Puerto Plata: The police state!

Fishguy

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So, tonight in Puerto Plata there was a convoy of assorted government vehicles going around closing businesses that had plastic chairs on the sidewalk. It was quite the presence as it included vehicles from the PN, Ministry of Alcohol, Ministry of Tourism, some other ministry that I didn't recognize, as well as a flat bed full of military soldiers wielding machine guns.

They seemed to be flexing some muscle of sorts and I'd love to know the reason why. They even shut down the lady selling cerdo con yucca because she had plastic chairs on the sidewalk. Apparently they even confiscated Chalo's license as there was a big round of applause when he returned later and hung it back on the wall.

Talk about totalitarian lunacy. Having plastic chairs on the sidewalk is now a crime? Was it their reaction to 27 of their comrades being arrested for drug offences, or are they trying to destroy the Dominican way of life?

As I left PP, they had closed another road to do the same to another bar.

What gives? If Lambada or any other PP resident would care to fill in the details, I'd love to here it.
 

Eddy

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So, tonight in Puerto Plata there was a convoy of assorted government vehicles going around closing businesses that had plastic chairs on the sidewalk. It was quite the presence as it included vehicles from the PN, Ministry of Alcohol, Ministry of Tourism, some other ministry that I didn't recognize, as well as a flat bed full of military soldiers wielding machine guns.

They seemed to be flexing some muscle of sorts and I'd love to know the reason why. They even shut down the lady selling cerdo con yucca because she had plastic chairs on the sidewalk. Apparently they even confiscated Chalo's license as there was a big round of applause when he returned later and hung it back on the wall.

Talk about totalitarian lunacy. Having plastic chairs on the sidewalk is now a crime? Was it their reaction to 27 of their comrades being arrested for drug offences, or are they trying to destroy the Dominican way of life?

As I left PP, they had closed another road to do the same to another bar.

What gives? If Lambada or any other PP resident would care to fill in the details, I'd love to here it.
Wow, if they do the same in Sosua and Charamicos that for sure will not help tourism. Could be payback for having their buddies arrested.
 

mountainannie

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I heard that they did a similar sweep in Las Terrenas a month ago - mostly it was closing down businesses that had never paid taxes. There was the "best" pharmacy in town, run by a French woman from Martinique, which had been there for YEARS and never paid taxes-- which now has a big sign on the window in Spanish from the District Attorney - and other from the owner saying "closed for remodeling"

As to the street vendors etc., this may also be following the model used by Guliania when he was mayor of NYC when he cut the murder rate in half in a couple of years -he started at the bottom, ticketing panhandlers, and small illegal street sellers to clean up the streets.

As you may have been reading, the entire police force in Puerto Plata has been sacked for corruption and replaced so they are just doing a sweep up operation to pick up the trash. Should be a much safer place after they finish.

Not to worry.
 
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mountainannie

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Well it appears to be helping in LT - but the new police chief who is, I believe, a Colonel, is getting a LOT of support from the local business community- (like paying for his ticket to France for vacation, giving him a villa to stay in!) so cleaning up a town is going to take the entire town.

If there are sufficient people who want a safe place to live and a place to raise kids and will help the police fight corruption, then the efforts will succeed. If there are instead more people who think that "tourism" means putas and crack - then that is what they are gonna get.

Depends on the village. It took more than the Marshall to clean up Dodge.It took a posse as well.
 
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Lambada

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As you may have been reading, the entire police force in Puerto Plata has been sacked for corruption and replaced so they are just doing a sweep up operation to pick up the trash. Should be a much safer place after they finish. Not to worry.

Ha! Seriously, the entire police force of PP hasn't been fired. Some have, some PN including the local police chief General Calderon Efres who has been replaced by General Then (who we had before & who then went to Santiago. Now he's back.) General Then is known for 'mano duro' & last time he was the boss there were lots of barrio sweeps rounding up anyone & everyone. Generally he is supported by local business people who protested when he was moved after his term here, so they'll be happy that he is back. As well as some PN being arrested for extracting protection money from drug dealers (approx RD$15,000-RD$20,000 a month (some say each week!) from each dealer & I believe they were collecting from approx 300 dealers), some DNCD have been arrested including I believe the DNCD commandante from Sosua. Allegedly some Fiscals are also being investigated but no-one is naming names. On Thursday they dismantled PP's SWAT team & its director is under investigation. They are also investigating the staff at Fortaleza prison.

So, having arrested a lot of foot soldiers, maybe one day they'll get the 'godfathers'???? Yeah, right.

