Relationships for men 101...

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Berzin

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A few thoughts on North American males seeking relationships in the DR-I will focus on gentlemen looking for long-term monogamous relationships with the possible intent of marriage.


The Long-Distance Relationship

A long-distance relationship with a Dominican woman will be difficult if not impossible if you cannot commit the time and financial resources to make frequent trips to the DR. The frequency will depend on what your lifestyle will allow and in the end only you can make the decision whether this commitment will be worth your while or not. The more you can travel and spend time in the DR the better it will be for you. The more ingrained you become in native Dominican social circles the more doors will be opened to you regarding the type of Dominican woman you are looking to meet.

Language

The next obstacle is language. Fluency in Spanish will greatly increase not only your circle of native Dominican friends but also the type of young lady you will be able to meet. It will also aid immensely your ability to travel independently and your skill in navigating the myriad of circumstances you will inevitably encounter, from ordering food in a restaurant to being pulled over by the police.

Reputation

It goes without saying the reputation tourists have garnered on the island because of the sex industry is not a flattering one, so you also have this working against you. But you can avoid this by not habitually frequenting areas that have a reputation for this type of activity. A little discretion is also advised when speaking of such places in mixed company. It would not be wise to state openly that you just had a wild weekend in Boca Chica among conservative Dominicans. Even the most humble campesino will immediately draw negative conclusions about you that will be impossible to shake.

Who You Know Is Who You Are

If you do not know anyone on the island, a site like DR1 is invaluable in networking with social contacts. From there things will develop depending on how you carry yourself. Don’t expect people of a certain class to welcome you immediately with open arms as they would in some poor barrio. You need to gain their trust first and must be introduced. Only your comportment and demeanor will dictate how this will work for you. If you behave like a classless fool, then amongst those types you will stay.

And whom you befriend is important. Like it or not the DR is very conscious of such things that some tourists squawk about, but remember you are not home anymore. Walk around with some drug-dealing tigre or a prostitute and you WILL be labeled.

Reputation takes a long time to build up and only a moment to ruin-remember this in the DR.

Provincial Thinking, Societal Norms and the Western Male

This is by far the most misunderstood topic amongst DR1 members and has been the cause of many raucous arguments between it’s’ members.
The Dominican Republic is a machista society, one where westernized Latinos fluent in Spanish find difficult to comprehend. Some westerners take the stance that equality amongst the genders and races is something that was invented by their home countries and therefore should be exported to other societies at any and every opportunity.

What is clear is that some on the DR1 forum have a tendency to misinterpret what should be and what IS reality in the DR. Relationships between Dominican men and women seem strange and unfair to us, but it is their society and that’s’ how it works, like it or not. Men have the upper hand in all walks of life in the DR. Women have achieved many great things in the DR, but what is most important is how you assimilate your values while visiting and dating in the DR while easing up on the “everyone is equal” concept that you were raised with.

Let those who date and have relationships with Dominicans tell you that you cannot take your western sensibilities and transfer them to the DR. Many men feel that showering Dominican girlfriends with gifts and doing everything for them and their family is a foolproof way to win their hearts, but that may work against you, as these women are not accustomed to dating this type of man.

A Dominican woman relies on the man to make the decisions-this may seem like weakness on their part but that is how it is. You may feel you are liberating her from this type of machismo, but in reality it may come across as weakness and reinforces the stereotype that western men are pushovers and let their women dominate them. They will resent you for showing weakness and not keeping a firm hand in the relationship because that is how they were raised. This may seem provincial to us, but it is the reality.

This does not mean that you have to be abusive and outwardly promiscuous. There is a middle ground that you have to come to grips with that may be alien to you. Learn it and you will have a much easier time.

