has stolen it to play Dominos on!! :ermm: ~ GRahame.
It's interesting because (as with just about everything else) the laws already exist (transparency, oversight, tender regulations, etc). It's just that nobody follows them because nobody enforces them.
The traffic situation is demonstrative of Dominican culture in general. There are plenty of rules but nobody follows them and they are enforced sporadically, if at all. It's actually pretty sad.
I can't think of a single thing that has improved during my short time on the island. And it gets harder and harder to have any optimism at all for the future of the country. Leonel (the savior) has been president for 8 of the last 12 years and, in spite of being the self-proclaimed smartest man in the universe, hasn't done **** for anybody. He brags about macroeconomic measurements which don't mean anything on the street. GDPs can grow but people can become poorer, just look around. Sadly, most Dominicans blame their lot in life on imperialism and "afuera". In actuality, most of our wounds are self-inflicted because the culture does not look down on lying, stealing, and cheating. Until they do, things will not change.
Sorry to wander off topic, but "Doctor" (law degree from UASD) Fernandez has turned out to be a real embarrassment. (If anyone wants to disagree please send a PM. I don't want to entirely hijack the thread.)
Back on topic: All the laws in the world won't change the culture. Dominicans don't look at their politicians with disgust, they look at them with envy.
PS: We need 100 more Nurias.
RHM
The traffic situation is demonstrative of Dominican culture in general. There are plenty of rules but nobody follows them and they are enforced sporadically, if at all. It's actually pretty sad.
I can't think of a single thing that has improved during my short time on the island. And it gets harder and harder to have any optimism at all for the future of the country. Leonel (the savior) has been president for 8 of the last 12 years and, in spite of being the self-proclaimed smartest man in the universe, hasn't done **** for anybody. He brags about macroeconomic measurements which don't mean anything on the street. GDPs can grow but people can become poorer, just look around. Sadly, most Dominicans blame their lot in life on imperialism and "afuera". In actuality, most of our wounds are self-inflicted because the culture does not look down on lying, stealing, and cheating. Until they do, things will not change.
Sorry to wander off topic, but "Doctor" (law degree from UASD) Fernandez has turned out to be a real embarrassment. (If anyone wants to disagree please send a PM. I don't want to entirely hijack the thread.)
Back on topic: All the laws in the world won't change the culture. Dominicans don't look at their politicians with disgust, they look at them with envy.
PS: We need 100 more Nurias.
RHM
Last edited:
So true! Even the aforementioned ex-convict and former president, Salvador Jorge Blanco is now considered a highly respected man. He parades around at PRD functions and is celebrated as a party leader.
Scandall: I think Leonel has only turned out to be an embarrassment for those of you who expected a miracle. As a Dominican I "knew" from the beginning things weren't going to get that much better. The only thing I wanted him to do was reign in the economy as it was so out of control when Hippo (He's done that, albeit at the cost of great increases in taxes, spending, etc...but at least things are stable).
I knew corruption wasn't going to be dealt with, because they are extremely corrupt themselves. I knew nobody from The PRD / PPH was going to jail because they may be back in power one day and you don't want payback.
We do need a lot of more Nurias, but as you've already seen you can denounce all you want, but if nobody enforces it then what? Nuria has denounced many cases of corruption and None have been pursued to the end...Maybe a little bit of fuss is made for a few weeks and then it fades away.
I propose the following:
Someone / people who live there could for instance get hidden cameras and record cases of corruption (which should not be hard to find) and then post them on the web (Youtube or something of that sort). Nowdays this is the best medium to get the word out on things that are going on...Maybe enough heat will be generated that they will think twice about the petty corruption stuff.
On a personal note if Guillermo Moreno (only honest politician I can think of) continues to be the candidate for Miuca I will join in and help as much as I can so maybe, just maybe one day he can get enough pull to effect some change. That will be my little contribution...
I knew corruption wasn't going to be dealt with, because they are extremely corrupt themselves. I knew nobody from The PRD / PPH was going to jail because they may be back in power one day and you don't want payback.
We do need a lot of more Nurias, but as you've already seen you can denounce all you want, but if nobody enforces it then what? Nuria has denounced many cases of corruption and None have been pursued to the end...Maybe a little bit of fuss is made for a few weeks and then it fades away.
I propose the following:
Someone / people who live there could for instance get hidden cameras and record cases of corruption (which should not be hard to find) and then post them on the web (Youtube or something of that sort). Nowdays this is the best medium to get the word out on things that are going on...Maybe enough heat will be generated that they will think twice about the petty corruption stuff.
On a personal note if Guillermo Moreno (only honest politician I can think of) continues to be the candidate for Miuca I will join in and help as much as I can so maybe, just maybe one day he can get enough pull to effect some change. That will be my little contribution...