At the time when the beach fight was going on in Cabarete on the beach at Bambu last weekend, the police took those who didn't need the hospital to the Cabarete jail. Then I'm told a mob appeared to storm the jail to get their buddies out, so Cabarete police called for backup from Sosua & PP. Unfortunately PP police were unable to assist because at that time the 'investigation team' into police corruption had arrived in PP from SD and locked the police in the police station (police were pretty disgruntled about this!)
Puerto Plata Digital

You really couldn't make this stuff up. Anyway what has all this to do with Fishguy's post? I didn't see the events he witnessed (safely at home at the time) but I would agree as to muscle flexing. My hunch is that this isn't much to do with plastic chairs although that would be the nominated 'cause' for the action. What I suspect we're seeing is muscle flexing between SD & PP respective authorities. A sort of police turf war maybe? Either that or mucha espuma y poco chocolate. It eerily reminds me of the time when a team came up from SD and Fiscal Ceballos got killed in Sosua (November 2006). I wish Rocky was still posting because it'd be interesting to see if the same thought had occurred to him. Remember also that as a backdrop there is the Ministerial Conference on Illegal Drug Trafficking currently going on so the Government needs to be seen as making efforts against the drug industry.
Caribbean asks for more help with drugs - DiarioLibre.com

My guess would be that in the short term certainly in PP itself & possibly over the whole province we can expect a fair number of barrio late night roundups. This would be what General Then did before and he achieved some considerable success with lowering crime levels when he was appointed the first time. If anyone is asking my advice and doesn't consider it too cynical or over protective :rolleyes: :cheeky: it would be to ensure you are not in the wrong place at the wrong time. Late night visits to PP downtown barrios would not be advisable!
 
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DominicanBilly

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Police State

Tonight on his way in to work my security guard was stopped. Actually they stopped the motoconcho to check his ownership. He had all the paperwork but that didn't stop the them from arresting them both.

My wife went over and talked to the boss to explain he was needed on the job. To no avail, she was told he would be released in the morning. So she went back to my restaurant and cooked him a good meal. When she brought the food back to the police station they commented on how good a meal it was. :cheeky:

They took it from her but she didn't see if he got it. I guess we'll find out tomorrow if he got the meal. :ermm:I read where they fired 25 police, it appears we are no better off than before. They are so inept is is comical. They can't tell the crooks from the workers and even when it is pointer out they refuse to concede they are wrong.
 

wishingiwasthere

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Sorry to make light ? but your wife?s cooking IS REALLY good! Maybe the police heard about your kitchen!

I hope he is out of there by now!
Just as an aside - as i remember it - i thought your wife was quite well connected? It dont sound too great out there at the moment.
 

DominicanBilly

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Sorry to make light ? but your wife?s cooking IS REALLY good! Maybe the police heard about your kitchen!

I hope he is out of there by now!
Just as an aside - as i remember it - i thought your wife was quite well connected? It dont sound too great out there at the moment.

Yes her brother-in-law (a major federal force) was here last week and involved in the sacking of those 25 police. But he left on Friday so there was no help there.

We paid 1,000 pesos this morning (a bribe) to let him out or else he could stay until Monday and the judge would let him out without having to pay a peso. All they told Wanda was "he was a person we were investigating". Just "BS"

As a second story on this "round up". A plumber had sent his helper to pick up a pump motor he had repaired to install in a clients cistern. On the way back the police arrested the kid. The Plumber came to the police station to get the kid and the motor. Police said you can't have the pump motor until you produce the bill of sale. The pump was 10 years old and any record of it's purchase was "long gone".

Great police work.
 

Lambada

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All they told Wanda was "he was a person we were investigating". Just "BS"

Is the conchista still inside? Just following their logic here: they stop conchista for papers, he is covered - I assume also he was wearing helmet? They detain conchista & passenger (your guard) then claim your guard to be 'a person they were investigating'. So if they weren't 'investigating' conchista why did they detain him? Particularly if he had committed no infractions. As to your guard, if they knew who he was, I hope this isn't anything to do with a potentially vindictive previous tenant of yours........;) just musing here.

For the benefit of non-residents, police patrols outside baseball stadium are to check ownership of vehicles & illegal arms. Rarely are they drug searches (they go into the barrios for that). Anyone picked up on Friday or Saturday usually has to wait for Monday for release, as DB said, unless sweetener is produced. Friday tends to be a favourite time because sweeteners are more likely to be produced in lieu of 2 full days inside.

Almost makes me wonder whether we ought to use this thread to notify each other as to locations of police patrols, particularly on Friday & Saturday evenings, so people can find alternative routes? At least for the next few weeks when I'm guessing we're going to have a lot more of this.
 

Lambada

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There was a 'blitz' Friday as Fishguy reported & another Saturday. Here is a newspaper report & a blog report:

GENERAL THEN ATACA DELINCUENCIA Y APRIETA DUE?OS COLMADONES

sacandomelao: Escobita nueva barre bien

'Solo esperamos que los operativos y redadas sean realizadas dentro del marco de derecho de cada ciudadano, y no con el famoso se?alamiento de "ven tu, tu y tu", sin ver quiz?s el perfil sospechoso que puedan tener los detenidos, pues muchas veces durante la pasada gesti?n del General Then, tomaron preso a humildes trabajadores que regresaban de los hoteles, a?n portando sus identificaciones'.

They need to be careful about this, otherwise the community will become polarised (those for and those against the General).
 