Presentation

Things like earrings, tattoos and sloppy attire may seem like an expression of individuality, but in the DR these things are watched closely and frowned upon. You will be judged negatively by the very people you may want to have contact with. See how far going against the grain will get you if you are looking to date a woman from a conservative, middle-class family.
It is a sight even to the most humble Dominican, who take great pride in their appearance even if they live in a shack, to run into a tourist who is dressed inappropriately, like wearing shorts far away from any beach. Neatness and cleanliness in appearance at all times is a prerequisite.

Dating DR Style

A proper Dominican woman is very much the property of her family, so expect chaperones on dates and no weekends alone in a resort-not right away at least. This is not always the case, but just something to keep in mind, because what may seem as a natural expression of liberty to us, the woman may be looked upon as a puta out for a weekend of whoring at a resort with a gringo by her family and neighbors. She will want to avoid this at all costs.

Money and the Gringo-As-Meal-Ticket

The discussion of money cannot be ignored. Again, this has been a subject of much derision and misunderstanding. Only you can make the decision you feel is right. But I would be hard pressed to find a man living and working in the DR who will tell you that you are not setting yourself up if you decide to be a “Western Union Boyfriend”. If you use money as the tie that binds her to you, then you are better off reading a book called “What’s’ love got to do with it-transnational desires and sex tourism in the Dominican Republic” by Denise Brennan. This book will give you more insight into this type of relationship than what is written here.

Economic/Social/Educational Disparity

If you are an educated, well-traveled man the chances that you have anything in common with an under-educated Dominican chica living in grinding third-world poverty are absolutely zero. If this is the type of Dominican woman you choose as a mate there is nothing in this post that can help you.

*I was asked to put something together as an addition to the thread entitled "Relationships For Women 101". This is meant to be used as a guideline, but by no means is it an end-all-be-all. It does not apply to whoremongers or those dating poor Dominican women who view a foreign boyfriend solely as a means to escape poverty.
 

DominicanBilly

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Retired in 1992, married an older Dominican women and bought a home in Puerto Plata.
So I can't resist adding my 2 cents to this post.

An educated chica that has a job in the bank or goes to school, and lives at home with their middle class or well off family is generally off limits for a tourist on vacation or the semi retired older man living here. Sure maybe my 28 year old son with his Spanish when he was living here might be accepted into such a family as her date/boyfriend.
But for sure the 40/50/60 year old "gringo" tourist that isn't needed to provide support for the middle or upper class family won't be a welcome guest or dinner date for their 25 year old daughter. (Remember the movie "Guess who's coming for dinner".)

If there is more than a 10 to 15 year age difference than you are just fooling your self that the relationship is based on anything more than money.

You may find a poor and educated beautiful chica working in a department store and is over 30 that are looking for an older/mature man to take care of her and her children. But they aren't found easily and you have to speak some Spanish.

Take note of these truths:

Even the most Dominicanized gringo is going to be looked upon as an outsider here, who potentially has money. There is no way to get around this. Their world view is often very narrow - much of their understanding of us comes from TV and other very stereotyped viewpoints.

Dominican families (and Dominicans in general) tend to be very good about sharing resources - if someone gets sick or needs some financial help, they will often scrape up money from very extended parts of the family to try and pay the bill. Thus, a Dominican girlfriend EXPECTS that you will have some extra money to share with the family.

A Dominican girl will treat you like you are her boyfriend, hoping that you will send money to her after you leave in order to help support her family.

We love them because they are very passionate and child like, when we leave for 4 months we expect them to sit and wait for our return. Get real, they aren't and neither are we faithful to them. And as an outsider don't expect anyone to tell you that the money you've just given her went to pay the doctor for her Dominican boyfriend’s broken leg. She had told you she needed the money for her son who is sick. I know because it happened to me (and I live here). They do behave like 8/9 year old children in that they want everything now and will tell you very transparent lies in an attempt to get what they want.

