Leonel's Trips Abroad a Waste of Time?

kingofdice

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Jan 16, 2002
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It's my opinion that President Leonel Fernandez is a sophisticated escape artist, who doesn't miss any opportunity to get himself out of the D.R, for gladhandling visits and worthless conferences, that offer very little real value to the country, while the general populace suffers in 18 hr. a day electricity blackouts and the malaise of poverty.

Does anyone differ in my opinion?

Leonel's 3nd term in office seems to be a complete mirror of his other two terms - to spend as much time as possible out of the country, getting merit medals pinned to his chest, while Dominican businesses are going bankrupt, spending their last peso on fuel for generators.

It's seems to me that Leonel has a problem of staying in the trenches to deal with the multitude of his country's problems.

Comments welcome. Thank you.
 
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Robert

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One thing that Leonel has always been good at is charming people for investment dollars.

I think you'll find he's brought in a considerable amount of investment into the DR compared to the days of the PRD.

We think the electricity is bad now, it's still better than the last year of the PRD.
The difference now...People knew the PRD had no chance of fixing the problem, and realized the party was full of chopo's and incompetent people, but the PLD is a little smarter and have a few more brains.

When you live here day in and day out, you see the changes, the good and bad.

Just look at the tax system, it's been revolutionized by the PRD, it's now a very modern system, 100% online and just works and generates huge revenues for the government... funny that :)
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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The politically ignorant populace ignore all of that. they eat, drink and vote with their stomachs.
As I read today's report on how the DR was going to lease rights to Arab investors, I wonder how many flips and turns the founders of the country, many of whom lost their lives for opposing any leasing of any Dominican territory, and now Leon-bin-el is doing it for the pay offs his henchmen get.

Sorry but I have yet to see all of this promised investment come to fruition that has benefited anyone except the "come solos"

And, yes, they are very good at collecting taxes and very bad at spendingthe money!!

HB
 

jrhartley

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Sep 10, 2008
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errrr isnt that the job of politicians to go to other countries and meet people- he wouldnt get very far with negptiations if he stayed at home all day-
 

brisas

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Oct 17, 2007
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It is my opinion...

It is my opinion that commentators in this topic are frustrated opposition militants. With one excepcion.


The nature of their comments betray their militancy. They are part of the problem, not of its solution.

There are many things that can be criticized, that should be criticized about the present government. The last one should be the trips abroad. A president locked in his own territory has no hope of coping with the complexities of current problems in any nation.
 

Ezequiel

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Jun 4, 2008
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It's my opinion that President Leonel Fernandez is a sophisticated escape artist, who doesn't miss any opportunity to get himself out of the D.R, for gladhandling visits and worthless conferences, that offer very little real value to the country, while the general populace suffers in 18 hr. a day electricity blackouts and the malaise of poverty.

Does anyone differ in my opinion?

Leonel's 3nd term in office seems to be a complete mirror of his other two terms - to spend as much time as possible out of the country, getting merit medals pinned to his chest, while Dominican businesses are going bankrupt, spending their last peso on fuel for generators.

It's seems to me that Leonel has a problem of staying in the trenches to deal with the multitude of his country's problems.

Comments welcome. Thank you.

I do, when Balaguer was in power nobody knew about the Dominican Republic, everytime somebody asked me outside the NY Tri-State area, from where i was from and i said DR, nobody knew, people asked me where is that country located. That's because Balaguer never travel abroad.

Now everybody know about the DR, were almost everybody.
 

Ezequiel

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Jun 4, 2008
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The politically ignorant populace ignore all of that. they eat, drink and vote with their stomachs.
As I read today's report on how the DR was going to lease rights to Arab investors, I wonder how many flips and turns the founders of the country, many of whom lost their lives for opposing any leasing of any Dominican territory, and now Leon-bin-el is doing it for the pay offs his henchmen get.

Sorry but I have yet to see all of this promised investment come to fruition that has benefited anyone except the "come solos"

And, yes, they are very good at collecting taxes and very bad at spendingthe money!!