I can't believe how few people get that.
Just saving the country from the impending bankruptcy brought on by the hippo, is good enough for me.
I was one of those who expected a lot more from this administration in 2004 2008 - because I was bringing my British mentality to the possibility of a New Beginning.
I was one of those who hoped for a great deal more being spent on Education.
I was one of those expecting to see a much more austere administration, a greater interest in getting rid of the corruption 'In High Places'.
I was one of those ...............................
I am STILL one of those who bitches to Dominicans that their Government is not doing enough to put things right, that THEY themselves have to demand that Politicians be honest & upstanding citizens who represent the people rather than ones who steal from the people ....... I get laughed at (in a friendly way & extreme good humour) because I just do not understand!!
It is all very fine for us extranajeros to jump on our horses in shining armour & go storming off about how things 'Should be done' & 'How we do it in OUR country of origin' but here it takes a L O T longer & has to be 'FELT' by the local populace.
Back off all you do-gooders from out of the country (Dominican OR regular visitors) - many of us here are pushing the boat as hard as we can right now & to do more would be dangerous.
'Take Videos & put them on U-tube'???? That would be downright dangerous. It would take any reasonable investigator about two days to find out who is putting those videos up & then 'The Rough Guys' would come visiting!! Anyone remember our friend on this board who got murdered nearly 2 years ago? Lloyd Robins was his name & he was murdered by person or persons unknown (well, not brought to any form of justice that is) because he was trying to help the community he was living in - THAT upset someone & he was removed from the scene VERY unceremoniously!!
One last point. This is the Dominican Republic. 99% of the people who live here are DOMINICANS & it is THEIR land. They make the decisions about their future ..... NOT us. All we can (& should) do is encourage them to look at things from a different viewpoint & allow THEM to choose which direction they wish to go in. Anything else is doing the Imperialistic thing which we 'Modernised' countries have been doing for so long - foisting OUR desires, needs, thoughts & values into a country that MAY NOT WANT TO LISTEN~!!! Now that is their choice & if THEIR form of democracy is to be upheld here, we must accept their choice.
Sorry for the rant ~ Grahame.
Good point, one has to be very careful and smart.
With all due respect, I disagree on two counts,
Count 1: I have discussed the issure of "change" with many, many Dominicans and by far the only ones that weren't interested in change were on the dole or affluent - hey if it's not broken....
Count 2: this is my country, my language and my people too.
There you have it. That's exactly the response I thought I would get (It is too dangerous...)
BB: Not saying you're wimping out or anything like that as I completely understand your point (Even though in reality there are ways to put these videos up without being traced, but most people don't know enough to be able to do so). I posted that piece of "advice" to make a point as to why things don't / won't change.
Let me tell you another thing...the most honest person can be easily bought out. I speak from experience as I have friends who spoke the same way I speak now...Well let me tell you a couple of them are now enjoying the spoils of being in power and if you talk to them it's like they are different people...The PLD can do no wrong.
Have another friend and ex-class mate who was a rabid Bosch follower and who thought government was to serve the people, not steal, etc...This same guy was "left out" when Leonel won the first time. Then when Hippo won he was offered a job within the inner circle as economic adviser (He was instrumental in the Sovereign Bonds deal). He switched loyalty (became very well off as a result) and if you see him today you wouldn't recognize him as he STILL defends the policies of the Hippo years.
BB: Not saying you're wimping out or anything like that as I completely understand your point (Even though in reality there are ways to put these videos up without being traced, but most people don't know enough to be able to do so). I posted that piece of "advice" to make a point as to why things don't / won't change.
Let me tell you another thing...the most honest person can be easily bought out. I speak from experience as I have friends who spoke the same way I speak now...Well let me tell you a couple of them are now enjoying the spoils of being in power and if you talk to them it's like they are different people...The PLD can do no wrong.
Have another friend and ex-class mate who was a rabid Bosch follower and who thought government was to serve the people, not steal, etc...This same guy was "left out" when Leonel won the first time. Then when Hippo won he was offered a job within the inner circle as economic adviser (He was instrumental in the Sovereign Bonds deal). He switched loyalty (became very well off as a result) and if you see him today you wouldn't recognize him as he STILL defends the policies of the Hippo years.
No doubt this is true, but with a push from the majority here towards financial responsibility and a charismatic leader who will make examples of gross abuses, at some point it will filter down to the little minnows that work for the gov't that their fun has ended.
BTW, I'm not talking about capital punishement, how about repatriation of all funds that cannot be accounted for and public ridicule?
One of the first thing a leader would need to do is develop a professional police cadre in order to enforce the "newfound" laws, and that will take a commitment in increasing salaries by double at a minimum and change in the "old guard".