Berzin

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As to the street vendors etc., this may also be following the model used by Giuliani when he was mayor of NYC when he cut the murder rate in half in a couple of years -he started at the bottom, ticketing panhandlers, and small illegal street sellers to clean up the streets.


Get your facts straight. Giuliani had nothing to do with NYC's dip in crime.

1) The "Safe Streets Safe City" program was instituted by his predecessor, David Dinkins.

2) This program was implemented by the NYPD who were out there doing their job out on the streets, NOT Giuliani. Give the cops the credit where it deserves.

3) Crime waves are cyclical in nature, just like Bear and Bull markets on Wall Street. NYC had just endured the crack epidemic and the murder rate all over the country began to dip at around the same time, for many different reasons. There were a few exceptions like some areas where there is a higher propensity for gang violence than in NYC. There are many reasons for dips and increases in urban crime that cannot be taken out of context.

4) Panhandlers and illegal street vendors are quality of life issues that have nothing to do with the murder rate. The two things are driven by totally different and disparate forces.

So please stop drinking the Kool-Aid and do some research before posting comments that are not true.
 
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Markf128

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The community is already polarized. There is a major abuse of power in the DR starting from a street cop all the way to the top. I will say that within all this mess there are many exceptions to the rule, but at the end abuse of authority by public servants is part of the culture in DR. None the less, things are changing for the better, yet any progress made can rapidly be retracted in times of crisis.
 
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Get your facts straight. Giuliani had nothing to do with NYC's dip in crime.

1) The "Safe Streets Safe City" program was instituted by his predecessor, David Dinkins.

2) This program was implemented by the NYPD who were out there doing their job out on the streets, NOT Giuliani. Give the cops the credit where it deserves.

3) Crime waves are cyclical in nature, just like Bear and Bull markets on Wall Street. NYC had just endured the crack epidemic and the murder rate all over the country began to dip at around the same time, for many different reasons. There were a few exceptions like some areas where there is a higher propensity for gang violence than in NYC. There are many reasons for dips and increases in urban crime that cannot be taken out of context.

4) Panhandlers and illegal street vendors are quality of life issues that have nothing to do with the murder rate. The two things are driven by totally different and disparate forces.

So please stop drinking the Kool-Aid and do some research before posting comments that are not true.

Hey wait a minute since when are moderators the know-all to the world. First: Why do you castigate a poster for expressing what he or she may know as truth when what they doing is participating in the conversation. Kool aid was not required. No need to ridicule them like you just did.
Secondly: I'm born, and raised in New York and Giuliani I hate to say was very responsible for the drop in crime. As a District Attorney and with federal help he went after organized crime very heavily and was the primary point man in controlling the Mafia as we knew it. He cleaned the Jacob Javitts Center of extortion and put alot of mobster behind bars.
Thirdly: He gave the Police card-blanc to arrest or summons everyone from panhandlers to drinking from an open beer on the street.
When it first started the only ones that were not happy were those that enjoyed drinking in the streets, or hanging in front of bodegas drinking and playing dominoes.
But trust me there were alot of people happy about this police type state he initiated. It certainly controlled things, because if I remember correctly, you couldn't put on Gazel sunglasses, Kangol caps, new sneakers or chains or you'd be robbed point blank. It was just as bad if not worse than DR. Good kids going home from school were getting killed on the train for their sneakers. Today you can walk around with your brand new iPhone o Ipod and have no issues.

But getting back to my original point, if you're a moderator, moderate don't berate.
 
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BushBaby

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THANK you Berzin for helping to take this important subject (well for US in Puerto Plata it is an important subject) TOTALLY off topic.

Might I suggest you ask the moderator of this forum to delete anything NOT RELEVENT to the Policing Policies of the DR from this thread (That includes YOURS, Richard Alberto's & MINE!!). ~ Grahame.
 
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THANK you Berzin for helping to take this important subject (well for US in Puerto Plata it is an important subject) TOTALLY off topic.

Might I suggest you ask the moderator of this forum to delete anything NOT RELEVENT to the Policing Policies of the DR from this thread (That includes YOURS, Richard Alberto's & MINE!!). ~ Grahame.

With all due respect but who are you to ask that my post be deleted? My post is actually within the topic of a Police state and is relevant to the post. In the thought process I wanted to elaborate on how a strong show of force may be required in order to stem the flow of crime in the area. If the Genral Then has been respected by business owners and residents alike perhaps he knows how to initiate the required controls.

Obviously, there will be some bad calls and arrests but all in all, it may be important in the overall picture.
 

BushBaby

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Sorry if I offended Richard Alberto but to answer your question seriously I am someone who would like to see this topic discussed IN RELATION TO THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC. Your subsequent post does that in explaining 'The Why & how' but the former did not - hence my suggestion to the moderator.

Berzin's outburst to protect his beloved NYC did not in ANY way relate to the Dominican Republic. I am well experienced in having posts deleted for supporting &/or disagreeing with people who go off topic & consequently felt you would understand the need for the call I made. I AGREE TOTALLY with your remonstration let it be said! ~ Grahame.
 
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