Dominican History and heritage

AmericanSentiment

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Is it true Dominicans burned & destroyed their history books and tried to rewrite where they came from? I read history that after Colombus arrived searching for gold Spain killed off all the Indians in the 16th century & begin bringing slave from Africa to DR Now a majority African-Dominican in the country.
Also I read in a history book most Dominicans judge themselves by skin color, a lighter shade they like to call themselves Indian.

I just want to know if any of this is true by Dominicans abroad & Dominicans on the island.

Also are Christopher Colombus bones still on the island?
Are Dominicans living abroad & at home ashame of their heritage as Afro-Dominicans?
 
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Is it true Dominicans burned & destroyed their history books and tried to rewrite where they came from? I read history that after Colombus arrived searching for gold Spain killed off all the Indians in the 16th century & begin bringing slave from Africa to DR Now a majority African-Dominican in the country.
Also I read in a history book most Dominicans judge themselves by skin color, a lighter shade they like to call themselves Indian.

I just want to know if any of this is true by Dominicans abroad & Dominicans on the island.

Also are Christopher Colombus bones still on the island?
Are Dominicans living abroad & at home ashame of their heritage as Afro-Dominicans?
Had a conversation with one of my employees the other day. He's black with African features and he didn't believe me when I told him that he's from African decent. It took me awhile and with the help of someone I was finally able to convince him. Even my wife who's Dominican had a hard time believing me in the beginning when I told her that her ancestors were African.
They think of Africans being like the Haitians.
 

Mujermaravilla

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1. I've never heard or read that the people of Dominican Republic burned books to rewrite history.

2. Europeans had to import slaves because Natives were dying left and right after only 50 years the native population was said to be eliminated. So yes most dominicans are a mix of white and black.

3. Yes, in DR there are about a dozen ways to describe "race" and a million shades of indio. I believe race identity is not as important as in the US.

4.When it comes to recognizing how much african is in our blood I think only ignorant and undecated people would deny being at leat in part of African decent. honestly the things I read make me wonder if I grew up in a different DR.
 

Hillbilly

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By the mid to late 1600s there were so few people here that Spain had to import folks from the Canary Islands in order to maintain their possession of the eastern side of the island.

There was never a really sizable black population at any time until the Haitian Occupation (1822-1844) although before that there were several years of attempted takeovers by L'Ouverture with the accompanying black troops.

Of course there was intercourse between the whites, mulattoes, mestizos and blacks, its only normal.

Most Dominicans will admit to Haitian influence, but very few will find anything attractive about being African. That is just a fact of life here.

In fact recent studies seem to indicate that there is a good deal of Taino Indian blood still coursing through Dominican veins...the study is ongoing--currently stalled--

As for the bones--officially, yes they are there...

As for their self-descriptions, look up Nancy Gonzalez' work on the DR. She found hundreds of descriptive adjectives used to characterize people. Some of them still in use, others no longer used...

People think about themselves as they wish, I do not try and make them think like the "should" , why?

Even in the US black community there are important class distinctions based on color, as any black knows BTW.... If you think not, go visit Spelman in Atlanta....

HB
 
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bob saunders

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PICHARDO

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Is it true Dominicans burned & destroyed their history books and tried to rewrite where they came from?

During Trujillo's dictatorship, many history books were destroyed by dumping them in the landfills by the truck load. Those were the history books used in Public school's classrooms in the DR at the time. Trujillo ordered then secretary of Education "Balaguer" the need to correct many "errors" as he affirmed them to exist in those books.

Dominicans didn't burn history books, but the trujillista machinery did...

As a matter of fact most books were replaced with a newer edition prepare under the close scrutiny of the Dictator... Many books had his portrait pasted in the last or front initial page...

Trujillo didn't want Dominican heritage to be identified with that of the Haitian blood, therefore of African ancestry in its majority.


I read history that after Colombus arrived searching for gold Spain killed off all the Indians in the 16th century & begin bringing slave from Africa to DR Now a majority African-Dominican in the country.

When Colon arrived in Hispaniola the Taino population was about 2 to 3 million. Once the Aborigines were exposed to the pathogens brought over from Europe by the conquistadores, the immune system of the Tainos wasn't prepared for the killers. The local population, which was a very docile and of small frame, didn't provide the work the Europeans had experienced with Africans. The French and Spaniards introduced African slave to the island for this issue. The population of Tainos, greatly reduced by the pathogens and killing sprees of the conquistador es was moved to smaller chores;those that survived.

The Tainos serving chores closer to the homes of the colonists, did become more and more integrated with them via sexual relations and the such.

The slaves that were brought over to the eastern side of the island, left when the uprising from the slaves on the western side became successful and made their way to the easter side. Some remained in the eastern side but most left to the darker held side of the island for good.

Dominicans are more a result of the mix of Tainos and Whites than Whites with Africans. The characteristics of the African traits are easy to spot as well as the easy to spot Taino traits in Dominicans as well. In Haiti most whites intermixed with Tainos than Africans, as Tainos were seen as less "wild" than Africans. That's the biggest reason why in Haiti today, color of the skin and facial characteristics play a defining role in social/racial interaction of classes.