We are and will always be an outsider; all we can hope to be is an accepted outsider.
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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Elder Statesman grades Berzin's Post: A+

Everything that Berzin put into his post has been mentioned here once or twice by one of the long-time residents of the DR. This is the first time, I think, that it has been presented in such a precise and educated manner. (Not that it was grammatically perfect, but this is the internet and who cares (except regarding "the Dominican") )

Anyway, I would like to thank Berzin for going to the trouble of posting this well thought out message and would make it a "password" so to speak before going into the either the Sankie or Men are from Mars forums. Sort of before entering you must read the following: .... Click here when finished reading. -> Enter Forum...

It was that good.

Thanks Berzin.


HB
 

Robert

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Berzin, nice post. Lots of truths.

DominicanBilly, much of your post is written from your own personal experiences and that's fine. But don't assume all of us "gringos" that live and work here are faced with the same issues or perceptions :)

e.g.
"If there is more than a 10 to 15 year age difference than you are just fooling your self that the relationship is based on anything more than money".

I dated a girl in Puerto Plata (ex Miss Puerto Plata) your home town that is 10+ years younger than me and religiously puts RD$100-150,000+ savings in the bank every month from her business. In any one month, she has around RD$1 million in product on the street. She often travels to the US, Panama buying merchandise, own car, property etc. The last reason she was with me was for money :)

I dated her for a while, know the family well, still great friends, never asked me for a peso etc etc. AZB knows her, so does a mutual buddy of ours, Bruce.
 

suarezn

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Here's an interesting article in Yahoo today.

Here's the link: Dating Secret Exposed: Why Nice Guys Finish Last -- Yahoo! Personals


...and here's the actual content (Source: Yahoo) in case the link is moved.

Anyhow I thought it was interesting because while this is applicable anywhere in the world is even more when it comes to a foreigner / Dominican relationship. Lots of guys seem to become the nice guys mentioned in this article when in The DR while the DR guys remain the cocky guy (we've been taught since we're little, by our dads, uncles, etc)...

Maybe you're just acting the same way you would back home, but the expectations in The DR are a bit different.



Are you a nice guy who has always wondered why the cocky guy -- the one who barely appears interested in the girl -- is usually the one who gets the girl?

Have you suffered from hearing the words, "You're a really nice guy, but I only like you as a friend," from a woman who you would do (or may, in fact, have already done) just about anything and everything for -- only to turn around and watch her date (or even chase) a guy who treats her like she's nothing special? And are you stumped wondering why she would date a guy who treats her like that when she could have you who would treat her like a princess and give her everything she wants? Well, you better brace yourself because I'm going to tell you a couple of secrets that you might not want to hear.

First, "nice" equates with boring and predictable. Look up "nice" in the dictionary and you find: pleasant; agreeable; satisfactory. In other words, average -- not exceptional, not exciting, and not sexy.I'll bet you've never heard a woman say she didn't want to date a guy because he was too confident, too passionate, or too exciting -- have you? But, I'll bet you have heard women say things like, "He's such a nice guy. He's so sweet and he's always there for me, but I only like him as a friend." Or, "He's such a good guy -- kind, thoughtful, generous, honest, loyal -- but there's no chemistry. He just doesn't turn me on." Sadly, I hear it all the time. The fact is, Mr. Nice Guy, you cannot bore a woman into feeling attracted to you or into wanting to date you. And as obvious as that sounds, if you are one of those guys I described that is exactly what you are trying to do. And it won't work.

Please understand that I am not suggesting that you mistreat women or disrespect them in any way.

What I suggesting is that you value and respect yourself more.
To illustrate what I mean: The answer to the question, "Why does the guy who doesn't appear to care as much about the girl get the girl?" is simple: The nice guy cares too much, too soon. He has made the woman too important and too valuable and it shows in everything he says and does. He is too available, too eager to please, too accommodating, and he gives too much -- all without getting anything in return. By doing so, he has made himself appear desperate, insecure, needy of this woman's attention, affection, and approval -- and he has stripped himself of any value in her eyes. After all, if he's already doing and giving everything, without her doing or giving anything - why would she value him? She won't. She is not going to value him any more than he values himself. What she is going to do is look for someone else, someone who she perceives as being more worthy, more confident, and more valuable.