HB

where did you read that?
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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Where? In the history books...Attempts to lease Saman? Bay were responsible for getting several presidents thrown out...

But that is not the point. The point is that while Leon-bin-el is gallivanting around the world spreading the word about the DR, he is not solving or allowing any one else to solve the nation's most important issues: electricity and the high cost of foodstuffs. (without huge payoffs, that is...)

And please, oh please, tell me about one of these promised billions that have come to fruition. Just one will do...

As for why people in the US know about the DR, I think you can thank Sammy, Manny, Big Pappy, Alberto and a few more for that, not necessarily Leon-bin-el...

HB
 

Ezequiel

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Jun 4, 2008
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Where? In the history books...Attempts to lease Saman? Bay were responsible for getting several presidents thrown out...

But that is not the point. The point is that while Leon-bin-el is gallivanting around the world spreading the word about the DR, he is not solving or allowing any one else to solve the nation's most important issues: electricity and the high cost of foodstuffs. (without huge payoffs, that is...)

And please, oh please, tell me about one of these promised billions that have come to fruition. Just one will do...

As for why people in the US know about the DR, I think you can thank Sammy, Manny, Big Pappy, Alberto and a few more for that, not necessarily Leon-bin-el...

HB

When i was in school, it was the Peninsula of Samana that the DR government of that time wanted to leased to the U.S. government, NOT the Arab investors that you mentioned on post#3.

by hillbilly

As I read today's report on how the DR was going to lease rights to Arab investors, I wonder how many flips and turns the founders of the country, many of whom lost their lives for opposing any leasing of any Dominican territory, and now Leon-bin-el is doing it for the pay offs his henchmen get.

I want to know where did you read that the Dominican government want to lease some Arab investors who know what?

And who is Leon-bin-el?

You were NOT talking about the Samana bay or the Samana peninsula on your post#3.

What was your point on post#3?
 
May 12, 2005
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Ah, the leasing of Samana Bay. Besides Hillbilly, how many people here know that in the late 1860's the Dominicans voted to allow becoming a US territory?? It was ultimately voted down by the US Senate, but not by much. Just think how different things would have been if that happened.
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
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In non-baseball playing parts of the world like Europe, the DR is better known because of its huge popularity as a tourist destination. Hardly anyone in the UK would know who Leonel is or noticed his visit there a couple of years ago.

Despite that hat.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Political Beliefs and Leonel's Travels: Benefits the DR?

One of the most basic aspect of politics that is taught in political science courses at the university level is the belief systems among political elites vs. the mass public, the latter one's being everyday people.

Now, I'll use known facts about the U.S. regarding this and from that most here can make an assumption (at least I hope most of you will be able to do that) of what its like in the DR considering the education level, socio-economic level, etc. of the typical person in such country. In the U.S., only 15% of the mass public have substantial constraint knowledge in their belief system, while half of the American populace have extremely simplistic political belief, if not complete political ignorance!

What does that mean?

1. Most people don't locate political issues in the center of their interest and attention space.

2. People have minimal grasp of the abstract political concepts that serve as constraint knowledge.

3. Interest and knowledge are greater on immediate, short-term issues than on longer-term ones.

4. Due to the sheer difficulty of trying to to understand complicated political acts/questions/issues, they have a considerable volatility in their short-term political opinions, influenced by the changes in political information.

5. Inconsistencies exists across political beliefs leading to an individual that hold contradictory positions.

6. And my most favorite: THE CONTENT OF BELIEFS IS OFTEN INACCURATE!

In short, the vast majority of people have an extremely simplistic belief system, they tend to focus their attention on a select short-term issue area, have little knowledge of other issue ares, and receive considerable guidance from information provided by the elite and the media, more often than not by the media which often functions on the same simplistic belief systems as that of the masses. But, most important of all, most people's political opinion are worthless because its mostly based on misinformation and assumptions.

On the contrary, the political elite's belief system is the exact opposite what makes up the belief system of the masses. For the most part, the political elite's belief system is characterized by extremely high levels of abstraction, ACCURACY, complexity, stability, and breadth.