Dominicans are intensively mixed with races from all over the world, yet it's Taino and white the biggest and stronger of all when samplings are taken to trace racial heritage among them. It wasn't until after 1965 when large masses of Haitians made their way into border towns (then scantly populated by Dominicans, many of long Spaniard lineage) of the DR, where they did the logical thing and intermarriages with Dominicans became quite frequent...

Any person alive after 1940 can tell from an eyewitness account that towns and major cities like Santiago and satellite charming little "Campitos" where predominantly of white and very Indian like shades as the darkest of complexions. The campesinos from the farms where hard labor was the daily bread, many did become mixed with Haitians, which were the #1 laborers of the Fields there...

Still many campitos in the hard to reach places are seldom darker than Nicole Kidman. (Juancalito, Loma prieta, los Ranchos, etc...). Mainly b/c they were never open to Haitian migration for the fields.


Also I read in a history book most Dominicans judge themselves by skin color, a lighter shade they like to call themselves Indian.

Thats b/c most of the lightest shaded skin toned Dominicans of mixed heritage are indeed of Whites with Taino/Mestizo ancestry and NOT White/African.
The Mestizo population was much higher in post pure Taino concentration in the eastern side of the island.

I just want to know if any of this is true by Dominicans abroad & Dominicans on the island.

From a Dominican abroad and in the island as well...

Also are Christopher Colombus bones still on the island?

Colon's bone are positively in the DR, as the inscriptions on the box his bones were later discovered provided. Somebody made sure to send other bones to Spain....


Are Dominicans living abroad & at home ashame of their heritage as Afro-Dominicans?

I guess some are (to what extend of the ones ignorant to having at least some traits of African heritage in their blood, I don't know), but saying that Dominicans of any other shade than Nicole Kidman's pure white, is simply just as ignorant of the huge and much greater % of Dominicans of actual Taino/White/Mestizo heritage as well.

Just going around pointing toward non-whites of Dominican nationality and calling their posture on the African heritage "ignorant", serves the voice behind such affirmations as no lesser ignorant on the prevalence of Taino blood in Dominicans as well with little to NONE African ancestry/blood in their family's entire line...
 
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bachatony1

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All Dominicans except one- Many are dark but not too many look like African blacks.
What does that mean? All African blacks look alike too? It's a whole continent, you know.

Anyway, I taught english to a 15 yr old dominican girl in the states and she told my wife and I (both black) that her father told her she could date whoever she wanted as long as he wasn't black. When we explained to her that she had some african heritage, her automatic response was, "eeewww, their dirty"

I guess the problem with the african perception is in the U.S. in the black community also as one poster mentioned. I am of a darker complexion. When I lived in the south, my complexion was never an issue, but when I moved further north, I was dark-skinned and catch every joke about being "african" as if it's an insult or something.
 

Robert

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Interesting and informative thread.

Let me remind everyone, if this moves towards race and insults it will be closed.
 

Bayx-**

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A lot of Dominicans do have a problem with their heritage. They don’t want to admit that there are some African roots in their heritage. The majority think of themselves as mulato Indian & and white mix. If they are just Indian & white mix….how comes there is so many African look alike?

Pichardo this question is for you?

Isn't it true that Trujillo gave the Jewish some land in Puerto Plata because he wanted the race to mix with white….he hated his skin color and also hated that his grandmother was black?

I saw a documentary years ago on the Christopher colon issue. At that time there was no evidence that his bones were kept in DR as Spain claims they have the bones also. If both countries claim they have his bones how are they going to prove it. There is no scientific evidence to prove that either country have his bones.
 

Chip

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A lot of Dominicans do have a problem with their heritage. They don?t want to admit that there are some African roots in their heritage. The majority think of themselves as mulato Indian & and white mix. If they are just Indian & white mix?.how comes there is so many African look alike?

The fact is Pichardo is wrong in his baseless assumption. While there is a very considerable Taino component per recent DNA results amoung the general Dominican population, the African component only naturally should be stronger. It is ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

Also, Hillbilly's thread just about says it all.
 

Hillbilly

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Our friend PICHARDO also errs in the population estimates. I do believe current estimates place the Taino population closer to the 300-400,000 mark....

However, one of my points was that the incredible mix of Indian (Taino?Carib?Siboney?)
with Spanish (Spanish + Arab in a good possibility), and Blacks, then adding More Spanish to the mixture, the Haitians (mulattoes and blacks)...must have created a truly amazing DNA....and beautiful people, too.

As for the bones issue, I love to tell my students about the fact that "dispensations" were granted in medieval times to families that wanted to bury a person in more than one place. I have no doubt that this happened with the Admiral, and is reinforced by the fact that there are no bones above the hip in the box in Santo Domingo. I kid them about how we got the butt (culo) and Seville got the head. Some day some researcher will find that paper in a dark and musty file...