It works like this:

Once you need something, or you want it too badly, you forfeit your strength and lose all power of negotiation. You are in a position of weakness and you are perceived as weak. Someone (or something) else is in control of you, the situation, and it's outcome. Men in this situation appear to be anything but confident, strong, and exciting. More, they are perceived as being unworthy and as lacking value.

Translation: Things that are easily acquired, obtained, or maintained, without any effort or sacrifice, lack value... it's human nature.

The secret to why the cocky guy wins with women, over the nice guy, is that he is perceived as being a stronger, more confident guy with more value. How? He never invests everything -- his entire being, ego, and self-worth in what one woman's response or reaction to him is. He doesn't gush with compliments; he isn't always available; he doesn't give too much; and he knows he isn't going to die if a woman says "no" to him. More, his attitude is, yeah, I'd like to go out with you, but if I can't, that's OK -- I'm a busy guy, with exciting things going on, and lots of other options.
 

DominicanBilly

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Berzin, nice post. Lots of truths.

DominicanBilly, much of your post is written from your own personal experiences and that's fine. But don't assume all of us "gringos" that live and work here are faced with the same issues or perceptions :)

e.g.
"If there is more than a 10 to 15 year age difference than you are just fooling your self that the relationship is based on anything more than money".

I dated a girl in Puerto Plata (ex Miss Puerto Plata) your home town that is 10+ years younger than me and religiously puts RD$100-150,000+ savings in the bank every month from her business. In any one month, she has around RD$1 million in product on the street. She often travels to the US, Panama buying merchandise, own car, property etc. The last reason she was with me was for money :)

I dated her for a while, know the family well, still great friends, never asked me for a peso etc etc. AZB knows her, so does a mutual buddy of ours, Bruce.

So based on you personal experience you would say this is the rule not the exception when an older man marries a younger woman.
 

Robert

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So based on you personal experience you would say this is the rule not the exception when an older man marries a younger woman.

I never said it was the rule or the exception. I said that just because that has been your observation or personal experience, doesn't mean it applies to every gringo that lives here.

Yes I agree, it applies to "most" older gringos here and that's pretty sad, especially when places like Santo Domingo, Santiago are full of well educated, attractive, financially independent single woman of all age ranges.
 

shortraymond

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Thank god for this website. It never dawned on me that I was doing some of the same things you guys discussed now in my new relationship. I'm 42 and my new dominican girlfriend is 25. And it's true, I have been treating her based on old school dating traditions I would use here with and American woman. I call every day, shower her with gifts when I visit her, and send her money every month cause I pitty her living conditions. But if she is going to take all of this as weakness.... well, you know the rest.

Thanks.
 

Arrica

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Basically I think it is a matter of showing mutual respect rather than using money as the opening sentence. You respect your gf. pay for the dinner, discoteque etc. that any macho would do when taking his girl out - pay for the groceries, let her cook and clean (la tradition), don't get overexited when she asks you for money for this and that and evenerything, learn to say no, and basically think about how you would yourself live (relatively speaking) back home, and extrapolate to the living conditions and expenses of the DR - that are substantially lower than Canada, US, UK etc.
 

mike l

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I really enjoyed this entire thread with well written and accurate statements from all parties.

My story is playing out pretty well. My girlfriend is graduating and about to become a psycologist and the government is paying her a generous salary to train her. I'm twice her age.

She's Colombian not Dominican although there are similarties amongst all latino women.

I can't wait to see how this plays out. And yes you have to say NO and it works, because she just keeps coming back. Just don't hit her!

That was the last guys mistake.........he keeps calling her cellphone and I keep thanking him for the wardrobe he bought her......timing is everything.

Happy hunting !

PC
 
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