Now, given that DR1 is a website/forum that is practically open for the participation of anyone, as long that they speak English and comport themselves; we can all agree that all types of people come and share information that ranges from the obscenely ridiculous to the very sophisticated. In the same matter, people of all backgrounds, socio-economic, political, educational, ages, etc. come and share information. Given the diversity of the audience, members of this website develop an unwritten hierarchy that evaluates the level of trust anyone would have on anything said by the different members of this website. Its safe to assume that two people saying the exact same thing, one being a newby and the other being a long timer, will get completely different reactions from various members, particularly in controversial issues.

With that and the definition of political beliefs in mind, I'll say the following regarding the topic and I'm sorry if this insults anyone here, but it has to be said.

Anyone that doesn't quite understand the purpose and the effect that foreign trips by the president and constant exposure of the Dominican Republic in international investment circles, such person either has a mass public type of belief system or has an elite belief system but is not being bi-partisan when presenting his/her opinion here, or is plain simply dumb to the fullest degree.

Leonel's trips abroad are NOT a waste of time or resources.

There is a VERY strong correlation between the increase in direct foreign investment in the country and his foreign trips, in fact direct foreign investment took off under his first presidency precisely due to his constant exposure of the country in global investment circles.

Tourism and Free Trade Zones, the two largest producers of jobs in the country; are overwhelmingly dependent on direct foreign investment which itself is dependent on a constant exposure of the DR in diverse foreign investment circles. Anyone who doesn't see the benefit of such trips concerning the impact they have on the local job market and economy is blind or, again, dumb as a rock.

Better yet, the current trip is to countries in the Middle East, hence Leonel is attempting to diversity the origins of investments in the DR in order to protect the country from being too dependent on ONE COUNTRY, (ie. the US) and in a time when the US is catching a cold; it makes perfect sense and its very responsible for a president to do just that!

This trip has now gotten an agreement from a Middle Eastern country that due to the this very same trip, will now formalize its relations with the DR, open an embassy and latter on develop a Chamber of Commerce with both countries, and, in effect, increase investments in the DR.

That means more jobs for people, an increase in potentially new tax revenue in the future, and assuring that the economy continue to grow at decent levels in the shaky and troublesome future.

All of that from ONE trip Leonel has made to ONE country.

Now, every time Leonel travels, he leaves with nothing and he comes back with either a new country wanting to do business with the DR or an old trading partner wanting to increase business with the DR.

Anyone that doesn't see the benefits this has for the Dominican economy in the long run, again is dumb as a rock.

All of this from traveling every now and then.

-NALs
 

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
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Frank the Tank: the deal got 16000 well taught votes (carefully orchestrated votes)
The deal was defeated due to Grant's high-handed treatment of Congress and Charles Sumner's racist opposition to annexing such a "colored" nation....
The deciding vote is his.

Gee, NALS, don't use one sentence when 100 will do...

I am truly "rock headed" since I have yet to see the benefit of any of these trips. Call me "Rocky" ....None of these people come here with the idea of helping the DR, but rather of helping themselves...I do not believe that there are Dominican businessmen capable of dealing with the Emirates on a one to one basis...We'll get screwed, no matter what. That is the philosophy of business: Get mine screw you....

We'll see down the line...


HB
 

kingofdice

Active member
Jan 16, 2002
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Eloquent dialogue Mr. Nahls, but the facts are indisputable, that President Fernandez has a long history of spending excessive time out of the country, and doesn't miss an opportunity to give a professorial dissertation.

When you have a country that is mired in poverty and is one of the one worst countries in the southern Hemisphere to provide a basic necessity such as electricity to it's people, then the President needs to take responsibility.

There's a basic premise that you are missing Mr. Nahls: The refrigerator doesn't work without electricity. A sewing machine doesn't work without electricity. And the country doesn't work without electricity.

Consequently, foreign investments won't work without electricity!