One of the issues is that the Columbus presence in that box is Dominican Dogma, and not scientific fact. This could have been established way back in the early 1990s when I was in communication with a professor from the University of California Los Angeles (I think!!) who was a leading expert on DNA analysis of bones...he was going to come here to look at the bones and compare them with the ones in Seville.

However, I was told in no uncertain terms that those were Colombus' bones and not bother with anything else. So no science.

HB
 
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I've enjoyed reading this thread, and I wouldn't dream of posting any opinion, since those posting obviously have much more knowledge about this subject than I do. I just wanted to express my appreciation for the interesting information.
 

bienamor

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Our friend PICHARDO also errs in the population estimates. I do believe current estimates place the Taino population closer to the 300-400,000 mark....

However, one of my points was that the incredible mix of Indian (Taino?Carib?Siboney?)
with Spanish (Spanish + Arab in a good possibility), and Blacks, then adding More Spanish to the mixture, the Haitians (mulattoes and blacks)...must have created a truly amazing DNA....and beautiful people, too.

As for the bones issue, I love to tell my students about the fact that "dispensations" were granted in medieval times to families that wanted to bury a person in more than one place. I have no doubt that this happened with the Admiral, and is reinforced by the fact that there are no bones above the hip in the box in Santo Domingo. I kid them about how we got the butt (culo) and Seville got the head. Some day some researcher will find that paper in a dark and musty file...

One of the issues is that the Columbus presence in that box is Dominican Dogma, and not scientific fact. This could have been established way back in the early 1990s when I was in communication with a professor from the University of California Los Angeles (I think!!) who was a leading expert on DNA analysis of bones...he was going to come here to look at the bones and compare them with the ones in Seville.

However, I was told in no uncertain terms that those were Colombus' bones and not bother with anything else. So no science.

HB

Was there not also a Claim once by Cuba that they had the bones? so that would give us a 3 way split on columbus. Just remember hearing this somewhere.
 

AmericanSentiment

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I would love to read other sources in Dominican text books that are taught in school there that can say other than what I am hearing and from what I posted.

Here are a few sources that I will post.

Also later I will post some of the text quoted in the books.


"The Dominican Republic: A national history"
By Frank Moya Pons

"Why the cocks fight: Dominicans, Hatians & the struggle for Hispaniola"
By Michele Wucker

Colonial Sato Domingo, a guide publish in the Dominican Republic

Also Hamlet Hermann,
A writer, political analyst & former government minister in Sato Domingo.



Sources for the Tainos (As I have read in history before, there are no more Taino survivors they were all killed in the 16th century)

For a Native history of Hispaniola read

"The Tainos: Rise & Fall of the people who greeted Columbus"
By Irving Rouse

Columbus Outpost among the Tianos: Spain & America at La Isabela 1493-1498
By Kathleen Degan & Jose Maria Cruxent
 

suarezn

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...and the people who seem to worry so much about race are the people who come from other countries where racism is a way of life.

Dominicans don't worry so much about this...yes we may say "I'm not black, I'm indio claro...", but it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Most of our families are mixed (i.e. in my family alone we run the gamut from very white, Scandinavian look alike to very dark, just came from Congo types)...and we all like each other, get along and race is never an issue.
 
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Chip

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Sources for the Tainos (As I have read in history before, there are no more Taino survivors they were all killed in the 16th century)

This is incorrect, and more than likely the persevered as a separate community until the 19th century until loosing their language. However, many Tainos words and customs remain today and are an integral part of Dominican culture. See the following thread:

http://www.dr1.com/forums/dr-debates/61282-tainos-dr.html
 

A.Hidalgo

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I would love to read other sources in Dominican text books that are taught in school there that can say other than what I am hearing and from what I posted.

Here are a few sources that I will post.

Also later I will post some of the text quoted in the books.


"The Dominican Republic: A national history"
By Frank Moya Pons


"Why the cocks fight: Dominicans, Hatians & the struggle for Hispaniola"
By Michele Wucker

Colonial Sato Domingo, a guide publish in the Dominican Republic

Also Hamlet Hermann,
A writer, political analyst & former government minister in Sato Domingo.



Sources for the Tainos (As I have read in history before, there are no more Taino survivors they were all killed in the 16th century)

For a Native history of Hispaniola read

"The Tainos: Rise & Fall of the people who greeted Columbus"
By Irving Rouse

Columbus Outpost among the Tianos: Spain & America at La Isabela 1493-1498
By Kathleen Degan & Jose Maria Cruxent


Some have injected good answers to your questions, but looking at the list of books you have quoted above especially the one from Pons, did you think from this forum you were going to get better answers? Or maybe you wanted to stir the shyt up?
 
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AmericanSentiment

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No insult to anyone, but would love to know your sources

This is incorrect, and more than likely the persevered as a separate community until the 19th century until loosing their language. However, many Tainos words and customs remain today and are an integral part of Dominican culture. See the following thread:

http://www.dr1.com/forums/dr-debates/61282-tainos-dr.html

I would love to know the sources and historians for this information.

Also someone posted to close this thread, I don't see any reason to close.. My intention is not cause a fight but to learn more about the Dominican history. No insult to anyone if you are offended