When the D.R. has an acceptable infrastructure, President Fernandez won't have to concern himself about running off to countries in search of foreign investments, -- they'll come to the D.R. on their own accord.

I'm utterly amazed at the lack of common sense exhibited by most Dominican political leaders.
 
Mar 2, 2008
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Anyone that doesn't quite understand the purpose and the effect that foreign trips by the president and constant exposure of the Dominican Republic in international investment circles, such person either has a mass public type of belief system or has an elite belief system but is not being bi-partisan when presenting his/her opinion here, or is plain simply dumb to the fullest degree.
NALS

In other words, anyone who doesn't agree with NALS has to be wrong. Does that about sum it up, NALS?

The problem is, despite NALS's long-winded explanation of why everyone else is wrong, his reasoning just doesn't make any sense, and is, in fact, simply a reflection of his own self-serving "belief system".

Leonel's trips abroad might mean something if he actually had something to offer. While he might be in a position to accept the gratuities that are necessary for greasing the way for future exploitative dealings, he is not in a position to create longterm, worthwhile and mutually beneficial business ventures.
 

bob saunders

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Jan 1, 2002
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Leonel's trips abroad might mean something if he actually had something to offer. While he might be in a position to accept the gratuities that are necessary for greasing the way for future exploitative dealings, he is not in a position to create longterm, worthwhile and mutually beneficial business ventures.

Explain what you mean by your statment. Why wouldn't The president and his cronies would be in the position to create longterm business deals...etc.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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catcherintherye said:
In other words, anyone who doesn't agree with NALS has to be wrong. Does that about sum it up, NALS?
I don't ever recall stating that anyone that doesn't agree with me is wrong, I'm very much aware that I too can be and have been wrong on many issues.

However, in simple terms, most people's perceptions of "things" are more often incorrect due to lack of access to accurate information and, consequently, the reason why public opinion has little value in the greater scheme of things.

That is the reason people seek the knowledge and information provided by experts in each respective field as oppose to simply getting opinions from random folks. Good examples of what I'm saying would be when a person is sick, they seek the advise of the elite in such field (ie. a medical doctor) as oppose to getting advise from average Joe. Students get their education from certified teachers rather than some random person. Entrepreneurs get advise from experts in the subject (ie. other entrepreneurs and professionals) rather than random people that have never managed a business.

So on and so forth.

catcherintherye said:
Leonel's trips abroad might mean something if he actually had something to offer. While he might be in a position to accept the gratuities that are necessary for greasing the way for future exploitative dealings, he is not in a position to create longterm, worthwhile and mutually beneficial business ventures.
How is an interest in investing in the Dominican electricity sector on the part of the United Arabs Emirates not a 'long term, worthwhile, and mutually beneficial business venture?'

Had Leonel never made the trip to the UAE, such interest from their part on helping solve the energy crisis would had never been aroused.

Prometen a Leonel invertir en electricidad

-NALs
 
Mar 2, 2008
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Explain what you mean by your statment. Why wouldn't The president and his cronies would be in the position to create longterm business deals...etc.

I mean that they (Leonel and cronies) have nothing to offer. There is no dependable infrastructure, no regular electricity, no honest crime prevention, no clean water supply, no educated workforce, etc., etc.

Therefore, anyone willing to "invest" in such a situation would be looking to extract huge returns, since it is such a risky investment. Such "investments" are generally and historically licenses to steal, and hardly the types of businesses the DR needs at the moment.

They are basically selling an expectation of massive profits at the expense of the country as a whole. Those who would enter into such an arrangement would expect to extract huge profits without adding much to the financial well-being of the DR.

These are not the types of arrangements a country would seek if it wishes to create long-term opportunities for its citizens.

If they were actually pitching honest investment opportunities, worthy of the term, they would have something attractive to offer legitimate business interests. At this point in time, aside from some iffy prospects in tourism, there isn't much for them to offer as incentives.

My point is, If they had in place a recovery plan that made sense, and incorporated all the aspects of economic development, then they would be able to offer the potential of creating mutually beneficial partnerships with legitimate business entities.

Just my opinion.